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Old December 19th, 2005, 03:08 AM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMGarcia
The A350 is better for some airlines given their routes, current staff, and maintenance contracts. The B787 is better for others. The question really is how many airlines prefer which one and what the biggest airline orders are. In other words, when it comes right down to it, which sells more units and at what profits.
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Old December 22nd, 2005, 09:20 AM   #182
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Are there any pics of the A350 out?
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Old December 22nd, 2005, 10:23 AM   #183
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There you go

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Old December 22nd, 2005, 11:16 AM   #184
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I don't think that QR could go for the 787 without a big delay now as they had some slots reserved for both the 787 and the A350 and the 787 ones have been given upand allocated to Qantas
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Old July 17th, 2006, 10:17 PM   #185
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Airbus launches bigger A350 for $10 billion

Airbus launches bigger A350 for $10 billion
Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:33pm ET
Email This Article | Print This Article | Reprints [-] Text [+] By Tim Hepher and Jason Neely

FARNBOROUGH (Reuters) - Crisis-hit European planemaker Airbus (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) unveiled a $10 billion revamp of its planned A350 mid-sized jets on Monday as it battles to catch up with U.S. arch-rival Boeing (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research).

Airbus, badly trailing Boeing in orders for new planes this year, said it would build three versions of the A350 instead of two and tossed out a fuselage design it has relied on for decades to offer what it calls an "extra wide body" jet.

The $10 billion bill is about twice as much as Airbus had originally envisaged and the planemaker said it would seek government aid from its partner countries, France, Germany, Spain and the UK -- potentially inflaming a World Trade Organization dispute with Boeing over subsidies.


Airbus, 80-percent-owned by European aerospace group EADS, unveiled the aircraft at the start of the Farnborough air show hoping the end of a two-year muddle over its design would restore its credibility after a series of damaging setbacks.

It also announced a review of the supply chain for its A380 superjumbo after problems led it to delay deliveries.

News of the A380 delay last month pummeled shares in EADS and Britain's BAE Systems (BA.L: Quote, Profile, Research), which owns the remaining 20 percent of Airbus. It also sparked a management shake-up at both EADS and Airbus.

New Airbus CEO Christian Streiff, an industry outsider with a reputation for sorting out industrial problems, said the once self-confident European planemaker was "learning to be humble."

"Airbus is in the middle of a severe crisis in its relations with its customers," Streiff said, adding he wanted three months to prepare for formal industrial launch of the new A350 project.

Boeing, in contrast, has been flying high. After losing the battle for new orders for five straight years, it beat Airbus 4-to-1 in the first half of 2006 amid strong demand for its 777 model, as well as 787 mid-sized jet, due 2008.

Airbus overhauled the A350 to meet the challenge from these planes as well as customer calls for an all-new design, rather than the previously proposed upgrade of an existing model.

The world's largest plane leasing firm International Lease Finance Corp (ILFC) told Reuters it was happy with the revamp and would not cancel its existing orders for 16 planes.

The four partner governments in Airbus -- France, Germany, Britain and Spain -- welcomed the new A350 model and expressed confidence in Airbus's ability to address delays in the A380.


But they shied away from further confrontation over trade.

Asked whether governments were still going to provide a third of the funding in loans, a practice rejected by the United States, UK Trade Secretary Alistair Darling said: "That's still to be discussed. The new A350 is different from the old one. It's a new aeroplane. We are dealing with a new proposition."

BOEING AHEAD

The new A350 will come in three versions -- the -800, -900 and, in a new variant, the -1000.

It will debut in mid-2012 and will be three inches wider than the 787 yet 13 inches narrower than the 777. Airbus however says its fuselage will be sculpted in such a way as to allow wider seats than the equivalent configuration on Boeing jets.

Airbus's top salesman John Leahy said the new A350 would offer cheaper operating costs than the Boeing 787 or 777.

He said Airbus had abandoned plans to base the plane on the same fuselage it has used since the 1970s and which is the basis of its current A330 and A340 models.

Industry-watchers at the air show generally reserved judgment on the new plane.

"You won't really know until you see companies doubling up on the (Boeing) 787," said Jon Kutler, an industry veteran who now runs an investment firm called Admiralty Partners Inc.


