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Old March 27th, 2015, 01:54 PM   #1541
kronox echo7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
It´s safe until something happends. For those 150 passengers aboard the Germanwings flight 9525 it wasnt safe, it was lethal.
If there is a malfunction aboard your mode of transport, what would you choose to travel with?
Car, bus, ferry, train or aircraft ?

Same thing with nuclear power stations. Yes those are safe, but only until an accident occurs.
If you look at the FlightRadar map right now, there are thousands of planes in the sky carrying hundreds of thousands of people through totally different destinations. It doesn't mean their lives are at stake every second. It's also a matter of chance.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 02:35 PM   #1542
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Air travel still is the safest way to travel, it has by far the lowest fatality rate per passenger kilometer of all modes of transportation. The chances to survive an air crash are also very high, as most crashes happen at landing where the speed is slow an controlled.

But it's correct that when something goes completely wrong you will still have a very large number of fatalities. And that is something that is frightening, especially since flying is still considered as something special for most people. Driving your car or walking on the street is routine, and therefor your brain doesn't think about the possibilities of a fatal accident all the time. Simply because it would completely disable you to function properly in normal day to day life.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 04:03 PM   #1543
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Unfortunately, most of the time people only remember the accidents with lot's of casualties. Yes, when some serious accident occurs, chances of survival may be higher in a car than in a plane, but still many aviation accidents actually happen to be survivable. Remember the Turkish Airlines crash at Schiphol Amsterdam Airport back in 2009? The airplane broke into three pieces after it had stalled on approach. In that crash, 'only' 9 lives were lost (out of 135). And what about the Hudson River crash? All 155 crew and passengers survived that accident. Visit the Aviation Safety Network website here if you want to have a look yourself on how survivable aviation accidents are.

As a matter of fact, like so many already said in previous posts, flying is by far the safest way to travel. In the case of Germanwings, where the co-pilot deliberately hit a mountain with over 700 km/h, there is just no chance of survival. If some pilot wants to bring a plane down, he/she will always find a way to do it, no matter of the safety regulations. Most accidents though, about 80%, happen in the minutes prior to landing or in the first few minutes after departing, where speed is relatively low, and a well educated cockpit-crew is willing to bring the plane down safely when something goes wrong.

A crash like the Germanwings one is - fortunately - quite rare... In my opinion (these kind of) accidents should never lead to people avoiding flying.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 06:06 PM   #1544
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If the co-pilot had depression problems he should've not even reach the cockpit of a plane. A depression could strike in any moment. The copilot sets on the entry lock inside the cockpit, lower the altitude on VNAV and that's it...
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Old March 27th, 2015, 06:11 PM   #1545
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The thing with driving a car is that if you drive carefully, you greatly reduce chances for an accident (at least in the developed world).
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Old March 27th, 2015, 06:23 PM   #1546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
The thing with driving a car is that if you drive carefully, you greatly reduce chances for an accident (at least in the developed world).
Unless someone driving around you doesn't. You have no control over that. A lot of deadly driving accidents that I see (I watch a lot of dashcam clips) actually kill people that weren't the ones that fvcked up.

Some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFIJHzThzL0
^Wouldn't click that if you can't handle some serious crashes. There's no blood or anything, but they aren't exactly fender-benders ^

You tell me how many drivers fvcked up someone else's life, or, if they died, their family's life.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 06:56 PM   #1547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAlpine View Post

A crash like the Germanwings one is - fortunately - quite rare... In my opinion (these kind of) accidents should never lead to people avoiding flying.
The aviation supporters will always defend flying no matter what happends. It's safe and disasters like the Germanwings crash or the incidents with Malaysian Airlines flights 17 and 370 those are rare.

Lets say want to go from Barcelona to Dusseldorf. What mode of transport would you choose?

