THE NETHERLANDS | High Speed Rail

[Momo1435]

Not before December 2009.

[Mauritz]

Originally Posted by sergiogiorgini

But isn't that much ado about nothing? There are no high-speed tracks between The Hague and Rotterdam anyway. Unless the The Hague/Brussels service won't stop in Rotterdam, there isn't much to gain except perhaps to create the illusion of a high-speed connection between the two cities.

That is not really the point, it's about a High Speed service, not tracks.

The distance between the two cities is too small to make use of a high speed track. There are no high speed tracks between Schiphol and Amsterdam either but we are not expecting people to change trains in Schiphol for Amsterdam. Again too small a distance for high speed track to be of any use.

One of the major benefits of this type of high speed transport (over Maglev for instance) is that the last few kilometres can be travelled using existing infrastructure to existing stations. And that is precisely what is being done on routes like Schiphol - Amsterdam or Rotterdam - The Hague.

I can imagine there is a fairly healthy and growing market for a The Hague - Brussels high speed service just among politicians, civil servants, lobbyists etc. Brussels is the seat of the EU and NATO, among others. The Hague is the seat of Dutch Government, the International Criminal Court, the International Court of Justice, the Permanent Court of Arbitration and Europol, among others. I can imagine a high speed service which only stops in Rotterdam and Antwerp would be immensely popular.

[Slagathor]

Originally Posted by Mauritz

I can imagine there is a fairly healthy and growing market for a The Hague - Brussels high speed service just among politicians, civil servants, lobbyists etc. Brussels is the seat of the EU and NATO, among others. The Hague is the seat of Dutch Government, the International Criminal Court, the International Court of Justice, the Permanent Court of Arbitration and Europol, among others. I can imagine a high speed service which only stops in Rotterdam and Antwerp would be immensely popular.

Fyra will service The Hague - Brussels. I expect it to become quite successful indeed, for the reasons you mention.

[sergiogiorgini]

Hmm, point taken, although according to almighty Wikipedia, The Hague is only slated for this service:

"8 trains per day: Den Haag Centraal – Rotterdam Centraal – Breda – Noorderkempen – Antwerpen Centraal – Mechelen – Brussels Central – Brussels South."

Which would be that all-in-one compromise line to please The Hague as well as the "beetroot stations" along the route, I suppose. Still, that many stops... Not exactly ideal, is it.

[Slagathor]

Still a hell of a lot faster than the current link. Today, the Beneluxtrain takes 2 hours and 6 minutes to get from The Hague HS to Brussels Central. With the Fyra, it will take 1 hour and 18 minutes!

But yeah, nobody wants to stop at Noorderkempen But then, The Hague has fast train and subway connections with Rotterdam Central Station, which you must bear in mind. People from The Hague could easily get on a Thalys or faster Fyra at Rotterdam CS.

[hoosier]

Originally Posted by Kaasbroodje

Look what I've found

Imagine if all of those lines were true 300 km/h high speed rail.

[Kaasbroodje]

Yeah Noorderkempen has absolutely no use being in the The Hague - Brussels service. That also counts for Mechelen and maybe even for Brussels-Central. Noorderkempen has already an IC connection with Antwerp so why let a highspeedtrain stop in the middle of nowhere?

[Slagathor]

Because we insisted on running the thing through Breda. The Belgians wanted to go via Roosendaal. They made the most of it.

[Thermo]

No the best looking train imo...

This Fyra will be the Dutch/Belgian highspeed train. From their website:

The train is a joint venture between the Belgian railway company, NMBS/SNCB, and the Dutch NS Hispeed

The Dutch topicstarter obviously "forgot" to mention that.............

[Slagathor]

Do us all a favor, look into who paid what percentage of the construction costs of this thing.

[Thermo]

Doesn't change a thing.

For example Thalys is a joint French/Belgian/German/Dutch project. Although the capital of the company is held 62% by the SNCF, 28% by the NMBS/SNCB and 10% by the DB. No NS.

The NS officially has only 2 Thalys trains. The statute of the company is Belgian and the HQ is in Brussels.

But that doens't change the fact that Thalys is a French/Belgian/Dutch project. Same story for this Fyra.

