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Old March 28th, 2010, 04:18 PM   #141
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3d search to begin in Air France accident

RECIFE, Brazil - The lead investigator of last year's Air France jet crash that killed 228 people off the coast of Brazil said yesterday that he hoped a third search for debris and for the jet's flight and data recorders would succeed and help authorities determine what happened.

Officials say locating the recorders is crucial, since the 1,000 pieces of wreckage already recovered have provided no concrete information on what caused the Paris-bound Airbus A330 to crash over the Atlantic on June 1, killing everyone aboard.

The 30-day operation, to begin next week after search ships sail Sunday for the mid-Atlantic, will scour an area of seabed only one-tenth of that combed in two previous efforts, Jean-Paul Troadec, chief of the BEA French investigation agency, said at a news conference.

The smaller area was pinpointed through a collaborative effort by scientists - including from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts - to reconstruct the trajectory of Flight 447's debris and the time the wreckage was found, giving investigators a better idea where to look, Troadec said.

"We think we have a good chance of finding the wreckage," he said.

Without the information from the recorders, investigators will probably never know why the jet, which took off from Rio de Janeiro, flew straight into huge thunderstorms that other trans-Atlantic flights on similar routes took pains to avoid that day. Based on information gathered so far, investigators believe the Airbus was intact when it struck the ocean.

Troadec said the investigation so far had shown that if the recorders were not found, "this investigation could never be conclusive and this accident could remain largely unexplained."

The latest search will employ two ships. One will deploy three sonar-equipped robot submarines weighing more than 5 metric tons each to search the seabed. The other will use sonar machines dragged on cables underwater to pore over the 770-square-mile target area.

Troadec said the wreckage was most likely located on a rough, mountainous seabed, perhaps as much as 13,100 feet below the surface.

The new $13.3 million search is jointly financed by Airbus and Air France. The U.S. Navy and the National Transportation Safety Board will help.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/world_us/89250237.html
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Old April 10th, 2010, 11:14 AM   #142
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Polish President and many VIPs died in crash at Smolensk, Russia

Polish president feared dead in Russian plane crash 10 Apr 2010 08:08:27 GMT
Source: Reuters
* Plane crashed in fog near Smolensk airport

* Russian agencies say 132 on board

* Polish state news agency says no survivors

* Other senior Polish officials on board

(Adds details, background)

By Lidia Kelly

SMOLENSK, Russia, April 10 (Reuters) - Polish president Lech Kaczynski was feared dead after his plane crashed on approach to a Russian airport on Saturday, a Polish government official at the airport told Reuters.

Russian news agencies reported at least 87 people died in the crash near Smolensk airport in western Russia, citing the Russian Emergencies Ministry. They reported 132 people were aboard the Tupolev Tu-154.

Polish state news agency PAP said there were no survivors.

The Polish government official in Smolensk said there was no information about survivors. The crash occurred about 1.5 km (a mile) from Smolensk airport in foggy conditions.

The official said the head of the Polish army and the head of the presidential administration were also on board the plane, along with the president's wife and families of other senior officials.

"The plane caught fire after the crash. Teams began attempting to pull out passengers from the badly damaged airplane," said a Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman in Warsaw. (Additional reporting by Robin Paxton and Maria Kiselyova in Moscow and Chris Borowski in Warsaw; writing by Robin Paxton; editing by Andrew Roche).

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE63902A.htm
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Old April 10th, 2010, 02:35 PM   #143
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Awful news today since morning, Rest in Peace for all of them, cant believe its a reality
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Old April 10th, 2010, 04:03 PM   #144
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My sincere condolences to the Polish people. RIP.

This is the presidential Tu-154M that crashed today...

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Polan...54M/1357825/L/
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Old April 10th, 2010, 04:40 PM   #145
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They all were going to celebrate the 70th anniversary of The Katyn massacre, which was a mass murder of many thousands of Polish primarily military officers, intellectuals, policemen, and other public servants by Soviets. Now again at the same fatal place the "creme de la creme" of the polish society were killed in the plane crash.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 05:19 PM   #146
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RIP that is terrible
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Old April 10th, 2010, 07:30 PM   #147
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RIP...
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Old April 10th, 2010, 08:07 PM   #148
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Those people were to celebrate a sad event, and they end up sadly too... Life is so ironic...

RIP
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Old April 10th, 2010, 08:55 PM   #149
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88 passengers and 8 crew members killed - everybody on board. The President, the First Lady, prominent members of his cabinet, deputies and senators from all parties in parliament including vicepresidents os both chambers, two out of three major candidates in planned for autumn presidential elections, several ministers and bishops, top commanders of Army, Navy and Airforce, president of National Bank of Poland, president of Polish Olympic Comitee, the Ombudsman and presidents of several other state agencies, several legends of anticommunism oposition and many, many others...