1) Bus with Andreas Lubitz the bus driver.
2) Train with Andreas Lubitz the locomotive operator.
3) Boat with Andreas Lubitz the riverboat captain. (through canal du Midi)
4) Airplane with Andreas Lubitz the pilot.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 07:02 PM   #1548
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It is the truth; not a matter of "defending". I challenge you to look at the statistics.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 07:02 PM   #1549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
1) Bus with Andreas Lubitz the bus driver.
2) Train with Andreas Lubitz the locomotive operator.
3) Boat with Andreas Lubitz the riverboat captain. (through canal du Midi)
4) Airplane with Andreas Lubitz the pilot.
Neither. Car. Not because I dislike flying, I just like driving. But if I needed to be there fast (for whatever reason) whatever would get me there fastest, so probably the plane.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 07:37 PM   #1550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Unless someone driving around you doesn't. You have no control over that. A lot of deadly driving accidents that I see (I watch a lot of dashcam clips) actually kill people that weren't the ones that fvcked up.

Some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFIJHzThzL0
^Wouldn't click that if you can't handle some serious crashes. There's no blood or anything, but they aren't exactly fender-benders ^

You tell me how many drivers fvcked up someone else's life, or, if they died, their family's life.
I didn't say you eliminate chance for an accident, I said you greatly reduce it, which is true. Chances for an accident are still pretty high in countries with terrible drivers, but much much lower in countries with normal drivers. If you drive recklessly, you have much higher chance for an accident.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 08:01 PM   #1551
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Neither. Car. Not because I dislike flying, I just like driving. But if I needed to be there fast (for whatever reason) whatever would get me there fastest, so probably the plane.
The point is that a deranged busdriver can crash the bus and you still have a pretty good chance to survive.

If You drive your car it feels safe because you control your car. Even if a depressed lunatic wants o crash his car into your car you can avoid a collision by steering to the side.

A deranged train operator can overrun a red signal and collide with another train, still you may survive. The ICE train crash in Eschede Germany in 1998 caused the death of 101 people, but 194 passengers survived.

A deranged captain of a ship like the Costa concordia caused the death of 30 people out of the 4 234 passengers. 710 out of the 1514 passengers on The Titanic survived.

The depressed pilot Andreas Lubitz caused the death of all the 150 people onboard the Germanwings flight. No one survived. Same thing with the MH17 & 370 and the AF447. The lives and deaths of those passengers were in the hands of the flight crew.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 08:31 PM   #1552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I
Same thing with nuclear power stations. Yes those are safe, but only until an accident occurs.
Only 3 major nuclear accidents in the history. A coal plant polutes everyday with tons of CO2
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Old March 27th, 2015, 09:06 PM   #1553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EduardSA View Post
- Craig Albrechtson at Huffington Post

Also a video explaining the locking system:

So this is what journalists have failed to clarify: if you watch the video, at 3:15 it explains the manual locking procedure from inside the cockpit. The pilot can voluntarily lock the cockpit from any intrusion for 5 minutes. This is undoubtedly what Lubitz did once the captain realised what was going on.
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Old March 27th, 2015, 11:46 PM   #1554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
The point is that a deranged busdriver can crash the bus and you still have a pretty good chance to survive.

....
Does it really matter when you die in an accident that you die together with a hundred other people in a very rare air crash or that you are the only fatality in a more common small bus crash?

I think that most people think that it accidents only happen to other people, and for most people that is actually true. And those people also don't care about the statistics that clearly show that air travel is actually the safest way to travel. This is a way for people simply accept risks, because they don't want to think survivability. It's something very irrational, but hey, we are all irrational people. It's your choice that you don't want to fly anymore, that's your full right.
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Old March 28th, 2015, 07:02 AM   #1555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
The point is that a deranged busdriver can crash the bus and you still have a pretty good chance to survive.
My point is that I hear of deadly bus crashes at least once a month and only hear about deadly plane crashes 2 or 3 times a year. Also, you're making it seem as if all plane crashes ever resulted in everyone dying. That's not the case. There have been bus crashes where everyone died as well (fell into a cliff) but you seem to be ignoring them because you find them a rarity. The thing you need to realise is that that's the same with plane crashes where everybody gets killed. It's a rarity (luckily).

