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Old January 19th, 2013, 12:03 AM   #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
These complaints about prices of Fyra are, at least temporarily, bogus.

Fares bought up to the day before cost only €25, and they have that jump-on ticket that costs still only € 39.

So no room for prices complaint about that.
That's still very expensive for train that doesn't ride.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 12:20 AM   #762
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I don't think NMBS needs 20 rakes for IC-A and IC-O. And I do see them on other services as well
There are 163 cars which are all engaged in formations of 12. So there
are certainly not 20 rakes in use. Even with the few I10 which have been
added after having been upgraded for 200 km/h.

And no, they are not used anywhere else than on services using the L2
between Leuven and Liege.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 01:29 AM   #763
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Out of curiosity: are all 12 cars really necessary? Or are they there just for rush hour demands and are they mostly empty during off-peak services?
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Old January 19th, 2013, 03:04 AM   #764
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But "superdagretour" were special tickets, not regular fares. You can still travel via Roosendaal.

It is like complaining about those dagkaarten that were abolished in Netherlands last December...
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Old January 19th, 2013, 09:54 AM   #765
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And no, they are not used anywhere else than on services using the L2
between Leuven and Liege.
There used to be I11 on used on Antwerpen - Oostende. So that's changed.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 11:54 AM   #766
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What are you referring too? I am not aware of any recent delivery by Stadler that one could consider a "major failure".
The Kiss trains for Austria's Westbahn are.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 01:55 PM   #767
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The Kiss trains for Austria's Westbahn are.
In what way are they a major failure?
I am only aware of problems with the doors on the new high speed line, when they are crossing another high speed train. I would not call that a major failure, as I'm sure it will be fixed soon.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 01:56 PM   #768
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I think we can all agree that the problems that the Stadler Kiss Westbahn trains are nothing compared to the problems of the AnsaldoBreda V250 Fyra trains. Calling it a "major failure" in this thread doesn't really make a big impression, we can only wish that we only had those problems with our Fyra trains.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 02:48 PM   #769
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The V250 project has not been having the smoothest sailing (!), but it is not that big of a failure. For instance, the ICE (1) was indeed a flawed project that killed more than 100 because of a faulty brake disc design... But even on my optimism I'm starting to think AnsaldoBreda will not have a future as an Intercity/high-speed train manufacturer
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Old January 19th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #770
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What are you referring too? I am not aware of any recent delivery by Stadler that one could consider a "major failure".
Stadler let down the ODEG by delayed delivery of the KISS train-sets.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 04:58 PM   #771
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Stadler let down the ODEG by delayed delivery of the KISS train-sets.
Stadler was not late in delivering the trains. It was the approval process that somehow got delayed.

And again, there is a difference between "teething problems" and "small delays in delivery/approval", which happen to all rolling stock producers, and the gross incompetence Ansaldo-Breda has shown...
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Old January 19th, 2013, 05:20 PM   #772
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Quote:
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Stadler let down the ODEG by delayed delivery of the KISS train-sets.
The problems with the KISS trains for ODEG are related to the homologation, Stadler saw similar problems with the FLIRT trains for Eurobahn: both EBA and IVW caused delays in admission because of some missing documents.

A recent rolling stock 'disaster' is the Bombardier-built TALENT 2.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 08:14 PM   #773
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Some people are now comparing the issues with V250 with problems of commissioning the IC4 in Denmark, when they are totally different!

=====================

Question: could, theoretically, the ICEs used on Amsterdam-Koln service also be used to travel on HSL-Zuid and Belgium?
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Old January 19th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #774
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Quote:
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The V250 project has not been having the smoothest sailing (!), but it is not that big of a failure. For instance, the ICE (1) was indeed a flawed project that killed more than 100 because of a faulty brake disc design... But even on my optimism I'm starting to think AnsaldoBreda will not have a future as an Intercity/high-speed train manufacturer
The Eschede ICE dissaster was not caused by a faulty disk brake design but because the wheels had a new design with a rubber damping ring between the steel core of the wheel and the steel running tire that turned out to be very prone to cracks. Together with a substandard maintenance/inspection by the DB, who should have noticed the cracks on both sides of the tire this terrible accident could have happened.

But since the trains have kept running with traditional wheels after the accident, even though not completely unproblematic it can't be seen as a complete failures.

With Belgium now close to cancel their part of the V250 order it does seem to be the end of the line for this train, because that would practically mean that the NS sets will also never be used again on the services to Brussels. I would consider that a complete failure. And with the string of failures and major problems with other AnsaldoBreda trains it's not that strange AnsaldoBreda has gotten a bad reputation that now works against them with the V250 problems.


And yes the ICEs can be used on the HSL Zuid, I believe they did do test runs with them on the line some years ago. But that's not likely since the 3 NS owned sets run in the ICE3M pool together with the DB sets. The NS cannot just pull them out of their to use them on the HSL Zuid. Just like they can't use the 2 NS owned Thalys sets.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 08:54 PM   #775
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Quote:
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In what way are they a major failure?
I am only aware of problems with the doors on the new high speed line, when they are crossing another high speed train. I would not call that a major failure, as I'm sure it will be fixed soon.
They're not pressure tight either and therefore highly uncomfortable in tunnels not to speak about the doors, which could have killed people if it wasn't for some small bolts to hold them back.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 09:12 PM   #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
Stadler was not late in delivering the trains. It was the approval process that somehow got delayed.

And again, there is a difference between "teething problems" and "small delays in delivery/approval", which happen to all rolling stock producers, and the gross incompetence Ansaldo-Breda has shown...
Trains were delivered on time, but they didn't meet EBA's requirements is not what I'd consider a delivery on time.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 09:28 PM   #777
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It just shows that all manufactures their fair share of problems, especially since trains have become much more complicated with all the electronics that are used nowadays that are usually the cause for approval delays.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 09:33 PM   #778
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I hope HSA can be saved, even if it has to order more trains! Else, NS and SNCB will be under pressure to order sub-par rolling stock to operate services on HSL Zuid/4, without hte distinctive features of Fyra, and that will set train travel 20 years back.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 09:36 PM   #779
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Fyra put an English travel advice on its website, finally (translation of the Dutch one actually)

Quote:
Fyra service temporarily suspended: travel advice for 19, 20 and 21 January
Due to adverse weather conditions and resulting damage to Fyra rolling stock, Fyra train services between Belgium and The Netherlands have been suspended until at least 21 January for safety reasons.

Fyra strongly advises travellers to postpone their journeys to a later date. Fyra tickets for the suspended train services will be refunded free of charge or can be changed to a later travel date (dates may be subject to availability) without incurring costs.

As an alternative, Fyra tickets are valid on trains from Brussels to Antwerp, from where a bus service is operating to Breda or Roosendaal in The Netherlands (and vice versa). From these stations travellers can get trains to their final destinations. Please take into account, however, that this alternative will result in longer journey times.

Fyra apologises for the inconvenience and thanks travellers for their understanding.
Since it's late 19th already, I think they will resume runs on 22nd. Hopefully.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #780
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Quote:
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Stadler was not late in delivering the trains. It was the approval process that somehow got delayed.
Of course they are late in delivering these train-sets. Stadler offered ready-to-use train-sets by the end of last year after all. These train-sets, however, just are not ready. Whether this failure seems minor compared to Ansaldo-Breda's short-comings is rather academic. The ODEG was forced to run botched-up second hand rolling stock. Pretty much the opposite to what they were promised by Stadler.
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