We've lost many members of nation's elite. Twice. The Katyn Forest massacre was a thorn in polish-russian relations for 70 years. Perhaps this symbolic, ironic tragedy will help to improve those relations by closing this painfull chapter of our history. May they rest in peace...

Last edited by 1000city; April 10th, 2010 at 09:18 PM.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 10:01 AM   #150
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Recent Tupolev-154 crashes
The Associated Press – Sat Apr 10, 5:56 am ET

Recent fatal plane crashes involved the Soviet-built Tupolev-154.

• April 10, 2010: The Polish presidential plane crashes on approach to Smolensk airport, Russia, killing all on board.

• July 15, 2009: A Caspian Airlines Tu-154 flying from Iran to Armenia nosedives into a field, killing 168 people.

• Sept. 1, 2006: A Tu-154 jetliner operated by Iran Airtour skids off the runway and catches fire while landing in the northern city of Mashad, Iran, killing 80 of 147 passengers.

• Aug. 22, 2006: A Tu-154 of Russia's Pulkovo Airlines with about 170 people aboard crashes during a thunderstorm in Ukraine en route from a Black Sea resort to St. Petersburg, killing all aboard.

• Aug. 24, 2004: A Tu-154 operated by Sibir Airlines crashes en route from Moscow to the Black Sea resort of Sochi, killing all 46 people aboard. The crash was later determined to be caused by explosives brought on board by a Chechen suicide bomber.

• July 1, 2002: A Bashkirian Airlines Tu-154 flying to Barcelona, Spain, from Ufa, Russia, collides with a cargo plane over Germany, killing 71, including 52 children.

• Feb. 12, 2002: A Tu-154 airliner operated by Iran Airtour carrying 119 people smashed into snow-covered mountains near its destination of Khorramabad, 230 miles southwest of Tehran, killing all aboard.

• Oct. 4, 2001: A Sibir Airlines Tu-154 flying from Tel Aviv, Israel, to Novosibirsk, Russia, explodes and plunges into the Black Sea, killing 78 people, most of them Israeli citizens. It was later determined the plane was hit by a Ukrainian missile during military training exercises.

• July 3, 2001: A Tu-154 operated by the Vladivostokavia airline en route from Yekaterinburg in the Ural Mountains to Vladivostok crashes in the Siberian city of Irkutsk, killing all 145 on board.

• Feb. 24, 1999: A China Southwest Airlines Tu-154 flying from Chengdu crashes on approach to Wenzhou, 800 miles southeast of Beijing, killing all 61 people aboard.

• Aug. 29, 1998: A Cubana Tu-154 flight from Quito to Havana crashes just after takeoff, killing 79 people, including 10 on the ground when the plane plowed into a soccer field.

• Dec. 15, 1997: A Tajikistan Airlines Tu-154 crashes in the United Arab Emirates, killing 85 passengers and crew.

• Aug. 29, 1996: A Vnukovo Airlines Tu-154 passenger plane carrying Russian and Ukrainian miners and their families from Moscow to Norway crashes into a mountain, killing all 141 on board.

• Dec. 7, 1995: A Tu-154 operated by Aeroflot Khabarovsk Airlines with 97 people on board disappeared flying to the far eastern Russian city of Khabarovsk. The remains were found 11 days later by a helicopter pilot in mountains near the Pacific coast.

• June 6, 1994: A China Northwest Airlines Tu-154 bound for Guangzhou crashes minutes after takeoff from Xian, a tourist city in northern China, killing all 160 people aboard.

• Jan. 3, 1994: All 124 people aboard a Moscow-bound Baikal Airlines Tu-154 are killed when it crashes into a snowy field near the town of Irkutsk. A farmer on the ground was also killed.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 11:28 AM   #151
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This Tupolev-154 received major refurbishing and repair in December 2009, including rebuilding all of the engines with a next planned repair after 6 years only. Weather conditions at Smolensk were really poor with a heavy fog. Due to low visibility (400m), the Air Traffic Controllers proposed to the crew to divert to another airport (Moscow VKO, Minsk or Vitebsk), but the crew still made the decision to land in Smolensk. The crew attempted 4 approaches on Smolensk airport that ended up with death of 97 people

I hope this awful tragedy would not influence on already bad relations between Russia and Poland, because russians mourning same as polish, people accepted it as their own tragedy, RIP.



