daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 15th, 2009, 09:14 PM   #81
octopusop
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 107
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
I think the point he's making is that even the most powerful US made diesels are not fast enough when compared to the rest of the world standards when it comes to freight.

Freights in the US and Canada usually have the benefit of ownership, where the Freight lines own much of the tracks that its trains operate on and thus, do not have to fight for priority rights against mail and passanger traffic that travels at twice and three times its speed.

In China, however, freights have lower priority than passenger and mail travel, and therefore must travel their set distance before the next set of high speed passenger train catches up. If the freight cannot cover its distance in the set time window, it’ll be thrown onto a by-pass track until the next window. Because China’s rail networks are at capacity, this wait could possibly last over 20 hours.

This is why on China’s lines, unless you’re looking at a special line such as the Datong-Qinghuangdao line where coal trains dominate the theme, you will see freights whizzing by at at least 80kph, if not faster. Dispite the fact that the North American style 160 carriage freight dragged by 5 diesels may be a more efficient way of freight travel, you won’t see no 40km/h clunkers on China's mainlines anytime soon.

What China does love its GEs for are as switcher engines. They ain’t fast, but they sure are powerful.
you are right except one point.
China do not use GE locos as switching/shunting locos, they use American locos as jewellery in un-electrified lines.

When China reconginzed a railway line as main heavy duty line , they electrified it, same as Europe.
octopusop no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 15th, 2009, 11:38 PM   #82
Momo1435
-----アンジュルム-----
 
Momo1435's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: アルフェナンデンライン
Posts: 35,235
Likes (Received): 62975

Now your European Railway companies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New York Morning View Post
Some Italian train:

This is a Swiss train, an SBB/CFF/FFS Re 460, the picture is only taken in Domodossola in Italy on the Simplon line into Switzerland.
__________________
Support your Idols
キタ ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ ฅ(๑⊙д⊙๑)ฅ!! ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━!!!
Japan Projects & Construction
Momo1435 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2009, 12:18 AM   #83
New York Morning
BANNED
 
New York Morning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,294
Likes (Received): 423

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Now your European Railway companies.

This is a Swiss train, an SBB/CFF/FFS Re 460, the picture is only taken in Domodossola in Italy on the Simplon line into Switzerland.
Thanks for information, it is really nice/
New York Morning no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2009, 12:20 AM   #84
Jay
Registered User
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California to Barcelona
Posts: 4,056
Likes (Received): 1864

The Swiss Re's are cool but ass ugly I think... Anyways these aren't beaties but I still think they're awesome locomotives, and big...

class 66:







image hosted on flickr


euro 4000:

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


Jay no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2009, 05:42 PM   #85
Dorfmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 33
Likes (Received): 5

Belgian "monster": the HLE20 (7.000HP)

Dorfmeister no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2009, 07:55 PM   #86
UD2
A very cool person
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,294
Likes (Received): 31

Quote:
Originally Posted by octopusop View Post
you are right except one point.
China do not use GE locos as switching/shunting locos, they use American locos as jewellery in un-electrified lines.

When China reconginzed a railway line as main heavy duty line , they electrified it, same as Europe.
DF7s arn't based on GEs?
__________________
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower
UD2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2009, 09:23 PM   #87
octopusop
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 107
Likes (Received): 2

DF7s were based on DF5s (producded from 1964).
Single cab and outside corridor is not American patent.

When first GE loco entered china in 1984, DF7 series got order same time.
octopusop no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2009, 05:41 AM   #88
metsfan
Photographer
 
metsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Newtown, PA
Posts: 661
Likes (Received): 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by strandeed View Post
never understood why american locomotives have a giant slab of metal sticking out the front and tiny windows.

Looks incredibly impractical
There are locomotives with large front windows, and the slab is called a pilot, it keeps stuff like a loose rail from skewering the train & there's also the anticlimber which keeps railcars & locomotives from climing over in a crash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFish View Post
Metsfan (I'll forgive a guy from Newtown for being a Mets fan if he likes trains, LOL) the PRR's largest duplex was the S-1, not the T-1. The S-1 was single unit experimental, was 140ft long and completely impractical for regular use. Reason one being there was no place to turn it around. Turntables were not in existence on the PRR to turn something with a wheelbase that long. Too bad though, I'll bet it was awesome to see those 84" drive wheels flashing by as it pulled trains at 100+ MPH. It was used in passenger service for a few years on the road between Crestline OH and Chicago. It was used to test the dulpex theory and to show off a bit. Finding a wye to turn it on every time it made a run must have been a pain in the butt though.

