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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:29 AM   #961
AlexNL
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The future for NS' activities on the high speed line is currently very uncertain. Competitors such as Veolia Transport are banging at the doors, trying to get the HSL now that Fyra has flopped definitely. Furthermore, political parties such as the CDA are claiming that NS' concession should be revoked and that HSL-Zuid should be re-tendered. Wilma Mansveld, secretary of state for public transport and environment, is open to this idea as well.

For the time being, it looks like NS will start to use the "NS Hispeed" brand to indicate the service between Amsterdam and Breda. Perhaps this will be enough to tell people that they will need to pay a supplement to travel on the trains.

Regarding your suggestion: this is what the Belgians did to fund the infrastructure expansion around Brussels Airport, it's the Diabolo project. If Schiphol were in the need of more infrastructure and the only way to fund it is a public-private partnership (like Diabolo), I'm in favor of that. However, I don't think Schiphol currently needs the expansion as trains are either re-routed (over Haarlem), terminate at Amsterdam Centraal, or are coupled to other series. This limits the number of trains terminating at Schiphol (and thus requiring capacity at Hoofddorp).
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:07 AM   #962
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My point is that the Schiphol tunnels are a bottleneck now that we have HSL Zuid. HSL Zuid between Rotterdam and Hoofddorp will be never able to be used to its full potential unless extra Hoofddorp-Amsterdam Zuid is added OR Schiphol <=> Leiden traffic reduced.

The line is a good candidate for an open-access carrier now.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:17 AM   #963
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How do you define "full potential"? Because there are very few high speed railways in the world where the maximum number of trains that could physically be allowed on the tracks would actually be profitable.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:19 AM   #964
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Quote:
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How do you define "full potential"? Because there are very few high speed railways in the world where the maximum number of trains that could physically be allowed on the tracks would actually be profitable.
I'm talking on a broader sense of increasing services between Rotterdam and Amsterdam with faster services. Trains there are often slow and commercial speeds are unacceptable.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:25 AM   #965
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Now apparently NS is under threat of losing the concession to operate on HSL if it doesn't come with a plan to operate high-speed services there until Friday.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:43 PM   #966
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AnsaldoBreda refutes accusations on new press release

AnsaldoBreda just published this press release

Quote:
ANSALDOBREDA: We reject any accusation on the Fyra matter.

AnsaldoBreda firmly rejects all accusations addressed on the matter of the contract execution with the Belgian client NMBS related to the supply of the three high-speed trains called Fyra.

The statements made by the CEO of NMBS and those included in the press release of NS are in contradiction with each other.

The public needs to know that the train is safe and, as such, it has been certified and verified by international authorities in charge. The project was considered "acceptable" also by NS in the letter of the 3rd of June to the State Secretary of Infrastructure and to the Minister of Finance.

The V250 (Fyra) has indeed all the international certifications for the commissioning overcoming severe tests. The authorization of commissioning has been released being the train fully in compliance with art. 26 of the Directive 2008/57/EC according to the assessment and to the certifications obtained from third parties (Lloyds Register, Belgorail and the Dutch and Belgian Railway Security Agencies).

The setback of January - occurred during a heavy snowfall - which has not, however, had any effect on people or things, was caused by the excessive speed of the train (250 km/h), incautious and irresponsible operation, which was performed several times despite the automatic intervention of the on-board systems that have repeatedly activated the emergency braking, and in complete disregard of what required the specification of the customer that properly limits the maximum speed of the train in case of heavy snowfall, as in the day of the event and how it happened - the same day - on the trains of other operators.

The malfunction was only a pretext to stop the supply, especially by the operator in Belgium. The real reasons that led to the request for cancellation of the contract by NMBS and to the stance of NS are not based on technical foundations, but on another kind.

