ECR - Entertainment corridor - Projects Updates

[ramvaradan]

Originally Posted by kannan infratech

The CRZ rules - all are of recent origin.

As per the CMDA /DTCP rules, if there is a road existing between the sea HTL and the proposed development, CRZ rule does not apply. Besant Nagar and Kapaleeswarar Nagar on ECR were approved layouts.

GRT Temple Bay is actually the renovated Hotel Tamilnadu, which has been existing at the site for many decades. GRT leased the hotel from TTDC.

But many other developments along ECR do not have the full clearance and many have only temporary clearances.

Now a days, DTCP and CMDA are very strict esp in and around Chennai. Many sea side developments get only the local panchayat approvals and build them.

Is that a legal thing to do -- To go ahead with the panchayat approval for non-farmhouse type dwellings? I thought its a common mis-belief that panchayat can approve anything, even if the CRZ rules don't apply.

[leonine]

Road between any HTL and proposed development (Road Inward Zone ) is applicable only under the purview of CMDA, DTCP does not exempt CRZ rules and no development is permissible upto 100 Metres from buckhingham canal, hence the entire sports city developments will go for a toss from a legal / approval point of view unless a special permission is not given by govt.

[kannan infratech]

Originally Posted by leonine

Road between any HTL and proposed development (Road Inward Zone ) is applicable only under the purview of CMDA, DTCP does not exempt CRZ rules and no development is permissible upto 100 Metres from buckhingham canal, hence the entire sports city developments will go for a toss from a legal / approval point of view unless a special permission is not given by govt.

I know some big developers got permission from DTCP to build MSBs off OMR, even though they were near B Canal citing the old Road between the canal and development rule. MRC Nagar is developed mainly on this rule.

It is a grey rule and any interpretation is possible.

CRZ rules has to be re looked. In Kerala, almost all the state will suffer if CRZ rules are strictly applied. Inland waterways rule may be modified with pragmatic views. But the defaulters should be punished very severely.

Water side development is not bad rather the need of the hour - provided that they are responsible developments and not rogue developments.

[kannan infratech]

Originally Posted by ramvaradan

Is that a legal thing to do -- To go ahead with the panchayat approval for non-farmhouse type dwellings? I thought its a common mis-belief that panchayat can approve anything, even if the CRZ rules don't apply.

Panchayat Approval will not be valid in a Court of Law.

People who built beyond 500 metres from HTL along the beach may get a reprieve, but within 500 metres, strictly No No.

[comet]

Originally Posted by kannan infratech

Panchayat Approval will not be valid in a Court of Law.

People who built beyond 500 metres from HTL along the beach may get a reprieve, but within 500 metres, strictly No No.

Panchayat approvals are not only valid in courts of law, they also enable town & village dwellings to getting housing loans, insure their investmet, pay property taxes, trade / sell the structure by way of registered deed and more !

http://www.tnrd.gov.in/Pt_Raj/linkfi...5_97_pg491.pdf

One simply has to ask the question " Who approves the buildings that are outside city lmits ? " Are they all illegal buildings ? Of course not ! Tamil Nadu govt has a robust Panchayat rule system.

The Tamil Nadu Panchayats Building Rules, Section 3(a) 1997 gives the President, Member Secretary, LPAs absolute and irrevocable jurisdiction over development proposals of upto 2100 sft of residential & 1000 sft of commercial and 5 acres of plot layouts - beyond which they used to refer the matter to DTCP. However recent proposal allowing approvals upto 2000 sft commercial & 4000 sft residential is on trial in certain Town Panchayats.

Panchayat approvals do not acknowledge the CRZ rule, as TN alone has over 1800 fully developed hamlets on the coast within the 1/2 Km no build zone. The organic expansion of the towns continue to be approved and allowed.

Much of Greater Chennai , falls outside CMDA and is under the explicit jurisdiction of Village Panchayats.

To read more about the long arm of the Panchayats :
http://priasoft1.tn.nic.in/rdwebsite.../pt_rules.html

[ramvaradan]

Originally Posted by comet

Panchayat approvals are not only valid in courts of law, they also enable town & village dwellings to getting housing loans, insure their investmet, pay property taxes, trade / sell the structure by way of registered deed and more !

http://www.tnrd.gov.in/Pt_Raj/linkfi...5_97_pg491.pdf

One simply has to ask the question " Who approves the buildings that are outside city lmits ? " Are they all illegal buildings ? Of course not ! Tamil Nadu govt has a robust Panchayat rule system.