The T-1 was a "production" model that was significantly smaller, almost just as fast, and a success in most estimations. There were about 50 of these and they were retired mostly because of dieselization, not because of operational shortfalls.

They also had a ten-drivered frieght duplex designated the Q-2. This monster generated just under 8,000 hpw in a test and other than drinking water faster than it could be supplied was also designated a success. Here we are almost 70 years later and there are still very few if any locomotives produced that are more powerful than this one.
I say fastest passenger locomotive, because it was not one of a kind, the S1 was a one of a kind functional demonstrator. Duplex engines failed as a design because of the surging issue (which damaged the valves), steam turbine designs failed because of the cost vs diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
They are the safest in the world that's why. Those locomotives have plowed through massive construction bulldozers with no damage (One incident happened in NY some time ago, the Bulldozer was in far worse shape than the train. however, a non-american locomotive (especially european) that hit that same bulldozer would not be in such great shape, needless to say.

They are crash resistant and don't fly on top of eachother in a collision, they also look cool i think.
In the US there is the possibility of hitting heavy objects on grade crossings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strandeed View Post
So American locomotives are built with the expectation that at some point in their lives they will crash into a bulldozer?

I'm thinking from a purely practical standpoint, would it not be better for the drivers cab to be situated as close to the front as possible for accurate buffering with some nice big windows to appreciate the scenery?

I guessing it's really a cultural difference more than anything practical.

A Euro locomotive would plow through a bulldozer with extremely similar results to the American. They are both heavy and both made of solid Steel.
The cabs are located as far forward as safety allows. That area in front known as the "short hood" houses a backup generator, sand box, and in some models, a toilet. Only yard switchers & industrial engines have the cab all the way at the front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyFish View Post
He explained why it is and he is correct. Don't take the bulldozer thing quite so literally. They are designed with the front ends they way they are for safety.

From a practical standpoint it is not better to sit closer to the front. You are less DEAD if you sit back a few feet in the event of a head on impact. The front of these locos are designed not to climb over one another in the event that they collide. They have this steel in the design to deflect the energy in an accident and go beside one another instead of up.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
In short, this is why they are designed as such

Train on the left: Driver dead
Train on the right: Driver probably doesn't feel much



and vice versa





I strongly beg to differ, this is a good example of how NOT to construct a locomotive

Engine is not fine



This is better

image hosted on flickr
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by He Named Thor View Post
No. American locomotives are built with the expectation that they will crash into a freight train.

I'm not kidding. That's FRA standards. Passenger trains like Acela have to be weighed down in order to meet safety specs (greatly increasing maintainence costs).

I would also argue that improving at-grade crossings and eliminating as many as possible (like Europe) is a much better plan than turning locomotives into tanks.
On US roads freight & pax run on the same rails quite often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
True, but there is still the danger of them crashing into another train. Locomotives are much heavier than tanks anyways, so why not build them so they can support their own weight in a crash?

Agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strandeed View Post
And here's an American locomotive that collided with another one at relatively low speed.



The engineers survived as they ran to the back of the cab before impact. The engineers on the other train jumped before impact and also survived

If a chassis collapses then that's a structural issue... nothing to do with how much metal is in front of you.

Here's food for thought.

Not a truck but then again the single locomotive was traveling at 80mph when it hits this car (huge energy involved) and to my knowledge it even had it's engine removed, thus reducing it's weight (you can see it being pushed up to speed).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekpD06P7kiI

EDIT: if my reasoning seems out please forgive me... i'm quite drunk at the moment...
That slow speed also had 1 mile long of railcars force behind it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Oh god not this discussion again.


You always come with pictures, but they don't mean anything if the other information you provide is incorrect. The driver of the light rail passenger train didn't die, he saw it coming and rushed out of the cabin and even saved lives by warning the people inside the train about the upcoming crash.

Get your facts right if you want people to see your point.

For the rest there are always the statistics that clearly show that European trains are as safe or even safer then American trains.

But let's get back to big locomotives again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by He Named Thor View Post
Yeah that's probably best.


Yes, back to big locos!

- A
__________________
Lets Go Mets!
metsfan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2009, 08:47 PM   #89
perdurabo
Silesian InExile
 
perdurabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lublin
Posts: 2,710
Likes (Received): 4753

Quote:
Originally Posted by metsfan View Post
In the US there is the possibility of hitting heavy objects on grade crossings.
in Europe also but we try to eliminate them or atleast place light/sound signals and some bariers to keep road trafic away from trains.
Quote:

On US roads freight & pax run on the same rails quite often.
same in Europe(apart from special tracks for TGV and similiar) we just use time delays, electronic trafic menagment, automatic breaks and so on, so head on meeting is almoust imposible, moust of colisions now are aginst cars or when train derails and hits something...
Quote:
Yes, back to big locos!

