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Old July 21st, 2014, 07:08 PM   #1301
Bart_LCY
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Feels like watching KAL007 conference over 30 years ago.

Proficiency in lying to the whole wide world haven't changed in Russia.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 07:17 PM   #1302
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If Russia continues to back separatists in Ukraine, the costs to Russia will increase, says U.S. President Obama. -CNN


http://youtu.be/U616lCxYdHU
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Old July 21st, 2014, 07:18 PM   #1303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_LCY View Post


Feels like watching KAL007 conference over 30 years ago.

Proficiency in lying to the whole wide world haven't changed in Russia.
Can you be more specific and pinpoint the alleged lies which you are referring to in the press conference?

At least they have presented their satelite imagery and radar data, which can easily be cross references against other civilian radar data if you suspect that there is some tampering. Obama has been saying that he has evidence for days, but didn't present a single bit of data to be scrutinized by experts. He better get that published quick, unless he is bluffing
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Old July 21st, 2014, 08:01 PM   #1304
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Published: Tuesday July 22, 2014 MYT 12:25:00 AM
Updated: Tuesday July 22, 2014 MYT 12:41:49 AM

MH17: Black boxes to be handed over to Malaysia, says Najib

22 July 2014

PUTRAJAYA: Malaysia has reached an agreement with Ukrainian rebels for custody of the black boxes and access to the Malaysia airlines flight MH17 crash site, said Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak.

"At approximately 9pm tonight Ukraine time (Tues, 2am Malaysian time), the two black boxes will be handed over to the Malaysian team in Donetsk who will take custody of them," the Prime Minister said in a statement at Seri Perdana here late Monday.

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Natio...e-handed-over/
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Old July 21st, 2014, 08:05 PM   #1305
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Canada to Impose More Sanctions Against Russia

TORONTO — Jul 21, 2014, 12:03 PM ET

Associated Press


Canada says it is planning to issue further economic sanctions over sectors of the Russian economy due to Russia's continuing military actions against Ukraine.

The move comes as the world reacts with shock to the downing of a Malaysian airline over eastern Ukraine.

Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird said Monday that Russian-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine need to withdraw from the area and allow an international team of forensic experts to investigate the crash of Flight MH17.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper also issued a statement Monday saying the shooting down of MH17 is a direct result of Russia's military aggression and illegal occupation of Ukraine.


Canada has so far imposed sanctions against 110 individuals and entities considered

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ussia-24648376
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Old July 21st, 2014, 08:18 PM   #1306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EK413 View Post
[IMG]http://i59.************/2efhppw.jpg[/IMG]
Most of the bigger airlines have risk assessment staff that analyze every flight path in their network. They go beyond what the industry recommends and make independent decisions. Air Canada, British Airways, Air France, and other big carriers have been avoiding Ukraine for months.

I'm not laying blame with Malaysian Airlines, but there's a lesson to be learned here. Industry standards aren't always enough. It's wise to make ones own decisions about what is safe, what's not, and what level of risk one is comfortable with.

I never consider Health Canada's guidelines adequate, for example. There are too many people at that organization asleep at the wheel, no where near thorough enough, or who react to problems rather than being pro-active. This sort of thing goes on in most organizations which we entrust our safety to.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 08:42 PM   #1307
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MH17 crash: FT photo shows signs of damage from missile strike

The first apparent hard evidence that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was brought down by a surface-to-air missile is emerging from the crash site in eastern Ukraine, after experts confirmed on Monday there were signs of shrapnel damage to the aircraft.

The photograph above, first published by the Financial Times over the weekend, shows a piece of the downed Boeing 777 about a metre square with a gaping hole in the middle, surrounded by smaller holes and apparent burn marks.

[...]

Justin Bronk, an analyst at the Royal United Services Institute in London, said: “The size of the shrapnel holes is consistent with what one might expect to see from an SA-11 hit. However, it is difficult to assess the total blast pattern with such a small fragment of fuselage.”

Another analyst, Douglas Barrie of the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said the photographic evidence “was consistent with the kind of damage you would expect to see from the detonation of a high explosive fragmentation warhead of the type commonly used in a SAM system”.

Both analysts cautioned, however, that further work would be needed to ascertain exactly what had happened, including chemical testing for explosive residue.