Sad the Dutch want all the credit for this project. A bit childish if you ask me.

[IcyUrmel]

Originally Posted by Thermo

But that doens't change the fact that Thalys is a French/Belgian/Dutch project. Same story for this Fyra.

Sad the Dutch want all the credit for this project. A bit childish if you ask me.

Says the one who forgot (?) Germany in the sentence before...

[Thermo]

Originally Posted by IcyUrmel

Says the one who forgot (?) Germany in the sentence before...

Look at my first sentence

There's a difference between forgetting something and not telling something (deliberately).

[Slagathor]

Originally Posted by Thermo

Doesn't change a thing.

For example Thalys is a joint French/Belgian/German/Dutch project. Although the capital of the company is held 62% by the SNCF, 28% by the NMBS/SNCB and 10% by the DB. No NS.

The NS officially has only 2 Thalys trains. The statute of the company is Belgian and the HQ is in Brussels.

But that doens't change the fact that Thalys is a French/Belgian/Dutch project. Same story for this Fyra.

Sad the Dutch want all the credit for this project. A bit childish if you ask me.

No, the reason I urged you to look into that is so we could put up some hard statistics on this page and be done with it. I can just sense another Belgium vs Holland discussion coming and I can't stand those. They're so pointless.

[Teach]

I can just sense another Belgium vs Holland discussion coming and I can't stand those.

Very simple solution in that case: just admit that Thermo is right in Fyra being Dutch-Belgian, not just Dutch, something you know very well, and have it over with.

[Xoser_barcelona]

I´d be ashamed to admit the train was my country´s at all. I´d blame the italians for it all, they made the ugly mother. Meanwhile, july 2009, a brand-new infrastructure project stretching from Schiphol to Antwerp, and no train in sight yet. Where´s the credit in that?

[33Hz]

^ Well said.

So when exactly can I ride on a Thalys at 300km/H on this line?

[3737]

They tested the new Fyra on the HSL Zuid.
Here are some photo's

@ 33Hz : On 13 december

UTRECHT - De Thalys, de snelle treinverbinding tussen Amsterdam en Parijs, wordt vanaf 13 december een stukje sneller.

NS Hispeed heeft donderdag besloten dat de trein vanaf die datum over de hogesnelheidslijn (HSL) kan gaan rijden.

In de praktijk betekent dit dat een ritje van Amsterdam naar Parijs voortaan drie uur en 18 minuten duurt.

Reistijd

Reizigers zijn in tweeënhalf uur tijd van Rotterdam in Parijs. De reistijd op beide trajecten wordt daarmee dik een half uur verkort.

Vanaf Amsterdam tot Rotterdam rijdt de trein met 160 kilometer per uur in plaats van maximaal 140 kilometer per uur, wat nu het geval is.

Na Rotterdam wordt de snelheid opgevoerd naar 300 kilometer per uur. Tussen Antwerpen en Brussel wordt ook 160 kilometer per uur gereden.
Bron: nu.nl

Now my best english translation :
Utrecht-The Thalys,the fast train conection betwean Amsterdam and Paris,will be shorter from 13th december.

Ns Hispeed has decided that from that date the trains will be running via the HSL (High speed line).

That means that a ride betwean Amsterdam and Paris will be taking 3 hours and 18 minutes.

Traveltime

Travelers from Rotterdam will be in Paris in 2 and a half huors.
That is a timesaving of a half hour.

Betwean Amsterdam and Rotterdam the trains wil be running 160 km/u istead of 140 km/u.

After Rotterdam the speed will be increased to 300 km/u and betwean Antwerp and Brussel the train will run 160 km/u
Source:Nu.nl

[Slagathor]

Originally Posted by Teach

Very simple solution in that case: just admit that Thermo is right in Fyra being Dutch-Belgian, not just Dutch, something you know very well, and have it over with.

I would but I had/have no idea. I was under impression the Fyra was an NS-KLM project which goes to show you how successful the Dutch propaganda machine really is

I was aware that the high speed line is a co-project (duh), but the train? That was news to me. I thought you people rode Thalys(!)

[sergiogiorgini]

I think I read that NS/KLM ordered 16 "Fyra" V250s, the NMBS 3.