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Old July 25th, 2014, 03:31 AM   #1361
Cosmin
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The previous answer linked from DLM doesn't apply to your question. That was about the small shortcut ATC gave MH17 in Ukrainian airspace. You should still see the quoted text and the image, even if you're banned from DLM though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Would you happen to know how the flightaware.com tracks the planes?
It uses a variety of sources:
Quote:
FlightAware compiles, aggregates, and processes data from over 45 government sources (in Europe, North America, and Oceania), dozens of airlines, commercial data providers, as well as hundreds of receivers in FlightAware's ADS-B flight tracking network. FlightAware's proprietary algorithms calculate delay and arrival time estimates to offer the most up-to-date and reliable flight tracking data on the Internet.

Not all worldwide data sources (e.g., most European data) or satellite/VDL data are freely available on FlightAware.com due to government regulations or commercial agreements. You can contact us if you have a commercial need for worldwide data.
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Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Does it get the full path or only some check points which it connects to make the whole track.
If it can, it will display the actual, fluid path comprised of "snapshots" of the aircraft's position taken at very short time intervals. If not, it will estimate it using proprietary algorithms and you'll probably start getting very rough approximations over large distances.
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Is this normal? How precise is flightware.com? What could induce such a change?
Not sure why they would change them, but FlightAware isn't all that good for Europe and doesn't have ADS-B coverage in most of Ukraine, so the critical portion that would interest us in the case of MH17 is estimated. If you'll look at the logs for the 12/7 and 16/7 flights, you'll see what's estimated and what's obtained from ADS-B.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M.../WMKK/tracklog

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M.../WMKK/tracklog

Taking a second look at those tracks from that blog you linked, I find it very weird that the 12/7 flight supposedly passed through Simferopol FIR. Unless you're a Russian airline, you have no business there. Two parties are offering air traffic services in the same airspace, a major concern for safety and the reason why Eurocontrol warned against using it. I wonder if FlightAware's algorithms take these restrictions into account. I'd expect so, in which case the difference might be due to a late update in the database. The route estimate was then recalculated, avoiding Simferopol FIR, but because they don't have the ADS-B data there, it's still not the real route.

I recommend you use FlightRadar24, it has much better ADS-B coverage and more user-friendly IMO.

16/7 flight (ADS-B)


12/7 flight (ADS-B)


Note: the dashed red line is the great-circle distance, provided for reference and comparison with the actual flight path. The dashed grey line is a rough approximation in the areas without ADS-B coverage.

Last edited by Cosmin; July 25th, 2014 at 03:37 AM.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 04:14 AM   #1362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
The previous answer linked from DLM doesn't apply to your question. That was about the small shortcut ATC gave MH17 in Ukrainian airspace. You should still see the quoted text and the image, even if you're banned from DLM though.
Yes, I saw the quote, but not the context...

Thx for the question. So you basically say, they updated their data without really knowing the path so when they don't have live feed they are rather guessing. Still even after the update the paths they present are quite different than the flightradar24 paths. This might be due to the rounding you mention.

I am not able to find any print screens from FlightRadar24 flights previous to the 17th july from 17th july or shortly after. It would be interesting to compare those for consistency.

NY times published this on 18 july. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2....html#diverted

The upper left are MA flights.

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Old July 25th, 2014, 05:06 AM   #1363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
So you basically say, they updated their data without really knowing the path so when they don't have live feed they are rather guessing.
Essentially yes. Ideally you'd want the ADS-B transponder data, sample it and record it and you then have the plane's position, heading, speed and altitude.

This is GPS data relayed by the aircraft's onboard ADS-B unit. It's already part of the European SESAR and the American NextGen and will likely replace radar as the primary means of surveillance and control, so it is precise.
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Still even after the update the paths they present are quite different than the flightradar24 paths. This might be due to the rounding you mention.
Because there's no actual flight path data used, even after the update, at least not for this area.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 08:53 AM   #1364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future.architect View Post
You are more likely to die on the way to the airport. Just here in the UK 2000 people a year die on the roads but it hardly makes the news.

The entire reason air crashes are news is because they are so rare.
Very true. Still the safest way to travel.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 11:18 AM   #1365
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Wreckage of the Air Algerie jetliner carrying 116 people is found near the Mali-Burkina Faso border

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Old July 25th, 2014, 12:01 PM   #1366
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Hollande says no survivors
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Old July 25th, 2014, 12:42 PM   #1367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manazir View Post
There was nothing wrong with the aircraft or the pilots of MH17 for sure. It faced something which has been witnessed only few times so far when it comes to such aviation incidents. However, in such a short time two major disasters for MH....would be surely silly to think that MH is somehow cursed or something...but still, if it was me, I would definitely not fly them for a while just to be extra careful.
i do not believe all that things....sorry still fly with MAS
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Old July 25th, 2014, 02:55 PM   #1368
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Malaysian has said that last week they only received a handful of cancellations from Dutch passengers. This with a very generous policy for cancellations this week. Worldwide the daily number of cancellations increased by just 10~15% on a daily basis.