- A
yesss!
My country Poland.
Bigest steam locomotive tough not heaviest/fastest/moust powerfull
Pu29-3

Its pasanger loco, made in 1929 (3rd of its type only survivor sits in Koscierzyna Museum in bad shape ) it lost competition to Pt31(later Pt47 was modernised version of it) because it was too long and only few turnables could support it.
Max speed 110 Km/h
weight 182,3 t
lenght 24,5 m

moust powerfull steam locomotive, american build Ty 246

US after WW2 offered to build for Poland 100 new locomotives of any kind they desired, Poland needed heavy freight locos and wheel arangment standard for thse in PL was 1-5-0 USA Baldwin and ALCO provided those
speed 80km/h
weight 193,6 t
lenght 23,9 m
power (couldn't find but it was a bit more than Ty 51 it could pull trains well over 2700 tonnes and one even menaged to pull 3500 tonnes)

moust powerfull steem build in Poland Ty 51

When PKP (Polish State Railways) saw Ty 246 in action they decided to produce own loco similiar and Ty 51 was born

speed 80 km/h
weight 189 t
lenght 23m
power 2160 hp
perdurabo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2009, 09:22 PM   #90
perdurabo
Silesian InExile
 
perdurabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lublin
Posts: 2,710
Likes (Received): 4753

Now time for electric:
Moust powerfull freight electric loco ET42 Soviet Build based on ВЛ10 and ВЛ11

from 2008 they are in storage, they where pulling heaviest coal trains from Silesia to Gdańsk
Bo'Bo'+Bo'Bo'
speed 100km/h
weight 164t
Lenght 30,8m
power 4890 KW

longest locomotive in Poland czech ET40 (based on two skoda type 130 loco)


from 2009 also in reserve storage (tough some got new painting)
Bo'Bo'+Bo'Bo'
speed 90km/h (tough one was modified for heavy pasanger trains and made up to 160km/h! unfortunetly one part cought fire and it was rebuilt back to freight)
weight 164 t
lenght 34,4m
power 4680KW

and biggest polish built e-lok ET41 (twin version of passanger EU07 witch is license build british EU06 by English Electric in Vulcan Foundary)

weight 167t
lenght 31,8m
speed 125km'h
power 4160KW (altough they can pull up to 5000tonnes trains with 70km/h)

biggest single unit loco build in Poland is ET22

Co'Co'
speed 125 km/h (tough one prototype was made for passangers for 160km/h but it was unstable above 140)
weight 120t
lenght 19,4m
power 3120KW

but today fastest and strongest loco on Polish rails are Simens ES54U4 Taurus (with stupid Husarz name in Poland )

PKP IC bought 11 of those for fastest trains (up till now fastest one was Polish EP09 with 160 km/h and czech build EP05 also 160km/h and already build Adtranz-PaFaWag EU11/EU43 220km/h but due to financial problems sold to Italy as E405/E412)
Bo'Bo'
speed 235km/h with 3000kv DC (on AC current it broke speed record of 356km/h)
weight 87t
lenght 19,5 m
power 6400 KW with 3000kv DC
perdurabo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2009, 09:45 PM   #91
perdurabo
Silesian InExile
 
perdurabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lublin
Posts: 2,710
Likes (Received): 4753

And diesel:
up untill 2000 two locomotives where pulling heavy fright trains
ST43 (060DA from Romania)

Co'Co'
speed 100 km/h
weight 112t
lenght 17,4m
power 1544 kw (not so powerfull tough they pull realy heavy trains even in mountines)
ST44 (M62 from Soviet Union well known taiga trommel/drum or gagarin)

Co'Co'
speed 100km/h
weight 116 t
lenght 17,5 m
power 1472 kw (also dosent look so powerfull)
then polish private rail companies started buying
BR232

Polish company NEWAG modernised M62 basicly on old chasis build new loco with GE engine it was bought by few companies

and Freightliner bought Class 66

witch up until recently was bigest and moust powerfull dieel engine on Polish tracks
but Lotos just got Voight Maxima 40CC (lend for testing, prabably they will lend other types for testing too)
perdurabo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2009, 08:35 AM   #92
metsfan
Photographer
 
metsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Newtown, PA
Posts: 661
Likes (Received): 42

B&O Allegheny:



NYC Niagra class:



- A
__________________
Lets Go Mets!
metsfan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2009, 03:15 AM   #93
FlyFish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 352
Likes (Received): 83

There ya go Metsfan!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOTHING made in the world today can compare with the big steamers of the 40's and 50's. If you are going to appreciate the giant locomotives you really have to start with the steamers.