According to Kutler, airlines would probably be within their rights to rescind A350 orders, but are most likely willing to stick with Airbus for another six months or so before making a final decision on whether to buy A350s or Boeing's rival 787.

EADS shares closed down 1.9 percent at 20.22 euros, underperforming a weaker market.

Leahy acknowledged "one or two" of the 10 firm clients for the previous A350 might walk away but saw a total market of 6,000 aircraft for the class, to be split equally between Airbus and Boeing from the time Airbus comes to the market.

At the same time, he expressed confidence the plane would not cannibalize Airbus' backlog of twin-engined Airbus A330 or four-engined A340 planes worth over $30 billion.

The twin-engined Boeing 777 outsold the A340 at a rate of 10-to-1 last year as high fuel prices prompted airlines to buy the thriftier plane.

"We are quite comfortable we have a market for the A340 for the next 10 years," Leahy said.

Rolls Royce has agreed to provide a family of engines for the new A350. Airbus said it was in talks with other suppliers
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Old December 7th, 2006, 05:26 PM   #186
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Airbus A350 XWB Family receives industrial go-ahead

A350 XWB Family receives industrial go-ahead




Airbus was given the go-ahead for the industrial launch of the A350 XWB Family, a new medium capacity long-range extra wide-body Family from the Board of Directors of its parent company EADS. The decision is based on strong market demand and customer backing. Entry into service of the first A350 XWB is planned for 2013.

Conceived from the outset to become a comprehensive airliner Family, the A350 XWB will be available in three basic passenger versions, the A350-800 which can fly 270 passengers in a spacious three-class configuration up to 8,500 nm / 15,750 km, the A350-900 seating 314, and the A350-1000 which is designed for 350, both with ranges of up to 8,300nm / 15,400 km. The three passenger versions have a cruise speed of Mach 0.85. As an ultra long-range aircraft, the A350-900R will fly even further. A freighter version, the A350-900F will complement the passenger models. According to its latest Global Market Forecast, Airbus estimates the demand for passenger and freighter aircraft in this category, for the next 20 years, at some 5,700 planes representing 41 per cent in terms of value of all new aircraft delivered above 100 seats.



"The A350 XWB has it all to become a great success - the most advanced technologies, the best economics and the highest level of comfort. It is a direct response to market demand," says Louis Gallois, Airbus President and CEO, and co-CEO of EADS. "The decision follows a thorough review of all the resources available to ensure a smooth development of the Family backed by a very sound programme planning. Airbus remains a lead player in providing a complete range of modern airliners to its customers."

With a cross section of 232 inches / 5.9 meters, the A350 XWB will benefit from the widest fuselage in its category, offering unprecedented levels of comfort in this market segment. It will also offer the lowest operating costs and lowest seat mile cost of any aircraft in that category. The Family is designed to confront the challenges of high fuel prices, rising passenger expectations, and environmental concerns in that market segment.

The A350 XWB will be powered by new generation Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines delivering between 75,000 and 95,000 lbs of thrust. Rolls Royce CEO, Sir John Rose, said: "We are very pleased to join Airbus for its A350 XWB programme. Together, we are committed to set new standards in fuel-efficiency, maintainability and engine reliability for the 21st century."

To achieve this, the new A350 XWB will feature the latest innovations in terms of advanced technologies. Amongst those is the use of all-new, easy to maintain and much lighter Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastic (CFRP) paneled fuselage skins. This innovation in manufacturing permits easier maintainability and reparability of individual airframe parts, while also allowing the structure of the panels to be much better optimized in terms of design to the stress and load requirements of each individual airframe part. Over 60 per cent of the airframe will be made of new materials.

Moreover, the fly-by-wire A350 XWB will have handling and flight deck operational commonality allowing airlines to benefit from the Airbus family concept of cross crew qualification and mixed fleet flying.

AIRBUS A350 XWB Site
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Old December 9th, 2006, 01:36 PM   #187
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A350 XWB





Quote:
Originally Posted by savas View Post
With a cross section of 232 inches / 5.9 meters, the A350 XWB will benefit from the widest fuselage in its category
Quote:
Originally Posted by savas View Post
It will also offer the lowest operating costs and lowest seat mile cost of any aircraft in that category
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by savas View Post
the use of all-new, easy to maintain and much lighter Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastic (CFRP) paneled fuselage skins
100% CFRP paneled fuselage skins


...