One former senior Royal Air Force officer who was shown the picture said he had seen similar damage on aircraft that had been hit by flying shrapnel from rocket attacks on airbases.[...]
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/1d6a9ac2-1...#axzz387qydO4A

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Old July 21st, 2014, 09:24 PM   #1308
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http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/a...ogen-sein.html

Russian Ministery of Defense registered a ukainian Su-25 about 3.5 km of MH17 just before it crashed. Also there were ukrainian radar-activities before.
Russia calls on the US to make sattelite-images public.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 09:29 PM   #1309
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Yes...and Obama is still silent on this conference. He already had a press conference after that but didnt mention even a single word regarding what Russian Ministery of Defense has told..
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Old July 21st, 2014, 09:31 PM   #1310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggis View Post
Yes...and Obama is still silent on this conference. He already had a press conference after that but didnt mention even a single word regarding what Russian Ministery of Defense has told..
He didn't even answer any questions, just ran off straight away
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Old July 21st, 2014, 09:33 PM   #1311
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Thats what i was talking from the beginning, its all not clear. This hysteria throughout the world made by mass media regarding Russians is ridiculous. I really want that all who were involved in this cruel and wild crime were punished. And if it would be Putin and Russia it would be the same.

But facts are not so certain and it really makes me think why US makes us guilty so easily just the same day as it happened. Without having even few proof. I just want to be objective and wait for the truth. What is happening now in western media looks like the prepared persecution. And even until now US and EU didn't give even single official proof and evidence that Russia is guilty. Why?

They just talk and threaten. It's an information war currently and majority of people who listen to this easily believe it's all easy and true. But I prefer to think and wait.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 03:41 AM   #1312
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Malaysian officials receiving black boxes from Russia-backed terrorists:



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Old July 22nd, 2014, 03:50 AM   #1313
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This is getting to be quite comical. Thorough air crash investigations take months and sometimes years to complete. Within days of this crash, everybody has already concluded as to what happened & who's responsible. That's not the way forward. Inserting geopolitics into this catastrophe even before the investigations begin is pointless. Anyone remember the press releases when the US navy mistakenly shot down an Iranian civilian B747?

Everybody needs to calm down and let the investigators sort this mess out. There will be plenty of time to point fingers later.

For anybody that books a flight that normally flies through Ukrainian airspace, it would be prudent to make sure that the flight completely avoids the battlefield or the country as a whole. In times of conflict, collateral damage possibilities increase exponentially. It's mind boggling that an airline would still fly through an airspace where military aircraft have been shot down in numbers recently.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 04:17 AM   #1314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiserSoze View Post
For anybody that books a flight that normally flies through Ukrainian airspace, it would be prudent to make sure that the flight completely avoids the battlefield or the country as a whole. In times of conflict, collateral damage possibilities increase exponentially. It's mind boggling that an airline would still fly through an airspace where military aircraft have been shot down in numbers recently.
Ukraine completely closed airspace within the conflict zone. No need to worry about that.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 04:29 AM   #1315
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Well, a world hysteria regarding this has been created and rightly so. There's clearly been a pattern of Russia's strategic shift towards being at odds with the West with aggressive measures towards it's neighbouring countries but this clearly takes the cake.

If people are still skeptical of Russia's involvement in this deliberate disaster then they don't want to face the truth. It is clear they had a lot to do with this incident but are trying to shy away from it amid international backlash.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 05:49 AM   #1316
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Well, a world hysteria regarding this has been created and rightly so. There's clearly been a pattern of Russia's strategic shift towards being at odds with the West with aggressive measures towards it's neighbouring countries but this clearly takes the cake.

If people are still skeptical of Russia's involvement in this deliberate disaster then they don't want to face the truth. It is clear they had a lot to do with this incident but are trying to shy away from it amid international backlash.

"There's clearly been a pattern of Russia's strategic shift towards being at odds with the West with aggressive measures towards it's neighbouring countries"

When the Soviet Union broke down under President Gorbachev, the West assured Russia that NATO would not expand eastwards. How has that worked out since? Are you doing selective analysis to suit your agenda? The EU is Russia's biggest trading partner by a mile.

"It is clear they had a lot to do with this incident but are trying to shy away from it..."

You got any evidence to back that up?....other than that the ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine don't want to join the EU initiative?

