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Old May 31st, 2013, 12:45 PM   #921
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According to Gazet van Antwerpen, later today SNCB will announce that it will be terminating the Fyra contract.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 03:12 PM   #922
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^No, hopefully that won't happen, otherwise it will take at least 2 1/2 more years to have some new high-speed trains operating there, even if HSA put a new tender out tomorrow.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 04:08 PM   #923
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Or just do what the English did: buy a bunch of Hitachi trains and pay the EU fine with a smile on your face.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 04:40 PM   #924
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The demise of Fyra: software isn't the only issue. VRT has some shocking photos of Fyra's faults.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 05:55 PM   #925
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Quote:
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Or just do what the English did: buy a bunch of Hitachi trains and pay the EU fine with a smile on your face.
I think the Asian train manufacturers also have a pretty long order log book at the moment.

I don't think there is any high-speed train manufacturer able to deliver a commissioned, tested and approved train for commercial operation before december/2015 excetp Anslado Breda which is working in less projects than its factory capacity.

They could try order ETR1000s though, but then they need to look into some contract that invovles Bombardier, the other partner on the ETR1000 project.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:21 PM   #926
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The demise of Fyra: software isn't the only issue. VRT has some shocking photos of Fyra's faults.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 07:58 PM   #927
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I think the Asian train manufacturers also have a pretty long order log book at the moment.

I don't think there is any high-speed train manufacturer able to deliver a commissioned, tested and approved train for commercial operation before december/2015 excetp Anslado Breda which is working in less projects than its factory capacity.

They could try order ETR1000s though, but then they need to look into some contract that invovles Bombardier, the other partner on the ETR1000 project.
If the NS dares to order any more AnsaldoBreda trains I will organize a big protest. I have no doubt that there will be enough people that want to help me to block all the Central Stations of Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht for 1 whole day.

The NS would be extremely disrespectful to their customers if they will even consider doing more business with a company that willingly delivers such dangerous trains to it's customers.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 09:45 PM   #928
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I'm reading the SNCB briefing.

There are some concerning factors, and some mud-throwing, but worrisome for me are the solutions proposed (besides cancellation of train):

- not a single word on new train orders (from anyone)

- mention of Thalys frequency increase to 12 trains per day

- mention of Eurostar trains - 2 per day


That is very problematic as it shows SNCF doesn't want to do much to operate trains on the HSL Zuid!

They need to order new trains regardless.
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Last edited by Suburbanist; May 31st, 2013 at 09:55 PM. Reason: typo
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Old May 31st, 2013, 09:53 PM   #929
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You mean SNCB, the Frenchies aren't involved (except for Thalys).

I don't expect new rolling stock to be ordered as SNCB has presented a new course, based on experience gained after starting the Fyra service:
- The old Benelux train, over The Hague and Roosendaal, will be reinstated. This is possible with the currently available rolling stock and some more locomotives
- Thalys frequencies to be increased to 12x/day (not sure if Thalys has enough rolling stock for that?)
- SNCB is a shareholder in Eurostar and is encouraging them to operate 2 trains/day between Amsterdam and London. The rolling stock for that is on order.
- Start a study on an intercity from Antwerp to Eindhoven. No mention of rolling stock, but chances are this will be either ICRm coaches or I10/I11 coaches hauled by a Traxx.

All together, this sounds like a fine proposal of which many passengers will benefit. It's balanced, too, as it not only takes Amsterdam and Rotterdam into account, but also the Hague, Dordrecht, Roosendaal, Breda and Mechelen.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 09:59 PM   #930
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It is a bad proposal. Thalys trains are often full (on 2nd class).

Interestingly enough, often you can buy cheaper NL - Bruxelles Thalys tickets if you buy a ticket to Paris instead of a ticket to Bruxelles. No tricks involved, you just quote fares to Paris and Bruxelles on the same trains, if it is already filling fast, it is cheaper to buy a ticket to Paris often.

They need at least 20 daily high-speed trains between NL and B, and just some regional trains to connect Roosendal.

It is a travesty to sacrifice 1 hour of travel time for passengers travelling from Amsterdam to Belgium for the sake of serving more intermediate destinations that could easily get service by transferring on the modern awesome Rotterdam Centraal station!
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Old May 31st, 2013, 10:17 PM   #931
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I tend to disagree with you, I think the proposal set out by SNCB is very good, balancing interests of passengers who want to get there fast, those who like to travel on a budget or a pass, and those who prefer direct connections. 20 high speed trains/day is too much, there aren't even as much trains between Paris and Brussels or Barcelona and Madrid.

But we'll see, so far it's just a proposal. NS and the ministry of infrastructure still have to respond to it, as well as Dutch politicians. The demise of the Fyra V250 could as well mean the end for NS's activities on HSL-Zuid.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 10:32 PM   #932
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Quote:
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The demise of the Fyra V250 could as well mean the end for NS's activities on HSL-Zuid.
Won't it keep opereting the Fyra-light services to Breda for the foreseeable future?
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Old May 31st, 2013, 10:38 PM   #933
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The HSL Zuid concession has some termination clauses in it, one of them being SNCB pulling out of the Fyra deal. SNCB has basically done so (their proposals don't go anywhere near the services demanded in the concession or agreed upon in December) so the concession should be terminated and re-let. The domestic services are part of the same concession.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 11:34 PM   #934
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It is a bad proposal.
It's not what the rail user's associations seem to think :

http://www.treintrambus.be/actueel/p...eluxtrein.html
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Old June 1st, 2013, 12:03 AM   #935
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How self-serving (for SNCB)
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Old June 1st, 2013, 08:12 AM   #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexNL View Post
The HSL Zuid concession has some termination clauses in it, one of them being SNCB pulling out of the Fyra deal. SNCB has basically done so (their proposals don't go anywhere near the services demanded in the concession or agreed upon in December) so the concession should be terminated and re-let. The domestic services are part of the same concession.
The plans of the Ministry of Infrastructure and the Environment are still that the whole HSL-Zuid concession will be terminated at the end of next year and that it will become part of the main rail concession 2015-2025 that will be given to the NS without a public tender. And I have little doubt that the minister will change her mind about this and rush a new decision now the trains seem to have been written off.

If this would have happened 3 years ago it would have been a different story, but the continuing AnsaldoBreda delays actually mean that the NS will continue to operate the HSL.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 07:12 PM   #937
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Quote:
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20 high speed trains/day is too much, there aren't even as much trains between Paris and Brussels or Barcelona and Madrid.
.
Actually there are 24 HST services daily between Paris and Brussel. Brussel - Amsterdam does warrant a half hourly service. Barcelona - Madrid should also have a lot more trains, but Renfe is not that good at selling tickets....

However currently the rolling stock for a train every half hour over the HST isn't there...
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Old June 1st, 2013, 07:21 PM   #938
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Actually there are 24 HST services daily between Paris and Brussel. Brussel - Amsterdam does warrant a half hourly service. Barcelona - Madrid should also have a lot more trains, but Renfe is not that good at selling tickets.....
I keep wondering what would be the maximum daily service that the current Thalys fleet can deliver. They will increase it to 12 (from current 9).
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Old June 1st, 2013, 10:33 PM   #939
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With the DB selling it's share in Thalys it could mean that the number of Thalys services to Germany will be reduced, the trains could then be transferred to the Amsterdam route.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 11:44 PM   #940
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With the DB selling it's share in Thalys it could mean that the number of Thalys services to Germany will be reduced, the trains could then be transferred to the Amsterdam route.
Doesn't Thalys have some plant to run trains all the way to Berlin?
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