AnsaldoBreda is one of the most important operators in the construction of rolling stock, and has more than twenty five years of experience in the field of high-speed, both in terms of safety and reliability and, therefore, has all the state of the art railway technology skills. In the world, for years, hundreds of AB products are running every day safely.
If they can prove this fact, it would be shocking and irresponsible. Did NS/SNCB ordered train drivers to ignore the safety systems? HAve they under-specified the parameters of operations when they first put out a tender?
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:53 PM   #967
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Quote:
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AnsaldoBreda just published this press release



If they can prove this fact, it would be shocking and irresponsible. Did NS/SNCB ordered train drivers to ignore the safety systems? HAve they under-specified the parameters of operations when they first put out a tender?
This is up to NS/DSB to demostrate. It's unikely that there are making it up.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #968
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Anyway, a non-time lapsed cab ride of the whole thing

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Old June 5th, 2013, 11:26 AM   #969
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
My point is that the Schiphol tunnels are a bottleneck now that we have HSL Zuid. HSL Zuid between Rotterdam and Hoofddorp will be never able to be used to its full potential unless extra Hoofddorp-Amsterdam Zuid is added OR Schiphol <=> Leiden traffic reduced.
There's no bottleneck below Schiphol airport. The tunnel has four tracks. The same number as the lines to Leiden and Rotterdam combined. Willemsspoortunnel is more likely limiting the capacity of HSL Zuid.
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Old June 5th, 2013, 01:22 PM   #970
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I thought the Schiphol tunnel had just 2 tracks from what I read here a long time ago.
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Old June 5th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #971
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Even with the current 4 entry/exit tracks and 6 platform tracks Schiphol is pretty much at it's peak and very susceptible to disturbances (for instance the fire detection system in the tunnel acts up every now and then). As far as I know Schiphol is the only station in the Netherlands where trains are not assigned fixed tracknumbers, but only a platform. A train can then enter the station at either side of the platform depending on which side is available at the time of arrival.

Check sporenplan.nl/ for the track layouts of the Netherlands and several other countries.
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Old June 5th, 2013, 01:55 PM   #972
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Even with the current 4 entry/exit tracks and 6 platform tracks Schiphol is pretty much at it's peak and very susceptible to disturbances (for instance the fire detection system in the tunnel acts up every now and then). As far as I know Schiphol is the only station in the Netherlands where trains are not assigned fixed tracknumbers, but only a platform. A train can then enter the station at either side of the platform depending on which side is available at the time of arrival.
SBB does the same with tracks 41-44 in Zürich Hbf, and for the same reason...
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Old June 7th, 2013, 06:18 PM   #973
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More pics from dutch railways investigation










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Old June 7th, 2013, 08:25 PM   #974
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I traveled today on a FYRA domestic service. All leaflets and brochures alluding to Fyra were taken out
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Old June 7th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #975
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And I just replace those a few weeks ago.... :-(
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Old June 8th, 2013, 02:35 AM   #976
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AnsaldoBreda called the photos released by NS as "worth of papparazzi".

This is what they wrote today

Quote:
AnsaldoBreda on the pronouncement of the Dutch government: we stand firm on our position.

.
In relation to the pronouncement of the Dutch Council of Ministers on the high-speed train V250-Fyra event, AnsaldoBreda reiterates its firm position.

The trains are safe and the reasons for the cancellation of the order are not technical.

AnsaldoBreda will protect its rights and its image in all national and international occasions
Source


They are blaming the faults on the operators.


Anyway, these are major points raised on the conference by AB team (not saying I agree, just referencing them)

- HSA chose to manage the contract outsourced to a Irish company without technical capabilities of managing a high-speed project
- HSA didn't care about managing the infrastructure, and the train was made the scapegoat
- NS and SNCB didn't collaborate among themselves, delaying the delivery of trains
- after Sep/2012 certification, FYRA had better punctuality than Thalys
- a freak bloc of ice produced much damage on the fatific train
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Old June 8th, 2013, 03:22 AM   #977
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Geez Suburbanist, when are you gonna stop brown-nosing AnsaldoBreda and just accept it's a crappy company that delivered crappy products?
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Old June 8th, 2013, 03:33 AM   #978
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Quote:
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Geez Suburbanist, when are you gonna stop brown-nosing AnsaldoBreda and just accept it's a crappy company that delivered crappy products?
I just referenced the points raised by AB.

I'm kinda disapointed by the way they are handling the project now
They said the train should have been driving, on the day that damage happened, at a crawl speed not higher than 20km/h to the next station ,and never 250km/h.
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Old June 8th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #979
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Have you ever travelled on a V250?
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Old June 8th, 2013, 01:09 PM   #980
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Quote:
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Geez Suburbanist, when are you gonna stop brown-nosing AnsaldoBreda and just accept it's a crappy company that delivered crappy products?
Madrid metro has some ansaldobreda units and i think there are no problems with them so far.
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