The Tamil Nadu Panchayats Building Rules, Section 3(a) 1997 gives the President, Member Secretary, LPAs absolute and irrevocable jurisdiction over development proposals of upto 2100 sft of residential & 1000 sft of commercial and 5 acres of plot layouts - beyond which they used to refer the matter to DTCP. However recent proposal allowing approvals upto 2000 sft commercial & 4000 sft residential is on trial in certain Town Panchayats.

Panchayat approvals do not acknowledge the CRZ rule, as TN alone has over 1800 fully developed hamlets on the coast within the 1/2 Km no build zone. The organic expansion of the towns continue to be approved and allowed.

Much of Greater Chennai , falls outside CMDA and is under the explicit jurisdiction of Village Panchayats.

To read more about the long arm of the Panchayats :
http://priasoft1.tn.nic.in/rdwebsite.../pt_rules.html

Thats exactly what I argued, elsewhere in another forum. That the Panchayat Approval is valid outside city limits. But the problem seems to be, there is a lot of grey area... Every inch of our state comes under exactly one district authority or the other. So, there seems to be a clash of the roles ..

District has CMDA, thats the metro- authority for development, for the urban areas.

District also has several Panchayats Unions which is a group Village Panchayat-s, for rural areas (outside the metro/city limit).

District also has DTCP thats especially designed for Planning Permissions.

Now, in a place, thats outside the city limits -- who is the Planning Permission authority ?? Panchayats or DTCP .. Or is it just driven by the area/purpose of the structure ..... Its just too confusing.

Where did you find the 2000 sq. feet limit? Is it the one below (which does'nt add up) :-

"Provided that the construction or reconstruction or addition or alteration to residential houses, all such other public buildings like commercial buildings, hotels, resorts and factory buildings exceeding a plinth area of 250 square metres in the Panchayats of Nilgiris district shall be approved by the Executive Authority after obtaining the permission of the Committee for Architectural and Aesthetic Aspects headed by the Collector of the Nilgiris district."

[kannan infratech]

Originally Posted by comet

Panchayat approvals are not only valid in courts of law, they also enable town & village dwellings to getting housing loans, insure their investmet, pay property taxes, trade / sell the structure by way of registered deed and more !

http://www.tnrd.gov.in/Pt_Raj/linkfi...5_97_pg491.pdf


To read more about the long arm of the Panchayats :
http://priasoft1.tn.nic.in/rdwebsite.../pt_rules.html

In TN, the areas, not covered under CMDA, comes under DTCP. The zoning and town planning responsibility lies with them.

Each municipality has a Town Planner, who sanctions all the development within the municipality.

Due to enormous delay in processing and following the complaints from various trade bodies, Local Admin Ministry brought a Go, which has recommended certain powers with Panchayats (below a particular extent of land area and built up area). This can be enforced and enacted by Panchayats, only after the DTCP approves the zoning and after complying all other existing rules like CRZ.

Town Panchayats, since they are either suburbs of the cities or nearer to the cities / municipalities clamour for the new found status because of the enormous income potential.

Our experience is that the existing system of Panchayat approval is not following the laws strictly. Since they do not have any competent engineering personnel with relevant credentials make so many mistakes and allow construction.

If somebody is simply not bothered about these rules and not going for loan (some private banks have given loan also, I was told, but in a circuitous manner), they can buy and build.

Thousands of bungalows and houses have been built within CRZ along the beach in Chennai under CMDA and DTCP areas and nobody has demolished any house so far. But they are not approved. (except a few lay outs approved already)

The problem lies with the layout and zoning approval. Panchayats are not competent and they have to refer to DTCP for all technical inputs. DTCP can over rule Panchayat approvals.

Once this is done, then the building approval is easier. Even Panchayats may sanction, provided that the design is approved by an Accredited Charted Engineer.

This is the grey area, which Panchayats make use of to make money.

If one owns a plot in an approved layout (even within CRZ), he can build a house with Panchayat approval (not more than G+1 and as per CRZ rule, if applicable - temp. structures). The east coast upto Kalpakkam has also special GOs, which is not known to outsiders (not published). NILA Committee has to approve any development in and around 25 Kms of Kalpakkam.

After Tsunami, the rules have been made more stringent.