This does not account a decline in new bookings of course. There will probably also be a dip of course, but people know that this was an act of terror that could have happened to any plane. It could have easily been Aeroflot plane that was hit, it's not like these separatist knew what they were doing when they launched the rocket.


Anyway, a very black week for aviation with 3 major crashes. Statistically there should be no crash anymore this year. Let's hope the statistics are right for a change.
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Old July 25th, 2014, 08:07 PM   #1369
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It's a freak accident, but there is also a dose of negligence in it, too. I would avoid MH because they didn't risk assess their flight paths enough. Clearly, ICAO guidelines didn't make much sense and I would fly with airlines that give a bit more consideration to perform above the bare minimum.
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Old July 26th, 2014, 11:12 AM   #1370
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I'm so fed up with lack of respect being shown to all the families with loved ones onboard MH17. The rebels are now indicating the wreckage will be removed from the crash sites in coming days.
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Old July 26th, 2014, 01:45 PM   #1371
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Sunwing Airlines flight 772 bound for Panama City was escorted back to Toronto by two US fighter jets after a passenger allegedly threatened to blow up the plane.

http://news.sky.com/story/1307900/f1...ssenger-threat
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Old July 26th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #1372
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European air safety official: Unreleased data from MH17 black box shows 'massive explosive decompression' - @CBSNews @ErinELyall
http://www.breakingnews.com/i/BuOY
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Old July 28th, 2014, 09:13 AM   #1373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
It's a freak accident, but there is also a dose of negligence in it, too. I would avoid MH because they didn't risk assess their flight paths enough. Clearly, ICAO guidelines didn't make much sense and I would fly with airlines that give a bit more consideration to perform above the bare minimum.
the Indian PMs plane was on the same path. the thing is, no one saw it coming. it is just highly unfortunate. I think MAS is still a great airline to fly with. I don't see a reason why one should avoid it.
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Old July 30th, 2014, 06:05 PM   #1374
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The ill-fated Malaysia Airlines B777 (9M-MRD) at KUL earlier this year.
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Old July 30th, 2014, 07:21 PM   #1375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidney_jec View Post
the Indian PMs plane was on the same path. the thing is, no one saw it coming. it is just highly unfortunate. I think MAS is still a great airline to fly with. I don't see a reason why one should avoid it.
It meant the Indians also did not risk assess their flight paths seriously either.

Common sense it's not wise to hover around a war zone.
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Old August 1st, 2014, 03:09 PM   #1376
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Nor did Singapore Airlines for that matter
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Old August 1st, 2014, 06:00 PM   #1377
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In the mean time, TSO (one of the first companies to stop flying over Ukraine after MH17), is now flying it normal routes over Ukraine territory.



I would suspect more and more carriers will do the same in the next few days (most likely avoiding eastern Ukraine). Going around Ukraine is costing the airlines extra fuel.
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Old August 1st, 2014, 07:13 PM   #1378
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It flies hundreds of kilometers from the area where the fights are going on...
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Old August 10th, 2014, 11:08 AM   #1379
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An-140 crashed in Tehran after take off from THR. 48 killed.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 10:02 AM   #1380
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787 Dreamliner Engine Fails Over the Atlantic

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The pilot of a 787 Dreamliner was forced to shut down one of the plane’s two engines about one and a half hours into a scheduled nine-and-a-half hour flight from the Dominican Republic to Manchester, England. The plane, one of six 787-800s owned by Thomson Airways, made a safe emergency landing in the Azores about four hours after the engine was shut down.

No explanation has been offered yet for the sudden engine loss, but this is a first for the aircraft since The Boeing Co. (NYSE: BA) delivered its first 787 in the fall of 2011. The plane entered production about 4 years late and cost the company about 5-times the original $6 billion estimate. Thomson Airways was Boeing’s U.K. launch customer and received its first 787 in June of 2013.

The first major issue with the plane was a delamination of the composite skin on the plane’s fuselage. A more spectacular problem arose when a battery pack in a parked 787-800 ignited. The problems with the lithium-ion batteries appears to have been sorted out, but that caused a three-month ban on all flights of the 787 in early 2013.

The General Electric Co. (NYSE: GE) built the GEnx-1B engines that are used on the Thomson 787-800 fleet. A different version of the engine, the GEnx-2B, is also used on Boeing’s latest version of its jumbo jet, the 747-8, and a series of incidents involving both engines caused the National Transportation Safety Board to have all the engines inspected in October of 2012.

While the engine loss gave the passengers a fright — one little girl asked her parents, “What if we don’t make it?” — modern airplane engines installed on two-engine planes like the 787 are designed to be able to complete their full flight from any point on the flight plan with just one operating engine. We’re sure that doesn’t make a passenger’s experience any less terrifying.

http://247wallst.com/aerospace-defen...-the-atlantic/
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