Last edited by Iggis; April 11th, 2010 at 11:34 AM.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 01:35 PM   #152
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R.I.P.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 02:02 PM   #153
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Seems like initial news were slightly missinforming. The latest press releases say, that the plane encircled the airfield three times, but did only one, fatal approach. It hit 50 meters tall antenna 1 kilometer from the runway and crashed soon after:
[IMG]http://i42.************/zpsvs.jpg[/IMG]

Investigation will explain whether it was human error or plane malfunction.


As for PL-RUS relations: many people here in Poland actually do hope, that this tragedy will help to improve them. Russian state showed some goodwill in past days and weeks, yesterday pres. Miedviediev and p.m. Putin seemed really touched, today TV Rossija is to broadcast Adndrzej Wajda's "Katyń", a lot of good gestures and words come from Russians to Poles - things are going the right way. The very time for that - WWII, occupation, communism etc. are over, it's time to look at future.

Dziękujemy Rosjanom za Wasze reakcje.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 02:40 PM   #154
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Is there any speculation whether it was a mechanical fault or pilot error?
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Old April 11th, 2010, 02:55 PM   #155
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There're speculations and nothing more. We need to wait to the end of investigation - at the moment in media pilot's error is considered more probable than malfunction. But as I say it's nothing but speculation.
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Old April 11th, 2010, 05:21 PM   #156
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Russian and Polish authorities are now in a high cooperation to know the cause of this crash. But i guess, we will know the truth only if it will be suitable for public, because after this crash more and more journalists recognized a case with polish plane #1 in 2008 when President Kaczynski was on his way to Tbilisi, that day Air traffic control told the pilot to turn back because it was too dangerous to land, but the President ordered the pilot to land regardless. The pilot refused to land in Georgia's capital despite the direct intervention, but the incident highlights the differing protocols and conflicts possible on a VIP flight.

I dont think it could be a mechanical fault, the plane was after full refurbishment. I am sure officials would not use a plane if it was in a bad condition, absolutely sure. For me as a russian, its just a pity thing that foreign mass media now try to make accent that it was Tupolev, that it is soviet produced, but its just a propaganda as usual, it wont help us to have back all dead people, we just need to wait for official investigation results and to memorize all people and look for a brighter future between 2 countries, i agree with 1000city, now is the right time to open a new page in our relations, because we are now different, new generation is different and all people i know here in Russia want peace and friendship, despite propaganda, i hope it will happen.
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Old April 12th, 2010, 08:54 AM   #157
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Polish plane crash highlights 'lamentable' fleet

WARSAW, April 10 (Reuters) - The crash of a Polish official airliner that killed the president and dozens of top officials on Saturday highlights the condition of the government's air fleet, called "lamentable" by many critics.

The government has debated whether to replace its fleet of Soviet-era airplanes used for official visits, the oldest one of which is some 40-years old, but did not take the step fearing a voter backlash over large expenditures.

"We all know these planes were in lamentable condition," said Adam Rotfeld, a prominent Polish diplomat and former foreign minister said.

"This is an enormous tragedy, but it reminds us that top state representatives should really be travelling in the safest machines available."

The Tupolev Tu-154 which crashed on Saturday in Smolensk, claiming 97 lives, was manufactured in 1990. It underwent a major overhaul last year after it was grounded several times due to technical troubles.

The government also owns a second TU-154 and four smaller Yak-40s, along with 11 helicopters.

The larger Polish planes consume much more fuel than modern airlines and need to refuel at least once on longer routes, such as when flying to the United States.

A government helicopter carrying then Prime Minister Leszek Miller crashed in cold weather in 2003 due to heavy icing. All onboard survived, but Miller had to wear a backbrace after his hospital stay.

Due to frequent groundings, Kaczynski and Prime Minister Tusk had feuded several times over who would use the second TU-154 on several state visits and European Union summits.
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Old April 12th, 2010, 11:46 AM   #158
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I knew this would be the main course of polish officials in this case, pity because its not objective at all.
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Old April 12th, 2010, 12:14 PM   #159
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It's not "the main course". The fleet replacement subject comes back like a boomerang for many years, this is just another ocassion. Technical issues are not considered as very probable cause - neither by officials nor by journalists.
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Old April 12th, 2010, 12:32 PM   #160
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In the following days you'll read/hear a lot of frustrated and prejudiced individuals ready to bash the Polish crew or the Russian jet. Some will even claim special insight or former investigative experience (seen a few of these in Romania already), but the sad truth is that these people probably don't have any such insight or experience and can't go beyond their own prejudices towards Poles or Russians.

Don't pay attention to them or to the badly written articles you'll see. Just wait for the officials and more details.
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