I am linky challenged but google these designations if you want to appreciate some beautiful giant locos.

Duluth, Missabe and Iron Range Yellowstone.

Southern Pacific Daylight

PRR Q-2

Union Pacific 9000

Just to name a few of my favorites


http://www.northeast.railfan.net/steam5.html

This link takes you to a picture page showing off many of the giants of yesteryear.

Last edited by FlyFish; August 21st, 2009 at 03:21 AM.
FlyFish no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2009, 12:45 PM   #94
perdurabo
Silesian InExile
 
perdurabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lublin
Posts: 2,710
Likes (Received): 4753


shame that steam won't come back
Pt47-112 -biggest steamer in service in Poland (bigger ones are siting in museums only smaller ones operate with turist trains)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWRqWy2d3-w
Pm36-2 -fastest operating stemer (130km/h it was second prototype without stremlining to compare with first prototype witch didn't survived war but could go up to 140km/h) -it isn't fastest stemer in Polish service there where Pm2 and Pm3 locos german build BR03 (Pm2 erlier without streamlining and Pm3 was streamlined, you can see both of them in Warsaw in museum)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf2NlNTq7Uo
and parade of steamers in Wolsztyn machines from diffrent depos in Poland and guests from Germany, Hungary and UK...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4XAMdRNuGk
perdurabo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2009, 02:24 AM   #95
metsfan
Photographer
 
metsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Newtown, PA
Posts: 661
Likes (Received): 42

TRAXX:



E60:


Horizontal swaying during braking & acceleration eventually sealed the fate of these units, they were not rebuilt, but scrapped or sold. Not sure if any are still in operation.

AC6000:


A failure, but a beast nonetheless. Many have been given new prime movers and downgraded to 4400 HP from 6000.

GG1:


Possibly the most famous locomotive in north america. This is probably one of the best designed rail vehicles of any kind in history, with a service life spanning from 1935 to 1983. The full power of this locomotive has never been fully measured, in certain environments it was said that it could pull a 5 mile long freight train at 70 mph, but since the only place to test are limited in track length, it remains a mystery, as does its true top speed.

M1:


Interestingly enough, the M1 was steam turbine, however he turbine powered electric generator to power electric motor.

- A
__________________
Lets Go Mets!
metsfan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2009, 03:22 AM   #96
mgk920
Nonhyphenated-American
 
mgk920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 2,583
Likes (Received): 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by metsfan View Post
TRAXX:

E60:

Horizontal swaying during braking & acceleration eventually sealed the fate of these units, they were not rebuilt, but scrapped or sold. Not sure if any are still in operation.
These units are in use on the Black Mesa and Lake Powell (note the second unit in that consist, it is in BMLP colors), an isolated coal-hauling railroad in northeastern Arizona.

Mike
mgk920 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2009, 03:32 AM   #97
metsfan
Photographer
 
metsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Newtown, PA
Posts: 661
Likes (Received): 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
These units are in use on the Black Mesa and Lake Powell (note the second unit in that consist, it is in BMLP colors), an isolated coal-hauling railroad in northeastern Arizona.

Mike
I wasn't sure if they still used them.

- A
__________________
Lets Go Mets!
metsfan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2009, 08:43 AM   #98
TedStriker
Over Macho Grande
 
TedStriker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London
Posts: 2,517
Likes (Received): 385

One the three Alco Century 855 machines, built with eight axles in a B+B+B+B arrangement (couldn't find a bigger picture!).


TedStriker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2009, 01:48 PM   #99
metsfan
Photographer
 
metsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Newtown, PA
Posts: 661
Likes (Received): 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
One the three Alco Century 855 machines, built with eight axles in a B+B+B+B arrangement (couldn't find a bigger picture!).


There ya go.

Even bigger:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../7/74/UP60.jpg

- A
__________________
Lets Go Mets!
metsfan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2009, 08:36 AM   #100
brisbanite
Registered User
 
brisbanite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,568
Likes (Received): 453

Quote:
Originally Posted by metsfan View Post

M1:


Interestingly enough, the M1 was steam turbine, however he turbine powered electric generator to power electric motor.

- A
That is one serious locomotive!!
brisbanite no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium