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Old August 24th, 2009, 02:52 PM   #41
Clashman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovecz View Post
Those problems exist anywhere. No grown man would expect things exactly like in the pictures I think.
I think you are underestimating the extent to which they occur in China in comparison to the rest of the world. In the U.S. or in Europe, the construction of a single building or subway line can trigger months or even years of planning, soil testing, environmental studies, and so on. In China, there are cases where plans for residential areas housing a hundred thousand people or more are banged out within the space of 3 or 4 weeks. I've lived in brand new residential areas where quarter inch cracks in the concrete appeared after a year. That is not an exception to the rule. Finding a 3-5 year old building here that doesn't suffer from major cracking of the facade, water damage from leaky ceilings, or poorly designed windows and air-conditioning/heating systems is somewhat rare. Heck, there are still 50-60+ story office buildings that aren't even built with central air, just thousands upon thousands of individual, room-based units, which seems incredibly inefficient, although I'm not an engineer, so maybe I'm wrong on that.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 03:08 PM   #42
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I know a European construction consultant working in Shanghai and he says exactly the opposite. He claims that unlike in most developed countries, you rarely can hear your neighbor's telephone or loud conversations in a Chinese apartment (constructed in the last 5-8 years). All the large projects are certified by international standards (ISO, etc), and many of them are supervised by first tier engineering consultants, such as Arup, etc. They built a lot of crap in the 90s, but nowadays they only build with a very high quality.
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Old August 26th, 2009, 10:53 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
I know a European construction consultant working in Shanghai and he says exactly the opposite. He claims that unlike in most developed countries, you rarely can hear your neighbor's telephone or loud conversations in a Chinese apartment (constructed in the last 5-8 years). All the large projects are certified by international standards (ISO, etc), and many of them are supervised by first tier engineering consultants, such as Arup, etc. They built a lot of crap in the 90s, but nowadays they only build with a very high quality.
Well, crap. I had a huge response to this, and it just got eaten up by a firefox crash.

Suffice it to say that, while things are improving, there is still a long way to go. Just because a company has certificates showing standards compliance, it does not mean the standards are actually there. This is particularly true in China, where bribery, false contracts, and materials substitution is practically required to get any project done. Also, the reason why you can't hear your neighbors, (unless they are drilling into the concrete, which is surprisingly often), is that most walls are 2 foot thick concrete. While this does great things for noise reduction, when things such as earthquakes are involved, they can lead to disaster if they aren't properly reinforced. Which, given the cost cutting often involved in building construction, is not a rare occurence.
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Old August 26th, 2009, 11:44 AM   #44
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Well in China you have typhoons, earthquakes and floods all the time. In most developing countries these disasters cause very serious damage in urban areas. If the situation was so terrible in China most cities would look like Hiroshima once and again. Maybe there are many problems concerning bribery, etc (this is common even in the developed world), but the quality of the new constructions is excellent and very solid, unlike in certain developed countries where hurricanes blow up the whole houses while their inhabitants have to hide underground
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Old August 26th, 2009, 01:23 PM   #45
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There (luckily) hasn't been a major earthquake to hit a major Chinese city in the last 10 years. Earthquakes have hit here and done major damage, though, (see the 2008 Sichuan Earthquake). When a 7.0 or higher earthquake hits a major city in China again, it's a pretty safe bet that it's going to cause a heck of a lot of damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...uakes_in_China
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Old August 27th, 2009, 05:45 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clashman View Post
There (luckily) hasn't been a major earthquake to hit a major Chinese city in the last 10 years. Earthquakes have hit here and done major damage, though, (see the 2008 Sichuan Earthquake). When a 7.0 or higher earthquake hits a major city in China again, it's a pretty safe bet that it's going to cause a heck of a lot of damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...uakes_in_China
new built chinese highrises can resists 8 gread earthquake.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 06:48 AM   #47
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Congratulations on the fast development of China.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 07:05 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clashman View Post
While I will be the first person to say that China has a lot of amazing architecture being produced, there is also plenty of kitschy crap to go around, (anyone remember that 250 meter oil lamp they were going to produce in Zhongshan, or somewhere like that?). What you see in the supertalls list here generally represents the best of what's being produced here, and even then, what you see in the renders isn't always what ends up getting produced, and there are often tons of corners cut in order to make time or budget requirements. Also, renders of huge masterplans and overall building schemes don't usually show the nitty gritty details of how the building is supposed to work, and often those detailed plans don't even get made, so what you may end up with is a physically beautiful building that is functionally a complete and total mess. Once again, there are loads of beautifully constructed buildings going up in China right now, but the pictures here don't tell the whole story.
Thanks for the information, and your point is well taken. I can only comment on the renders or photos I see here.

Just completed here in Philly is the Ritz-Carlton Residences tower with 48 Floors ... not 44 as described in SSC, which actually turned out even more beautiful in real life than the renders offered to the public 2, 3 years ago ... they decided on a sapphire-blue glass cladding that is stunning.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 12:33 AM   #49
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SEPTEMBER UPDATE


Ranking by height


Ranking by city


Detailed map



THUMBNAIL RENDERS





CONSTRUCTION UPDATES

SHANGHAI | Shanghai Tower. 632m. Started digging already after completing piling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 25th



TIANJIN | China 117 Tower. 597m. No updates in months. Should be still busy with the piling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
4.1 bohaibbs.org



HONG KONG | ICC. 483m. The external building is almost completed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean View Post



NANJING | Greenland Plaza. 450m. Almost done. Completing the spire now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JEANS-JEANS View Post



GUANGZHOU | West Tower. 440m. Almost completed too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddhubert View Post
From forum.home.news.cn Aug.



SHENZHEN | Kingkey Fin Center. 439m. Rising quite fast now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 22nd, by alt_add_f4



SHENYANG | Hang Lung Plaza. 384m and 350m. The foundation of the main tower is taking ages, seems like they are busy doing the shopping mall foundation now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 25th by rossi



DALIAN | Eton Center. 383m. Ultraslow as usual, but still progressing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 4th by chenxiaohai at



GUANGZHOU | The Pinnacle. 360m. Rising at a very decent speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 31st by TIAN_MO



WUHAN | Gezhouba Intl Plaza. 355m. Uncertain status as there are very few updates of this one, but we know they have erected two cranes this month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
By bukan



TIANJIN | Tianjin WFC. 337m. Ultrafast progress. Likely to top out within the end of the year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 30th by yanlei50j



WENZHOU | Wenzhou World Trade Center. 333m (348m according to some sources). Ultraslow progress, but seems like it's progressing again now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 29th



CHONGQING | Lanko International Mansion. 330m. Very fast growth too. The main body could top out around December before starting the crown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 31st by iLH



TIANJIN | Kerry Center. 330m. No updates in more than one month, so I don't really know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
July 15th by wxt123.



WUXI | Farmers Apartments. 328m. No updates in a long time from this isolated project, but it used to be rising at an amazing speed. Who knows how tall is it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Early July sony167



YANTAI | Yantai Shimao No 1. 323m. Main tower rising at last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
By wodemaya



SHENYANG | Northeast WTC. 320m~ (Final height unknown, in case they don't add the crown it will be just 260m~). Barely on hold, and now they said they'll probably scrap the spire. I'm not updating this one anymore unless we can confirm the height officially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 27th by wang007sheng



CHONGQING | Yingli Tower. 318m. Proper construction started this Summer. The final design will be slighty different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 1st by 凱-Karrylink



SHENYANG | New World Intl Conv & Exh Center. 2x312m. No progress, barely on hold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
By franklee



GUANGZHOU | Pearl River Tower. 309m. Rising at a very decent speed considering how complicated the structure is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 31st by TIAN_MO



SHENZHEN | East Pacific Center. 306m. Busy with the underground levels, n

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 28th by tailwhip



GUANGZHOU | Leatop Plaza. 302m. The whole structure is rising finally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 31st by TIAN_MO



SHENZHEN | Project T106—0028 (Formerly Nikko Tower, new name unknown). 301m. Foundation works progressing nicely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
By unknown



SUZHOU | Gate of the Orient. 301m. Now updates in weeks. Probably as ultraslow as usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 9th by lilai



CHONGQING | Poly Tower. 300m. Rising slower in the last weeks, but still progressing decently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
August 28th by iLH.
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More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.

Last edited by z0rg; September 2nd, 2009 at 12:43 AM.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 07:46 AM   #50
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alot of these building in china look very much the same. Also a few remind me of ESB in NYC. But most of you know that already and I'm sure its been said more then once.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 09:51 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Second tier cities are booming like crazy because the demand for A grade offices is skyrocketing from a very, very low supply (sometimes just a few buildings). Shanghai has countless short and medium size A grade office complexes and it is a mature market. It has tons of high quality low and midrises approved every year.

But in these new booming cities the new supply is very concentrated in skyscrapers. I have no sources, but I'm pretty sure that by 2020 around 80-90% of A grade offices in Shenyang will be located in complexes taller than 200m (Shenyang is planning over 60 buildings above this height).

Some say that the vacancy rate in these cities is too high, but it is only because the existing supply is still low. Normally the current demand takes very short to catch with the supply, a lag of just 2-4 years.

Beijing is a good example for this, even despite of being a mature market. Beijing is bashed all the time for constructing too many offices that will remain vacant for decades. Huge myth. According to Colliers, the vacancy rate of Beijing has kept stable around 15% (ultra-high for a developed country) for the last decade. So some people think "Oh, they have a high vacancy rate, they are just building facade projects". However, in Q2 2009 the occupied area of A grade offices caught up with the total stock available in Q3 2007 (around 8.3 mill sqm). In other words, Beijing today is using over 100% of the existing supply available less than 2 years ago, that's a very short lag. That's why China needs high vacancy rates in order to avoid bottlenecks.


Chongqing is a very special case anyway. Both Chongqing and Tianjin are being groomed by the central government to become first tier cities asap. They have unlimited support from the gov and they will experience ultrafast development in the coming decade (similar to Shanghai and Shenzhen in the past).

But unlike other cities, Chongqing is "alone" there. In other regions you find clusters of big cities, but you wont find any other big city near Chongqing excepting Chengdu. If you travel from Chongqing to the south or the east you wont find any other important city in more than 500km. This is another advantage for Chongqing.

Also, CQ is built on a difficult terrain, craggy and steep. Land transformation is ultra expensive, and you can't build easily into the hills. Like Hong Kong, it is a city for towers. Skyscrapers on the other hand are easier to build on such a tough floor.


One more thing. We shouldn't expect these cities to become supertall paradises in a short term. Most projects in those lists wont be started shortly, many are mid-long term projects for new CBDs (say to be completed around 2020), and some others are the tallest towers of some multi-phase masterplan by some crazy developer. IMO China will complete at least 10-15 supertalls a year starting in 2010.

Thanks everyone for supporting
Nice words, Zorg.

In my opinion, Chongqing is similar to Atlanta. No one outside United States is familiar with the city until the advent of the Summer Olympics in 1996. Like Chongqing, there is no city near to Atlanta but the geography is vastly important because it is the center of Southeast United States. That's why it's becoming the air hub of many airlines and it has the busiest airport in the world with over 60 million passengers arriving or transferring annually (I'm not sure if i got it right but its probably higher). Chongqing will be similar to Atlanta one day and will become the business center of the vast region of Southwest China.