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
If You drive your car it feels safe because you control your car. Even if a depressed lunatic wants o crash his car into your car you can avoid a collision by steering to the side.
Look at the video I posted and if you really watched it, you'd revise that statement.

You can hate all on planes you want, maybe it's just me but if I die, I die. That's life (well, the end of it). It's gonna happen someday anyway. I'd prefer to it not being tomorrow, but it could. Whether I step into a car or a plane. I just can't relate to your panicking over a couple of plane crashes a year while hundreds and hundreds of planes take off and land everyday. It's the same extend on not wanting to get into a train cause it might crash or not daring to walk outside cause a meteor could fall on your head

I had a classmate like that in 8th grade. She was shitting her pants on going on schooltrip with us because she was afraid that the train would derail and that the ferry would sink.
And yet we all lived happily ever after.
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Old March 28th, 2015, 08:21 AM   #1556
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People...any individual may decide they will go...be gone from this world...but most don't have 150 or more people attached to your decision...a bus, a few, a car maybe another innocent car...people are people and some make decisions that upset the world...! and many innocent people and extended families that don't need to get involved in your personal trauma...but you weren't thinking about any of that I guess ?

I don't mean to sound oblivious to my last words but this pilot...with all he was thinking, what statement could he make...a big statement if he was ill ? I mean, he seemed to be a health or fitness fanatic..or at least valued being fit...he was in a relationship, that may have ended recently ? So...if he lost his love...lost his health ( in the medium long term ) he thought why bother to go on...He flies a jet aeroplane...heck, that would be very quick and no chance of anyone reviving him and him living a life on machines...whatever ? I don't mean to sound flippant ! This is tragic...but the means to make an angry and final response was available to him...not saying it was correct...but in his mind...an easy choice ?
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Last edited by redbaron_012; March 28th, 2015 at 08:27 AM.
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Old March 28th, 2015, 10:57 AM   #1557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
My point is that I hear of deadly bus crashes at least once a month and only hear about deadly plane crashes 2 or 3 times a year.
I certainly dont hear very often (if ever) about bus crashes where all the people aboard instantly died. A bus can't take more than 75 passengers which is half the number of the 150 passengers onboard the Germanwings 9525.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
Also, you're making it seem as if all plane crashes ever resulted in everyone dying. That's not the case.
The probability that everyone aboard will die is higher on a plane than on a bus. Let's say there's a fire, enigine malfunction or ill driver on the bus.
What would happend ? Yes, you stop the bus. It's not that easy if the same thing happends on an airplane 10.000m up inte sky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
There have been bus crashes where everyone died as well (fell into a cliff) but you seem to be ignoring them because you find them a rarity. The thing you need to realise is that that's the same with plane crashes where everybody gets killed. It's a rarity (luckily).
If a bus falls into a cliff, it's not going to be at 700km/h. A bus passenger has the possibility to brake the window with an emergency hammer, this is nothing you can do with a window of a plane.


Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
You can hate all on planes you want, maybe it's just me but if I die, I die. That's life (well, the end of it). It's gonna happen someday anyway. I'd prefer to it not being tomorrow, but it could. Whether I step into a car or a plane. I just can't relate to your panicking over a couple of plane crashes a year while hundreds and hundreds of planes take off and land everyday. It's the same extend on not wanting to get into a train cause it might crash or not daring to walk outside cause a meteor could fall on your head
I like planes but I dont like air travel. After you have boarded the airplane you are totally out of control until you arrive at the destination. If you go by train you can get off at the next station or in case of an accident pull the emergency brake. On a ferry there are lifeboats. Your are a 100% in control of your car.

