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Old October 30th, 2015, 10:53 AM   #1161
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Wednesday, October 28, 2015

Dutch minister resigns as final Fyra report is published

DUTCH secretary of state for infrastructure Mrs Wilma Mansveld resigned on October 28 following the publication of a report into the Fyra high-speed fiasco, which places the blame for the debacle squarely with various current and former government ministers as well as Netherlands Railways (NS) and Belgian National Railways (SNCB).
Continue on http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=523
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Old October 31st, 2015, 05:00 PM   #1162
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I'm glad a politician has finally had to pay for this but...

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Rolling stock was a core element of the Fyra crisis. The new trains could not be based on existing products because of the unique and complex specification. AnsaldoBreda won the contract to supply the trains, but it appears the other shortlisted candidate, Alstom, was not asked the same questions in the tendering procedure. Moreover, AnsaldoBreda was able to make modifications to its bid and design after the official final deadline for submitting bids. The report states that the tendering procedure was poorly managed and NS made significant errors in the procurement.

In 2004 NS's Dublin-based leasing subsidiary NS Financial Services concluded the contract with AnsaldoBreda for the V250 fleet and delivery was scheduled for 2007. However, NS already knew the timetable for introduction was unrealistic and had concerns about quality
Seems like nonsense for two reasons:

1) The Alstom-supplied Thalys sets can operate on HSL Zuid, Dutch and Belgian domestic lines and clearly the AGV platform could have been a starting point to reuse this expertise.

2) Hitachi managed to produce trains of similar specification in an unfamiliar market, interfacing with unfamiliar power and signalling systems, and they got it right first time and in the same timescale as the Fyra requirement.
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Old October 31st, 2015, 05:19 PM   #1163
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Yes. But AnsaldoBreda was cheaper and were willing to give the train its custom front-end.
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Old November 2nd, 2015, 10:30 PM   #1164
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Yes. But AnsaldoBreda was cheaper and were willing to give the train its custom front-end.
And I recall the President of NS presenting the deal with AnsaldoBreda: "we will have our own designed Albatross train by Perraferini (or what was the name). A regular TGV is too ordinary for us." That guy should hang at first place.
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Old November 3rd, 2015, 12:17 AM   #1165
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albatross_(metaphor)
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Old November 3rd, 2015, 02:32 AM   #1166
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So appropriate. A cmmplete fiasco from start to finish. At least somebody has finally been held accountable, I can only hope some more heads will follow.
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Old November 3rd, 2015, 09:35 AM   #1167
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Yes. But AnsaldoBreda was cheaper and were willing to give the train its custom front-end.
A few interesting points from the report:
  • After the first round Alstom was cheaper. AnsaldoBreda was only cheaper after NS took actions considered inappropriate during a tender.
  • AnsaldoBreda shouldn't have been allowed to bid in the first place, because they only had a bank guarantee from an A class bank, instead of a A1+ bank as required by the tender.
  • CAF was excluded because they had never been the main contractor for a HST project, but AnsaldoBreda wasn't, despite neither AB themselves or their predecessor Breda being the main contractor in a HST project in recent times.
  • AnsaldoBreda was an unknown manufacturer for NS. That's a huge risk
  • AnsaldoBreda claims the V250 is based on the ETR500. Really?
  • AnsaldoBreda accepted all change requests from NS without question
  • Alstom was not even asked if they could comply with most of these requests
  • The number of trains to be delivered changed several times during the tender, which in the end was the main reason for Alstom to leave the bidding process
  • The trains had to comply with a TSI that hadn't been published at the time of the tender yet (and at that time they also hadn't decided on which train control systems had to be fitted either)
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Old November 3rd, 2015, 09:50 AM   #1168
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Yes. But AnsaldoBreda was cheaper and were willing to give the train its custom front-end.
It's quite ironic that AnsaldoBreda is now owned by Hitachi. Maybe we will see more Hitachi build Class 2 (and even Class 1) HST's in Europe. That would be a good thing.
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Old November 3rd, 2015, 10:00 AM   #1169
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Has there also been an investigation in the way the railways mistreated the passengers on the day the Fyra stopped running? Many passengers were told that they had no option but to buy an expensive on the spot Thalys ticket, and did so, this although they were entitled to travel on Thalys with their Fyra tickets as soon as those were cancelled.
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Old November 3rd, 2015, 02:05 PM   #1170
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@ M-NL

Surely if true, this points to serious illegalities which should merit a criminal investigation
.
Was any evidence of bribery found? It all has the appearance of doing everything possible to hand the contract to AB by corrupting the tendering process.

Would Alstom have a valid legal case here against NS?
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Old November 3rd, 2015, 09:44 PM   #1171
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It is really sad the V250 never achieved its purposes. AnsaldoBreda wanted to use the project as a showcase for its high-speed products, there were even rumors of they being in talks, at the time, to create "complete railway solutions" joint-ventures to pursue greenfield HST contratcts - at the time, several emerging economy countries were considering HST projects such as Mexico, Morocco, Argentina, Libya etc.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 12:20 AM   #1172
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Its very sad it was selected in the first place.
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Old November 4th, 2015, 09:27 PM   #1173
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It is really sad the V250 never achieved its purposes. AnsaldoBreda wanted to use the project as a showcase for its high-speed products, there were even rumors of they being in talks, at the time, to create "complete railway solutions" joint-ventures to pursue greenfield HST contratcts - at the time, several emerging economy countries were considering HST projects such as Mexico, Morocco, Argentina, Libya etc.
If it was that important to them, Why didn't they put more effort in to it?
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Old June 3rd, 2016, 04:41 PM   #1174
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Is everything going fine with the new train orders for domestic high-speed services?
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Old June 3rd, 2016, 10:10 PM   #1175
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Well, Siemens has appealed to the decision to favour Alstom as short-listed, but that is never surprising. If Siemens does not manage to stall the tender (likely), contracts should be signed this summer.
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Old June 6th, 2016, 11:09 AM   #1176
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Is everything going fine with the new train orders for domestic high-speed services?
What domestic high-speed services? They're aiming for 200 km/h service on the high speed line. To be classified as high speed on a high speed line, you need at least 230 km/h service. That's not going to happen any time soon.
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Old June 7th, 2016, 10:04 AM   #1177
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Are there any mock-ups for the future domestic high speed train proposals?
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Old June 7th, 2016, 11:05 AM   #1178
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Eindhoven wants this



But I'd say upgrading the Amsterdam-Utrecht-Arnhem-Frankfurt corridor has a higher priority.

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Old May 30th, 2017, 09:32 AM   #1179
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I am trying to understand why the line between Brussels and Amsterdam is so ineffective, but I could not find sufficient information in English. Does anyone know why, provided that the line was designed for speed of 186 mph, the journey tine is about 2 hours (I know that the trains are calling at Antwerp, Rotterdam and Schiphol) and at the moment it might be faster to drive between the two cities (ot between any two cities on the line) and 5-10 times cheaper than to take a train?
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Old May 30th, 2017, 10:18 AM   #1180
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Have you read in to the FYRA dissaster?
Trains for 250km/h where ordered but where not taken in to propper operation (unsafe/bad construction/unreliable).

We have since been using a half-ass solution.
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