One day, the whole world will recognize this city. There is one advantage of this city and that it is in the side of Yangtze River which can also be advantage for shipping. Shipping becomes more accessible after the completion of Three Gorges Dam. That's why the Government is investing so much to the city because it will become much better than any other city in China.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 06:42 PM   #52
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Thanks zOrg job!!
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Old September 4th, 2009, 11:01 PM   #53
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Thanks again to Zorg for the effort in putting this together - much appreciated!
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Old September 5th, 2009, 04:29 AM   #54
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Zorg is hard working man.
Nice job!
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 04:26 PM   #55
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CONSTRUCTION UPDATES

SHANGHAI | Shanghai Tower. 632m. Started digging already after completing piling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kix111 View Post
September 29th from jamyan
image hosted on flickr



TIANJIN | China 117 Tower. 597m. Still with the pilling works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
9.19 bohaibbs.org



HONG KONG | ICC. 483m. The external structure is almost completed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean View Post



NANJING | Greenland Plaza. 450m. Almost done. Completing the spire now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Huo View Post
by aklm2 @skyscrapers.cn



GUANGZHOU | West Tower. 440m. Almost completed too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 24th by fosk



SHENZHEN | Kingkey Fin Center. 439m. Rising quite fast now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 24th by xavieryip



SHENYANG | Hang Lung Plaza. 384m and 350m. The foundation of the main tower is taking ages, seems like they are busy doing the shopping mall foundation now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 29th by woailiaozu



DALIAN | Eton Center. 383m. Foundation progressin faster now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 20th by Fairwhale.



GUANGZHOU | The Pinnacle. 360m. Rising at a very decent speed.

[QUOTE=z0rg;43790808]September 27th by TIAN_MO
[/QUOTE




WUHAN | Gezhouba Intl Plaza. 355m. Uncertain status as there are very few updates of this one, but we know they have erected two cranes this month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
By bukan



TIANJIN | Tianjin WFC. 337m. Ultrafast progress. Likely to top out within the end of the year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
9.15 bohaibbs.org



WENZHOU | Wenzhou World Trade Center. 333m (348m according to some sources). Ultraslow progress, but seems like it's progressing again now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
unknown date



CHONGQING | United International. 330m. Very fast growth too. The main body could top out around December before starting the crown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 22nd by christpher1005.



TIANJIN | Kerry Center. 330m. No updates in more than one month, so I don't really know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
July 15th by wxt123.



WUXI | Farmers Apartments. 328m. The main body should top out within a couple of months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
By hot-simon



YANTAI | Yantai Shimao No 1. 323m. Main tower rising at last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 30th by skyt. Main tower rising already.



CHONGQING | Yingli Tower. 318m. Foundation works started. Final design is out now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 22nd by LY1982



SHENYANG | New World Intl Conv & Exh Center. 2x312m. No progress, barely on hold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
By franklee



GUANGZHOU | Pearl River Tower. 309m. Rising at a very decent speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 27th by TIAN_MO



SHENZHEN | East Pacific Center. 306m. Busy with the underground levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 27th by MCFXM



GUANGZHOU | Leatop Plaza. 302m. The whole structure is rising finally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 27th by TIAN_MO



SHENZHEN | Project T106—0028 (Formerly Nikko Tower, new name unknown). 301m. Foundation works progressing nicely. No updates this month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
By unknown



SUZHOU | Gate of the Orient. 301m. Now updates in weeks. Probably as ultraslow as usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
By nmklop



CHONGQING | Poly Tower. 300m. Rising faster this month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
September 26th by 997turbo.
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More than 300 supertall projects on going in China.
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 04:39 PM   #56
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I can't believe China has lots of Supertalls..China is really booming with supatalls! Amazing!
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 07:01 PM   #57
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Wow thnx zorg!
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 08:59 PM   #58
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Which projects to expect in China for 5-10 years?
Without comments.........
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Old October 4th, 2009, 12:36 AM   #59
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Thanks for this great threat, Zorg. I admit I don't bother exploring each individual thread but this gives an excellent overview of what's on in China supertall-wise. Great job.
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Old October 4th, 2009, 12:56 AM   #60
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Impressive tables. So much effort should not go unrewarded.
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