Ps.: Boeing 787

...


.

Last edited by fernan; December 9th, 2006 at 02:14 PM.
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Old December 9th, 2006, 04:59 PM   #188
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A350XYZ version 6.0


Quote:
Originally Posted by savas View Post
Entry into service of the first A350 XWB is planned for 2013.
Late 2013, so we can expect from airbus that it's gonna be 2014.

Quote:
Originally Posted by savas View Post
Airbus estimates the demand for passenger and freighter aircraft in this category, for the next 20 years, at some 5,700 planes
This is the estimated demand for the 200-400 seats market. The A350XYZ doesn't overhaul it. Only 270-350. The 777/787 family overhauls 250-400. So the A350 leaves 2 gaps.
1. the bottom of the market, 200-250 seats, where the 787-8 fits at best. In this catogory is a market for 2,000 planes.
2. On the other side, the a350 doesn't reach 350-400. So it doesn't compete perfectly to the 77W. Some airlines like EK and SQ needs large capacity like those on the 777-300ER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by savas View Post
Looks like a 787.

Quote:
Originally Posted by savas View Post
"The A350 XWB has it all to become a great success - the most advanced technologies, the best economics and the highest level of comfort. It is a direct response to market demand,"
But it isn't a such a great succes like the 787.
-the most advanced technologies- More advanced than 787? possible?
-the best economics- are there facts?
-Highest level of comfort- How can you say this about an paper plane which doesn't had it's firm configuration?

[QUOTE=savas;10775867]
With a cross section of 232 inches / 5.9 meters, the A350 XWB will benefit from the widest fuselage in its category [/QOUTE]

The cross section of a 777 is 6.19 metres. So the A350XYZ isn't the widest in his catagory. And it only features 9 Abreast, no 10 Abreast, which EK and many other airlines love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by savas View Post
Over 60 per cent of the airframe will be made of new materials.
A350 version 1 was supposed to have 30% new materials. So that 60% isn't that much. part of a marketing trick?
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Old December 10th, 2006, 08:11 AM   #189
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A350XYZ version 6.0

But it isn't a such a great succes like the 787.
-the most advanced technologies- More advanced than 787? possible?
Possible, of course. Why not?
Now, whether it will actually be realized is another question. Also, since the 787 has not entered service or even begun testing yet, its success is also not confirmed. Its only success so far has been airline orders--no more.
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Old December 11th, 2006, 12:31 AM   #190
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Possible, of course. Why not?
Now, whether it will actually be realized is another question. Also, since the 787 has not entered service or even begun testing yet, its success is also not confirmed. Its only success so far has been airline orders--no more.
It's not possible, because the 787 lays in the 55,000lb-80,000LBs range, which is at this time more developed, and more advanced than the A350 engines wil bring, all because of the lower thrust the 787 engines will have. The advanced technology from the 787 engines can't be put on engines with the thrust of the A350. The A350 engines are into the 75,000-95,000 range.

Sounds crazy, but that's how it works.
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Old December 11th, 2006, 12:14 PM   #191
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I can't help but think that Airbus are trying to copy Boeing with the design on this one......
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Old December 11th, 2006, 02:49 PM   #192
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I can't help but think that Airbus are trying to copy Boeing with the design on this one......
They are trying to copy the 777 and 787, only with the A350. That's a huge mistake. How could they build a competitor to 2 families (which have 5 different sizes) with a airplane which only have 3 sizes.

They are making to gaps. One gap under the 270 seats, and one above the 350.

So the A350 isn't compareble with the 77W and 787-8.
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Old December 11th, 2006, 03:13 PM   #193
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Its a Johnny-come-lately with a metoo design that is half hearted in the CFRP department. Its positioning is also neither here nor there; in trying to straddle the Dreamliner and T7, it might just get trapped in the crack and sink to a huge black hole. Apparently the folks at EADS still haven't learnt their lesson from the WhaleJet fiasco. Sighhhh.................
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Old December 12th, 2006, 02:50 AM   #194
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Can Airbus Afford the A350?

Can Airbus Afford the A350?
Plans are finally on the table for the European planemaker's long-awaited wide-body jet. But where will the money come from?
by Carol Matlack

Europe

They've showed us the plane. Now, where's the money? At a Paris press conference on Dec. 4, Airbus unveiled plans for the long-awaited A350 XWB, a wide-body jet that will be its answer to Boeing's (BA) 787 Dreamliner.

