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Old April 16th, 2012, 11:31 AM   #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
They don't want to consider a retrofit of the train. Which means newer trains on HSL-Zuid within 20 years.
Nah, sooner than that. Starting from somewhere in 2014 we will be seeing Eurostar's Velaro e320 on the HSL-Zuid between the Thalysses and (hopefully) V250. Somewhere in 2016 Deutsche Bahn will join in on the fun with the (much delayed) Velaro D.

In the following years, the HSL-Zuid will be one of the lines with the most variations in rolling stock and liveries: Thalys PBA and PBKA in red, Fyra V160 and/or V250 in white/pink/red, Eurostar with 400 meter Velaro in grey/yellow and DB with Velaro in white. Colourful to say the least!
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Old April 16th, 2012, 06:58 PM   #602
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I was thinking maybe a service should be profitable: Amsterdam-Koln-Frankfurt non-stop via HSL-Zuis, HSL-3, Aachen, Koln
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Old April 16th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #603
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We can compare the current schedules from the ICE trains and the Thalys, to come up with an estimate travel time on this route. You only have to look at the Amsterdam Köln - section.

The current schedules, that aren't non stop:

direct:
Amsterdam - Köln: 2:38

via Belgium:
Amsterdam - Antwerp: 1:12
Brussels - Köln: 1:52

Considering that the Antwerpen - Leuven (shortest route in Belgium) is longer and slower then Brussel - Leuven the current timing is well over 3 hours. This means that even non stop this would be significantly longer then a non stop connection taking the direct route.

If you want to have a non-stop connection, the current route is still the best route. Not that there actually is a market for this train, but we will overlook that this time.
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Old April 16th, 2012, 11:12 PM   #604
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I've found some other interesting possibility: introducing Fyra trains on a Den Haag-Rotterdam-Antwerpen-Liège-Maastricht route!

I'll explain.

As from today, if you counted only driving time, Thalys + ICE take 117 minutes between Rotterdam Centraal and Liège-Guiglemins via Bruxelles-Midi.

If hypothetically the spur to Bruxelles Midi were omitted and trains running through Antwerpen-Liège, that could be reduced to realistic 104 minutes.

Then, with additional 22 minutes needed to ride the crap line Liege-Maastricht, it would still be only 129 minutes between Rotterdam and Maastricht via HSL-4 and Liège. This mean a train could connect Rotterdam and Maastricht faster travelling 60% longer via HSLs in Belgium, in much more comfort of slab ballastless tracks and perfectly shaped smooth curves.

This train would also guarantee a fast connection between Antwerpen and Liege, 2nd and 3rd biggest Belgian metro areas.

=============

Another Fyra service could be introduced for express trains like some Groningen-Amsterdam train via the new Hanzelijn calling only in Zwolle and nowhere else.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 12:50 AM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I've found some other interesting possibility: introducing Fyra trains on a Den Haag-Rotterdam-Antwerpen-Liège-Maastricht route!

I'll explain.

As from today, if you counted only driving time, Thalys + ICE take 117 minutes between Rotterdam Centraal and Liège-Guiglemins via Bruxelles-Midi.

If hypothetically the spur to Bruxelles Midi were omitted and trains running through Antwerpen-Liège, that could be reduced to realistic 104 minutes.

Then, with additional 22 minutes needed to ride the crap line Liege-Maastricht, it would still be only 129 minutes between Rotterdam and Maastricht via HSL-4 and Liège. This mean a train could connect Rotterdam and Maastricht faster travelling 60% longer via HSLs in Belgium, in much more comfort of slab ballastless tracks and perfectly shaped smooth curves.
That's only 7 minutes faster than via Eindhoven. I doubt people would be willing to pay Thalys - Level fares for such small a gain of time.

Quote:
This train would also guarantee a fast connection between Antwerpen and Liege, 2nd and 3rd biggest Belgian metro areas.
But who in Antwerpen wants to go to Liège? :-) Don't forget that for all practical purposes Belgium is actually two countries.
There are probably more people travelling between Antwerpen and Rotterdam then between Antwerpen and Liège.

A train I would like to see is Antwerpen - Breda - Eindhoven - Venlo - Köln. With a clever timetable this train can feed people both to the HST networks in Antwerpen and in Köln.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 01:15 AM   #606
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No need for that, as Fyra trains will already connect Antwerpen to Breda.

Also, AFAIK, a Den Haag-Köln international train (actually an extension of the Venlo service) flopped and was withdrawn 5 or 6 years ago.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 07:44 AM   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
No need for that, as Fyra trains will already connect Antwerpen to Breda.
But there is potential for a good service from Antwerpen to Eindhoven. Of course they could do something you strongly disapprove of, and have the Antwerpen - Breda trains connect with train to Tilburg and Eindhoven in Breda...

Quote:
Also, AFAIK, a Den Haag-Köln international train (actually an extension of the Venlo service) flopped and was withdrawn 5 or 6 years ago.
That train has existed for decades. NS has indicated that it is interested in returning it.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 09:15 AM   #608
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But who in Antwerpen wants to go to Liège? :-) Don't forget that for all practical purposes Belgium is actually two countries.
There are probably more people travelling between Antwerpen and Rotterdam then between Antwerpen and Liège.
Probably more than you think. It is true that the rail service between the
two places isn't worth much - it's much faster to travel via Brussels. But
then, political people at the head of SNCB do all what they can to break
all relationships between the two parts of the country. On the other hand,
the highway between Liege and Antwerp is jammed every day...
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Old April 17th, 2012, 10:42 AM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Also, AFAIK, a Den Haag-Köln international train (actually an extension of the Venlo service) flopped and was withdrawn 5 or 6 years ago.
The Den Haag - Köln international service was cut back to a Eindhoven - Köln services mid 1990s before it was completely withdrawn in 1999.