I think we're all getting carried away by geopolitics. Lets keep this as an aviation incident, and lets wait for the complete investigation before jumping to wild & speculative conclusions.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 09:55 AM   #1317
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There are some serious unaswered questions in the air

1) Ukraine claimed to have no military planes in the vicinity of the MH17 at the time of the crash. The Russian MOD showed radar data which clearly indicates that there was a Su 25 very close to MH17, an aircraft capable of carrying air to air missiles which can shoot down the passenger plane

2) Ukraine claimed to have no SAM systems in the area at the time of the crash. Russian MOD published satelite imagery and field radar activity data showing that Ukrainian SAM systems were deployed very near to the crash site on the day. The next day these systems were pulled out

3) USA and Ukraine claimed to have evidence, including satelite imagery which allegedly captures the firing of missiles by the separatists. They should provide this evidence immediately to the investigation as it will be key information to the investigation

4) The communications between MH17 and Ukrainian air trafic control has not been made available to the investigation yet

5) The Ukrainian vice PM alleged that the separatists had tampered with the data in the black boxes, while providing no evidence of this. The experts who received the black boxes asserted that the data was untouched, althouth some were slightly damaged
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 10:55 AM   #1318
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I am very sorry that your media convey to you such distorted information. The membership of Russia to the collapse of the Malaysian Boeing is not proven and not justified. It happened on the territory of Ukraine in Ukrainian airspace is controlled by the Ukrainian military. Civilians have seen that after the collapse of the passenger liner, above it flew military aircraft, and in the sky of Ukraine can fly only Ukrainian military aircraft.

In 2001, by mistake of the Ukrainian military has already been shot down a passenger plane of airline "Siberia", EN route from tel Aviv to Novosibirsk. Then were killed by their fault 80 people! At the height of 11 thousand meters, the aircraft inadvertently knocked Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile s-200, released into the air within conducted on the Crimean Peninsula military exercises!!!!!!!

Yesterday Militiamen Donetsk national Republic passed a group of Malaysian experts "black boxes" crashed Boeing 777. In the course of its work to clarify the cause of the crash, the group of experts came under fire of the air force of Ukraine, the correspondent of The Moscow Post, citing local media.

Malaysian experts came under fire in Ukraine
It seems that the Ukrainian authorities are trying all means to disrupt the work of the international experts is studying the circumstances of the crash Malaysian Boeing in the area of Donetsk. So the Malaysian group of experts, who tried to travel to the place of the crash Boeing, came under fire of the Ukrainian aviation.

This occurred after a group of 12 Malaysian experts and government officials have arrived in Donetsk from Kharkov. Promotion of Malaysian officials in Donetsk took place with risk for life as law-enforcers began suddenly to the North of Donetsk power operation.

In particular, the Ukrainian military fired from artillery near the railway station and tried to take the village of Sands, as well as the city of Dzerzhinsk, located to the North of Donetsk.

After a group of Malaysians decided to head East to Donetsk national Republic, in the area of the crash of an airliner near the town of Torez, experts fired the air force of Ukraine.

According to militia, in the middle of the road Malaysians have witnessed the RAID Ukrainian aviation. In the eyes of international experts the planes hit the lead from Donetsk highway. One random car was burned.

When the shells exploded right next to the car, which was traveling Malaysians. By pure chance, none of the experts did not suffer. The representatives of Malaysia expressed extreme dissatisfaction with the fact that the Ukrainian side, which is responsible for the deaths of the passengers Boeing 777, has endangered the life of conducting an investigation into the cause of the crash experts.

Previously militias Donetsk national Republic (DND) handed over a "black boxes" Boeing 777 experts from Malaysia. The representatives of Malaysia expressed particular gratitude for the performance of this query Prime DND Alexander Beard. The Memorandum of transfer flight recorders was signed by the Deputy Prosecutor General DND Eduard Yakubovskiy and Mohd of Sacri.

Member of the Council of national security of Malaysia Mohd of Sacre found no traces of intervention on the "black boxes" Boeing 777, crashed in Eastern Ukraine.

"On the "black boxes" are minor damage, but visually traces of external intervention is not found," said Sacri.

This means that the militia unlike the Ukrainian authorities are doing everything possible to true causes of the crash of the company Malaysia Airlines, which was shot down on July 17, were installed. As a result of this tragedy killed 298 passengers.

The UN Security Council unanimously adopted a resolution on the crash of Boeing. An international investigation of the tragedy led the Netherlands. Independent experts believe that the Boeing 777 was shot down by a Ukrainian military.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 12:41 PM   #1319
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Vimi, stop trolling.
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Old July 22nd, 2014, 12:42 PM   #1320
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Quote:
Train carrying remains of #MH17 victims arrives in Kharkiv


https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/491508023928827904
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