[comet]

It is indeed interesting that there are so many misconceptions about the suburban approval system

But just to kick start a discussion, let me ask a hypothetical question

" The owner of one ground vacant land on Royapettah High Road, near the EA mall, wants to build a commercial building for his own use. Who does he apply for the sanctions . ?"

[ramvaradan]

Originally Posted by comet

" The owner of one ground vacant land on Royapettah High Road, near the EA mall, wants to build a commercial building for his own use. Who does he apply for the sanctions . ?"

CMDA.

[comet]

Originally Posted by ramvaradan

CMDA.

Actually , this was a real life scenario, where the demolishing permission of the existing old structure and the new building was obtained through the Corporation of Chennai, through their online approval system. ! CMDA played no role.

Link to an old article :
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...ow/3358858.cms

Like wise outside the Chennai Corporation limits, most buildings ARE approved by the town or village panchayats.

In fact i is good idea for anyone envisaging to build in near term to apply & get a panchayat permission - for example at Muttukaadu in ECR or Padur on OMR. The permission is valid for 1 year and can be renewed for upto 3 years.

[ramvaradan]

Originally Posted by comet

Actually , this was a real life scenario, where the demolishing permission of the existing old structure and the new building was obtained through the Corporation of Chennai, through their online approval system. ! CMDA played no role.

Link to an old article :
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...ow/3358858.cms

Like wise outside the Chennai Corporation limits, most buildings ARE approved by the town or village panchayats.

In fact i is good idea for anyone envisaging to build in near term to apply & get a panchayat permission - for example at Muttukaadu in ECR or Padur on OMR. The permission is valid for 1 year and can be renewed for upto 3 years.

OK.

There are too many kinds of divisions in Chennai

Postal Zones/Districts
Revenue Districts aka Taluks


Chennai Metro Area has too many bodies :-

Corporation
Municipalties from several Districts (Kanchipuram/Thiruvallur)
Town Panchayats from several Districts
Panchaya Unions comprising Village Panchayats from several Districts

And then Planning Authorites

CMDA-s
DTCP-s

which again delegate to the local bodies.

I am going to try to demystify them ...maybe start a blog to do that.

[kannan infratech]

Originally Posted by comet

It is indeed interesting that there are so many misconceptions about the suburban approval system

But just to kick start a discussion, let me ask a hypothetical question

" The owner of one ground vacant land on Royapettah High Road, near the EA mall, wants to build a commercial building for his own use. Who does he apply for the sanctions . ?"

Chennai Corporation is responsible for the buildings upto G+1. Any special building will have to go through CMDA.

In 1 ground land in Royapettah, one can build max 3600 sft in G+1 format with Corporation approvals.

But here we are talking about Building Approval. The zoning has already been done either as Res or Commercial. Corporation is equivalent to Panchayat for Building approvals.

For areas, where zoning has not been done (most of the new suburbs), CMDA or DTCP has to approve first, before Panchayat / LPA approval for buildings. Wrt the new SIPCOT and other industrial clusters, similar problems arose and it was solved through a special GO. But individuals can not afford to do the same. We get GOs for all big developments (Private Townships). It is expensive.

The problem is that the process is not transparent and very greyish. Interpretations rule.

[Kurt Staley]

nice

[madrasi7777]

If the ECR is to be the hub of entertainment then a few laws must be thrown out. Why do we have this problem but other countries like Thailand, Malaysia, Srilanka, USA and Australia have their hotels and resorts on the beach and are promoting the same with gusto.WE need an SEZ (Special Entertainment Zone) with the other SEZs.

[kannan infratech]

Originally Posted by madrasi7777

If the ECR is to be the hub of entertainment then a few laws must be thrown out. Why do we have this problem but other countries like Thailand, Malaysia, Srilanka, USA and Australia have their hotels and resorts on the beach and are promoting the same with gusto.WE need an SEZ (Special Entertainment Zone) with the other SEZs.

Those countries Folks have understood well that the tourism will be sustained only if they keep the place in order.

Here, we find it easy to rape the beaches and defacate and build colossal concrete structures without any thought.

But I have noticed that in Thailand also, coral reefs have been severely damaged due to excessive tourism. But they are far better than India in sustaining the nature.

[satchitananda]

I believe that is mainly due to the flaw in the thought process, Kannan. Most of us still seem to believe that we must develop at any cost OR its ok as human beings we have the right to destroy OR we cannot progress without destroying the resources.