The recent interest in reinstating a fast the Eindhoven - Köln / Ruhr area service has mostly come from the local governments and not so much from the NS.
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Old April 17th, 2012, 11:07 AM   #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Probably more than you think. It is true that the rail service between the
two places isn't worth much - it's much faster to travel via Brussels. But
then, political people at the head of SNCB do all what they can to break
all relationships between the two parts of the country.
I doubt the NMBS is trying to break apart the country. They are however doing the country a large disservice by ignoring the reality that the mobility needs in the North and the South are very different. It's about time the regions got involved in running trains too. That some suburban lines don't even run on weekends is a disgrace.

Quote:
On the other hand, the highway between Liege and Antwerp is jammed every day...
That highway is indeed quite busy, but I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of vehicles that goes all the way from Antwerpen to Liège are trucks...
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Old April 17th, 2012, 02:12 PM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I doubt the NMBS is trying to break apart the country.
They certainly can't achieve that alone, but they nevertheless do the best
they can to isolate the two parts of the country from each other. Look
at our railway map history and you'll quick realize that most of the lines
that once linked the two parts of the country together have disappeared.
Even today the Liège-Hasselt line is still regularly threatened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
That some suburban lines don't even run on weekends is a disgrace.
Problem of availability of drivers. Years after years there have been no
recruitment of train drivers. Now the baby boom effect is in full swing and
the SNCB driving school has barely enough capacity to cover the age
attrition losses. It will take years before they can rebuild enough workforce
to cover all the needs. Only then they will be able to increase the week-end
services...

Last edited by MarcVD; April 18th, 2012 at 02:31 PM.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
On the other hand,
the highway between Liege and Antwerp is jammed every day...
That's not really accurate: all highways around Antwerp are jammed every day, it has nothing to do with traffic coming to/from Liege.
the E313 highway is still on 1 lane in each direction at Boirs, and there is never too much traffic on that 1 lane, so that can't be the reason for the traffic jams in Antwerp.

The reason for the lack of connections between the north and the south of the country is not that the NMBS is trying to break apart the country, it's more likely there is a lack of demand to travel in those directions.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 11:11 AM   #613
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MPs concerned about high-speed rail line costs

From Dutch English-News website

Quote:
Parliament is concerned about the cost of saving the financially troubled high-speed line between Amsterdam and the Belgian border and has asked transport minister Melanie Schultz van Haegen for clarification.

According to figures given to parliament by the minister in the spring budget, the shortfall is €400m. However, the parliamentary research office says this should be €1.7bn, reports Trouw.

CDA MP Sander de Rouwe told parliament on Tuesday evening the file on the high-speed line is hopelessly outdated and this is giving MPs a feeling of 'where there's smoke, there's fire'.

Parliament asked Schultz van Haegen to clarify just how much is needed to save the project from bankruptcy, says Trouw. She replied that the figures she gave them are correct. The confusion comes because several sets of figures were listed in the same table in the spring budget.

Last year, the minister said the high-speed route to the Belgian border was proving expensive to operate and had failed to attract enough passengers. And NS Hispeed director Maarten Spaargaarden admitted it might take 15 years before the route made a profit.
I think they need faster trains to collect more use fees.

For instance, some non-stop Paris-Rotterdam-Amsterdam trains.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 11:29 AM   #614
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This is just about the high speed part on Dutch soil. One of the reasons it's not doing well, is because the line isn't actually operational just yet. Besides the Thalys service to Brussels/Paris, there is no national highspeed service on it, because the AnsaldoBreda trains still aren't running. Now there are only 160 km/h trains running between Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Breda.

Once they finally have 250 km/h service between Amsterdam-Rotterdam-Breda, and later on to Antwerp and Brussels, things are sure to get better. Sadly because of all the delays, the Dutch tax payer will still be left with a big shortfall.
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Old June 14th, 2012, 09:17 AM   #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
For instance, some non-stop Paris-Rotterdam-Amsterdam trains.
Not stopping in Antwerpen and Brussel will not save a lot of time, but it would cost them passengers...
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Old June 14th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
A train I would like to see is Antwerpen - Breda - Eindhoven - Venlo - Köln. With a clever timetable this train can feed people both to the HST networks in Antwerpen and in Köln.
The easier way of connecting Antwerpen and Köln would be to connect Antwerpen with HSL 2: Antwerpen - Liege - Aachen - Köln

A connection Antwerp - Breda - Eindhoven would make sense as well
As well as an extension of the Dutch Fyra to Eindhoven and a The Hague - Rotterdam - (Breda) - Eindhoven - (Venlo) - Dusseldorf service.

Therefore the Netherlands should upgrade the Breda - Eindhoven
(The track from Venlo to Viersen should be doubled as well)
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 09:04 PM   #617
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Another FYRA video

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Old September 22nd, 2012, 09:20 PM   #618
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That train does not run into Belgium yet carrying paying passengers.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 09:34 PM   #619
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Apparently there are some people complaining for the silliest reasons against V250, like the fact some seats don't have direct window view (which is the case of many TGVs configs as well).
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 10:34 PM   #620
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Apparently for you just don't agreeing with you it's "silly"...
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