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Old January 18th, 2013, 08:52 AM   #741
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There's still Thalys and the current loco-hauled temporary Fyra using the high speed line.

It's a waste of money if it would happen, but lots of smart people have been advising against building HSL-Zuid from the moment it entered the planning phase. Many travellers aren't willing to pay a premium, lots of people aren't benefited by the HSL either.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 09:37 AM   #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
Is something said by a lot of people, especially on news-sites.. Buy new trains, that fixes the problem..

Only forgetting that new trains take 3 yrs to begin service...

What could be done:

Get some I11 cars from the NMBS. (NS could give lend the Benelux coaches to the NMBS to compensate in the mean time).
Start with these cars and the TraXX loco's on the HSL line. Fasttrack the aproval of NMBS series 18 for use in the Netherlands. Then use those.
That ought to make a 200kph service over the HSL possible quickly.

Other options: See if Thalys can be increased to once an hour or even more.

Then start looking around for new trains. Stadler apparently has a 250kph capable set on the drawing board...
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Old January 18th, 2013, 09:43 AM   #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
It's a waste of money if it would happen, but lots of smart people have been advising against building HSL-Zuid from the moment it entered the planning phase.
I wonder if the following route would not have been a lot better: Antwerpen - Breda - Utrecht.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 11:32 AM   #744
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Connecting Antwerpen and Rotterdam was basically the whole point of the exercise.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 01:23 PM   #745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I wonder if the following route would not have been a lot better: Antwerpen - Breda - Utrecht.
Studies made on a possible Breda-Utrecht link (regular, not high-speed) found it too big in relate to estimated potential ridership.

================

I don't think Thalys has spare trains to increase frequency.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
What could be done:

Get some I11 cars from the NMBS. (NS could give lend the Benelux coaches to the NMBS to compensate in the mean time).
Start with these cars and the TraXX loco's on the HSL line. Fasttrack the aproval of NMBS series 18 for use in the Netherlands. Then use those.
That ought to make a 200kph service over the HSL possible quickly.

Other options: See if Thalys can be increased to once an hour or even more.

Then start looking around for new trains. Stadler apparently has a 250kph capable set on the drawing board...
I believe, don't pin me down on this, that I11 cars are to wide for the Dutch net
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Old January 18th, 2013, 01:39 PM   #747
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That's what I thought. They would trim the platforms in the Netherlands.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 02:15 PM   #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_scotty View Post
I believe, don't pin me down on this, that I11 cars are to wide for the Dutch net
As far as I know, SNCB I11 cars are built to the RIC spec and are therefore
able to circulate on the whole european network.

But there is no chance to get them as a replacement for the V250 sets,
because they are all needed for the 200 km/h service between Brussels
and Liege.

Re-instating the former Benelux service and increasing the Thalys frequency
looks like the best option...
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Old January 18th, 2013, 02:24 PM   #749
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I11 coaches are RIC compliant indeed, thus should be able to operate everywhere. In fact, the I11 rolling stock has already been on the Dutch railway network - they served on the (now defunct) Maastricht-Brussels-Express.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 02:51 PM   #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
I11 coaches are RIC compliant indeed, thus should be able to operate everywhere. In fact, the I11 rolling stock has already been on the Dutch railway network - they served on the (now defunct) Maastricht-Brussels-Express.
Yes. You can see a picture of the markings of those cars here:
http://www.train-miniatures.net/docu....html#marquage
The NS network is clearly indicated. So Maastricht was not a "special case"
(as it often happens with border stations) but it's indeed for the whole dutch
network.

The confusion probably came from other car series, like M5 and M6, which are
indeed too wide for other european networks. SNCB has a larger loading gauge than all its neighbors.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 03:31 PM   #751
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This just in: DVIS, the Belgian railway safety authority, has just banned the V250 from operating in revenue services. Test runs are still authorized. The ban will remain in place until SNCB can prove that the train is reliable.

Source (in Dutch): Gazet van Antwerpen
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Old January 18th, 2013, 03:46 PM   #752
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Reliability is something different than safety (in principle, unless it concerns reliability of safety-critical components).
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Old January 18th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #753
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Press release from Fyra website

Quote:
yra service suspended due to adverse weather conditions
Due to adverse weather conditions and resulting damage to Fyra rolling stock, Fyra train services between Belgium and The Netherlands have been suspended for safety reasons. Fyra strongly advises travellers to postpone their journeys to a later date.

As an alternative, Fyra tickets are valid on trains from Brussels to Antwerp, from where a bus service is operating to Breda or Roosdendaal in The Netherlands (and vice versa). From these stations travellers can get trains to their final destinations.

Fyra tickets for the suspended train services on 17 and 18 January will be refunded free of charge or can be changed to a later travel date (dates may be subject to availability) without incurring costs.

Fyra apologises for the inconvenience and thanks travellers for their understanding.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 05:03 PM   #754
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That's information about yesterday's and today's cancellations. There's nothing about the ban yet.

Update: the ban will remain in place at least until monday end of day, but it might remain in effect longer than that. NOS
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Last edited by AlexNL; January 18th, 2013 at 05:35 PM.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Then start looking around for new trains. Stadler apparently has a 250kph capable set on the drawing board...
They should rather stick to regional trains since their first HSR attempt can only be considered a major failure.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 08:20 PM   #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
As far as I know, SNCB I11 cars are built to the RIC spec and are therefore
able to circulate on the whole european network.

But there is no chance to get them as a replacement for the V250 sets,
because they are all needed for the 200 km/h service between Brussels
and Liege.
I don't think NMBS needs 20 rakes for IC-A and IC-O. And I do see them on other services as well.

Quote:
Re-instating the former Benelux service and increasing the Thalys frequency
looks like the best option...
It would be nice if the new Benelux would use the high speed line though. We've been waiting for that for quite some time....
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Old January 18th, 2013, 08:21 PM   #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
They should rather stick to regional trains since their first HSR attempt can only be considered a major failure.
What are you referring too? I am not aware of any recent delivery by Stadler that one could consider a "major failure".
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Old January 18th, 2013, 08:31 PM   #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
It's a waste of money if it would happen, but lots of smart people have been advising against building HSL-Zuid from the moment it entered the planning phase. Many travellers aren't willing to pay a premium, lots of people aren't benefited by the HSL either.
Reduce prices, obtain reliable high quality trains and run them regularly. If the line afterwards is still under performing I'll be the first one to agree with you.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 10:19 PM   #759
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These complaints about prices of Fyra are, at least temporarily, bogus.

Fares bought up to the day before cost only €25, and they have that jump-on ticket that costs still only € 39.

So no room for prices complaint about that.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 10:48 PM   #760
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I disagree with you. Since I am a youngster holding a "Voordeelurenabonnement", I could buy a "Superdagretour": I could do Breda - Antwerpen and back for something like € 17,70 (not sure about the exact price). Prices have gone up significantly since - Rotterdam - Antwerp costs € 23 (supersaver) for a single trip. That doesn't even include the trip to Rotterdam.
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