It takes some level of maturity (many times found in west thanks to the rules in place) to understand.. Sustainable development, coexistence, harmony & prosperity.. all these go hand in hand.

Talking of Coral reefs.. There is an effort in the west to create lots of artificial reefs to repopulate.. like they drop old buses or deliberately sink (non toxic) highly outdated useless ships..
For more info see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_reef

If we could perhaps do something off of ECR where they want to have oceanarium type of stuff.. we could even use that as a touristic attraction in time.

[darkprinz]

Nice idea sachitananda ... even in discovery there was a programme which showed how they do this planning But wouldn't the movement of hovercraft , boats , n all affect the art. reefs ???

[satchitananda]

Originally Posted by darkprinz

Nice idea sachitananda ... even in discovery there was a programme which showed how they do this planning But wouldn't the movement of hovercraft , boats , n all affect the art. reefs ???

Guess not. The benefits for the corals are it gets some artifical location to propagate. As the corals network grows it creates a beautiful microcosm around itself to support other plants and animals.

Hovercraft/boats/catamarans - Since their interaction with water is minimal, I would say no. The corals dont mind this activity above, if the location is properly identified.

Why do such crazy things ? - Ecotourism can easily offset any of the costs involved. Lets say there is coral reef off mahabs/ecr which can be easily reached by speedboats with glass bottoms.. I dont mind paying Rs. 500 to take a look at the underwater world. (or maybe even Rs 1000).

If marketed ecotourism can be a sustainable source of revenue.

[kannan infratech]

Probably, we in India , TN in particular are not taught about the importance of coral reefs at all. They are the basic need for the development of marine biology & zoology.

In the name of Sethu Samudram project, coral reefs are being cut and damaged, without even understanding the impact.

In India, except Andaman and Lakshadweep regions, corals have almost died due to reckless fishing practices, shipping and pollution.

Growing corals arificially is a possibility, but it takes longer time. Most importantly, further degradation has to be stopped.

TN, with its long coast and fine weather almost throughout the year (except monsson period) can develop sea based tourism, sea sports, adventure sports in a big way.

I have seen in Thailand, that even an ordinary coast / beach has been so hyped up and tourists are milked. But the organisation - transport, hotel, food, information, advertisement etc- is excellent. No match at all.

[cofee]

Originally Posted by satchitananda

I believe that is mainly due to the flaw in the thought process, Kannan. Most of us still seem to believe that we must develop at any cost OR its ok as human beings we have the right to destroy OR we cannot progress without destroying the resources.

It takes some level of maturity (many times found in west thanks to the rules in place) to understand.. Sustainable development, coexistence, harmony & prosperity.. all these go hand in hand.

Talking of Coral reefs.. There is an effort in the west to create lots of artificial reefs to repopulate.. like they drop old buses or deliberately sink (non toxic) highly outdated useless ships..
For more info see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_reef

If we could perhaps do something off of ECR where they want to have oceanarium type of stuff.. we could even use that as a touristic attraction in time.

Recently Australian government spent $7 million to create artificial recreational dive site and reef by wrecking navy ship in Victorian coast.

Sixteen scuttling charges were detonated at 1400 hours, following towing the ship into position. Royal Australian Navy Ship Canberra was inspected the next day by civilian clearance divers to ensure it had settled safely. The wreck was opened to the public as a dive site after four mooring pylons for dive boats were installed and safety checks and remedial work were carried out.


http://www.ccarp.net/reefs.htm

In recent years a number of artificial ship reefs have been created or are being planned in Australia using obsolete or surplus ships
*** In the last 10 years ***

* Western Australia - HMAS Swan, HMAS Perth
* South Australia – HMAS Hobart
* Queensland - HMAS Brisbane
* Tasmania - the Troy D
* Victoria - HMAS Canberra
* New South Wales -HMAS Adelaide<


Artificial reef's are created for a variety of reasons, including:

* Establishing marine havens
* Modifying the marine environment
* Recreational Diving
* Scientific Research
* Replenishing fish stocks

some popular non shipwreck surfing reefs in Australia are:

Narrowneck, Queensland, Australia

Cables, Western Australia, Australia

Bagarra, Queensland, Australia


2 more artificial reefs have been commenced in 2010 in Australia, A country with plenty of world renowned natural reefs such as the great barrier reef - Looks like they cant have enough of this stuff.