Last edited by NordikNerd; March 28th, 2015 at 11:39 AM.
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Old March 28th, 2015, 11:38 AM   #1558
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Look...you or me take any chance of travel in our own being...If you travel by a bike, you figure you will get there eventually...cast aside a random chance of evil...if it doesn't make the front page of newspapers you got there ....good ok...If you drive, you drive carefully, you will get there, unless a random nut case stuffs your journey and you get on the front page of the newspapers...If you go by bus you will get there but if the bus falls from a cliff whatever you will make the front page of the newspaper...make 'hit' news around the world...and if your on an airliner...'World News' life...works like that...but going back to square one...if your life is gone...it is about as sad as anything...because you were worth it...forget the media hype...multiples are worse but you...you ahhh, I miss you : (
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Old March 28th, 2015, 12:31 PM   #1559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
A bus can't take more than 75 passengers
Uhuh...




Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
The probability that everyone aboard will die is higher on a plane than on a bus.
And that is relevant because? I really don't see the point you're trying to make. So if a plane crashes there's more chance that everyone dies as opposed to 'only' a few people? Well that's very useful to know if you're the one person in a bus crash that died. People die in accidents. Plane, bus whatever. Deal the **** with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
What would happend ? Yes, you stop the bus. It's not that easy if the same thing happends on an airplane 10.000m up inte sky.
What'd happen when the driver gets ill? The bus would probably ram into the guardrail without you being able to do anyhting (cause you'd most likely only notice that the bis driver went ill when it crashes) You have very little chance of stopping that bus before it's too late. Say about the chance that you're travelling with a fellow pilot on a plane when the actual pilot falls ill and the passneger-pilot takes over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
If a bus falls into a cliff, it's not going to be at 700km/h. A bus passenger has the possibility to brake the window with an emergency hammer, this is nothing you can do with a window of a plane.
A person on a plane has the possibility to do that as well.
Oh you meant they died when they crashed? Oh yeah, because when a bus falls into a cliff everyone's gonna be alive in that bus after it's fallen in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I like planes but I dont like air travel. After you have boarded the airplane you are totally out of control until you arrive at the destination. If you go by train you can get off at the next station or in case of an accident pull the emergency brake. On a ferry there are lifeboats. Your are a 100% in control of your car.
You can get off at the next station. Yeah that's ******* useful when the train derails between two stations. How about you see a plane as a train between stations (in this case airports). What are you gonna do then huh? And an emergency brake is useless after the train has been rammed or derailed. You seem to be drawing the conclusion that everyone that travels by anything but plane somehow knows exactly when an accident is about to occur. Newsflash: they don't. That's why crashes happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
Your are a 100% in control of your car.
Yes but not over OTHER PEOPLE'S CARS. You still haven't watched the video haven't you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFIJHzThzL0
Am I talking to a ******* wall or what?



Also, I find it really stupid that the word f-u-ck is censored. What is this, American television?
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Old March 28th, 2015, 02:36 PM   #1560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
The point is that a deranged busdriver can crash the bus and you still have a pretty good chance to survive.

A deranged train operator can overrun a red signal and collide with another train, still you may survive. The ICE train crash in Eschede Germany in 1998 caused the death of 101 people, but 194 passengers survived.

A deranged captain of a ship like the Costa concordia caused the death of 30 people out of the 4 234 passengers. 710 out of the 1514 passengers on The Titanic survived.

The depressed pilot Andreas Lubitz caused the death of all the 150 people onboard the Germanwings flight. No one survived. Same thing with the MH17 & 370 and the AF447. The lives and deaths of those passengers were in the hands of the flight crew.
First off, the Eschede train disaster was not the fault of the driver, rather with one of the wheels on one of the carriages, so it was an issue of technical/mechanical fault, however u wanna call it....

As for MH 17, we clearly know that it was shot down, how is it the flight crews' fault?? They obviously can't do much when a missile is striking up the aircraft's ass...its not a fighter jet! MH 370 is still a mystery, God knows what happened but flight crews' intentions can't be ruled out yet...
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