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Old June 4th, 2017, 04:43 PM   #1221
M-NL
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Originally Posted by bench_mark_2 View Post
You might be right and as far as I remember the line between the airport and the central station is quadruple,
...
so two sets of tracks can be re-signalled for speeds of 125 mph
Have you studied the route at all?
From the airport to the Riekerpolder junction it is quadruple, but this section is to short to make any significant amount of speed (which is limited to 140 km/h on 1.5 kV DC ATB-EG tracks anyway). The curve at Riekerpolder junction is tight as well (afaik 80 km/h). From Riekerpolder junction all the way to Zaanstraat yard it's double track at 130 km/h, but often 80 km/h in real life, because of the traffic. Zaanstraat yard to Central station is a huge bottle neck as it is, where the limit changes down to 80 km/h, 60 km/h and eventually 40 km/h.

Quadruple tracks between Riekerpolder junction and Sloterdijk station and a tunnel from Isolatorweg to Westerdok bypassing the bottle neck between Zaanstraat yard and the Central station entry may help a bit, but the real world gain in travel time would be less the spectacular. I would spend my money on some other project.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 04:56 PM   #1222
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To quadruple the tracks to Sloterdijk means also relocating the subway tracks.

The priority at Schiphol should be to build a metro line.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 07:27 PM   #1223
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Quote:
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To quadruple the tracks to Sloterdijk means also relocating the subway tracks.
There should be enough space immediately to the west of the current tracks, so no need to relocate the metro tracks.

Quote:
The priority at Schiphol should be to build a metro line.
No, it shouldn't. Rather increase passenger throughflow at the station platforms.
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Old June 5th, 2017, 09:26 AM   #1224
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The priority at Schiphol should be to build a metro line.
In long term perspective this might be an option, although it is doubtful if it is achievable. You should keep in mind that the construction of the current tube line which is being constructed will take a decade more than it was initially planned. So its extension to the airport might not be readu before 2040 even if work stars immediatelly after the current line is opened and when at that time Schiphol will serve more than 100 000 000 passengers.

On the other hand, the modernisation of the railway line will increase its capacity, reliability and will be significantly cheaper (possibly less than 1 billion euros) to build.
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Old June 5th, 2017, 11:28 AM   #1225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bench_mark_2 View Post
In long term perspective this might be an option, although it is doubtful if it is achievable. You should keep in mind that the construction of the current tube line which is being constructed will take a decade more than it was initially planned. So its extension to the airport might not be readu before 2040 even if work stars immediatelly after the current line is opened and when at that time Schiphol will serve more than 100 000 000 passengers.
Digging a tunnel from Centraal to Zuid isn't even remotely the same as extending the subway from Zuid to Schiphol... The two are so far apart technologically they're practically in different galaxies.

Digging the North-South tunnel meant inventing new tunnel boring techniques for a highly unstable and saturated landscape while at the same time compensating for instability in order not to destroy the fragile foundations of ancient architecture. While that mostly went well, the project had to be halted a couple of times because buildins were shifting dangerously towards collapsing (which explains the delays).

Extending the line from Zuid to Schiphol means putting some tracks in a field.
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Old June 5th, 2017, 12:15 PM   #1226
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Even though I agree extending the metro line from Zuid to Schiphol won't be nearly as complex as constructing the current segment, 'putting some tracks in a field' is an oversimplification.
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Old June 5th, 2017, 12:39 PM   #1227
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They need to seriously consider journey times. It would at least make sense to me to create the junction at the same location as Riekerpolder railway junction. From there it would then make sense to me having stations at Sloten, Badhoevedorp, Cateringweg, P3 and finally Schiphol Plaza. Compared to the train travelling from Zuid to Schiphol a metro would take a proverbial eternity.
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Old June 5th, 2017, 01:00 PM   #1228
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Even though I agree extending the metro line from Zuid to Schiphol won't be nearly as complex as constructing the current segment, 'putting some tracks in a field' is an oversimplification.
Obviously, yes. The connection at Zuid and the terminus at Schiphol would require some careful planning. But I lost my patience slightly with the general absurdity of some of the things posted in this discussion.
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Old June 5th, 2017, 02:16 PM   #1229
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What's absurd to one, is a testimony of genius to the other.
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Old June 7th, 2017, 05:23 PM   #1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
They need to seriously consider journey times. It would at least make sense to me to create the junction at the same location as Riekerpolder railway junction. From there it would then make sense to me having stations at Sloten, Badhoevedorp, Cateringweg, P3 and finally Schiphol Plaza. Compared to the train travelling from Zuid to Schiphol a metro would take a proverbial eternity.


Well, I also think that on the long term, any metro could better go via Osdorp or Amstelveen in any case. The train should have its tracks amidst the motorways.


Nowadays some people even dare to take two of the four crucial tracks to Schiphol for metro purposes while with the other two tracks the capacity is far too low even for the intercity trains and would destroy any of the remaining robustness of the HSR service between Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Breda/Brussels/Paris/London.


Schiphol station needs to be expanded, that is sure. But because of the current capacity the platforms need to be as well and because of the lack of tracks for future trains supporting the passengers, it is evident that has to be dug under a runway as well. I say: combine these works and do it as quick as possible. Then the works will feel horrible for a few years but afterwards we can say it is probably one of the, if not the single best ground-connected airport in the world.
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Old June 8th, 2017, 03:33 AM   #1231
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Any closure of half od the tracks at Schiphol during works would force a brutal reduction of services there. To preserve HSL traffic, they'd have to divert all through-IC between Amsterdam and Leiden via Haarlem. Hooffdorp would be seriously isolated as well.
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Old June 17th, 2017, 02:43 PM   #1232
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Further delays on availability of rolling stock mean there will be no high speed services from HSA to Belgium before 2018. Of course Thalys services remain as usual.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 08:12 PM   #1233
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HSA doesn't exist anymore. The high speed line concession has been added to the Hoofdrailnet concession operated by NS.
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Old June 20th, 2017, 08:16 PM   #1234
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Technically, you are right. I still think it was a mistake to downgrade high-speed services from the Fyra concept to "just another NS train, but faster"
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Old June 20th, 2017, 10:21 PM   #1235
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The staff feels the same way about it, I can feel it whenever I'm on board of one of those trains.
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Old June 23rd, 2017, 08:51 AM   #1236
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Technically, you are right. I still think it was a mistake to downgrade high-speed services from the Fyra concept to "just another NS train, but faster"
There is one really anoying habit in Dutch culture that seems to rear its head everywhere, not just in the railway sector: We start of with the most fantastic plans, start executing them and when they fail at some point we think of some quick, cheaper, temporary solution that will then last for too long, but will still be presented as the best invention since sliced bread.


Examples a plenty: Archaic 1,5 kV DC overhead line system, fixed catenary wire limiting speed to 140 km/h on large parts of the network, ATB-EG limited to 140 km/h, parts of the infrastructure built to low to support the safety clearance for higher overhead voltages and track occupation circuits having difficulty detecting light diesel powered trains.
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