The Airbus plane, repeatedly delayed by design uncertainties and the turmoil surrounding the A380 megaplane, finally got the green light on Dec. 1 from Airbus's parent, European Aeronautics Defence & Space Co. It's expected to enter commercial service in 2013, five years after the 787.

"There has been some bad weather getting here," Airbus Chief Executive Louis Gallois admitted at the press conference. But, he said, "the A350 XWB is just the airplane the market needs." The XWB in the plane's name stands for extra-wide body (see BusinessWeek.com, 7/21/06, "Finally, Good News for Airbus").

Waiting for a Hit
With Airbus and Boeing in agreement that airlines will order some 5,700 midsized wide-body planes over the next 20 years, the new plane could help Airbus rebound from a deep plunge in orders. During the first three quarters of 2006, Airbus logged only 226 orders, versus 736 for Boeing.

But the Airbus plane is going to cost a bundle to develop—$13.5 billion in R&D, plus $2 billion in capital expenditure, Gallois said. Where will Airbus get that kind of money? After all, the company is bracing for a $6 billion hit to earnings over the next few years because of production snafus on the A380 (see BusinessWeek.com, 10/23/06, "The A380 Crisis: What Now for Airbus?").

At the same time, the strength of the euro and the British pound against the dollar has weakened the competitiveness of Airbus' mainly European manufacturing base. Airbus also has to keep its eye on Boeing's likely next move, a new version of its narrow-body 737 line that could force Airbus to respond by updating its own narrow-body planes, the A320 series.

Slashing Costs
Gallois said financing for the A350 XWB would come principally from cash flow and from major suppliers who would take a "risk-sharing" stake in the project. EADS also might raise money on capital markets, he said. And, the CEO said Airbus had not ruled out obtaining low-interest "development" loans from European governments, as it did for the A380 and other recent planes.

Airbus has some time to sort out the financing, since R&D spending on the new plane won't ramp up seriously until 2009 or so. Still, it's clearly going to be a stretch. Airbus is pinning its cash-flow hopes on a cost-cutting initiative, dubbed Power 8, that is intended to slash operating expenses by about $2.6 million annually starting in 2010. But it's not clear yet whether Airbus will reach that target, and even if it does, how much cash flow it would yield (see BusinessWeek.com, 9/29/06, "Airbus Restructures to Catch Boeing").

Gallois has already warned that the effort will require painful job cuts that could be slowed or blocked by political pressure, especially from the French and German governments. Except for any extra cash generated by Power 8, EADS will be "effectively cash flow-neutral for the next five years," says Nick Cunningham, an analyst with the Panmure Gordon brokerage in London.

Uncertain Route on Financing
What about financing from other companies? Airbus has promised to outsource some 50% of the basic structural work on the A350, up from about 30% on the A380. It is especially keen to find suppliers outside Europe to escape the ill effects of the strong euro and take advantage of the weak dollar.

It's likely that about 5% of the plane's final value will be produced in China, another 5% in Korea, and another 3% in Russia, company officials said on Dec. 4. Still, Airbus expects that only about $2.5 billion of the $15.5 billion development cost will be picked up by companies that sign on as so-called risk-sharing partners.

That leaves two other possible sources of financing: capital markets and European governments. Here, the picture gets even murkier. Gallois said on Dec. 4 that Airbus would "study all possible instruments" of financing, including a capital increase and loans from European governments. "I will not exclude anything, and will not be more specific at this point," he said.

Airbus clearly hopes to avoid taking out government loans, which could inflame an already-heated dispute before the World Trade Organization. Gallois said on Dec. 4 that he hopes the U.S. and European Union will negotiate a new agreement on aircraft subsidies, putting an end to what Airbus contends are equally unfair forms of aid that Boeing receives from the U.S. and foreign governments.

Delicate Balance
However, in an interview published Dec. 4, French Finance Minister Thierry Breton made clear that the Europeans are still willing to subsidize the new plane. "The four governments concerned [France, Germany, Britain, and Spain] have declared that they will provide guarantees," he told the French business daily La Tribune. "But for the moment, they are not locked into doing it."

A capital increase also could have political repercussions, because it could upset EADS' current ownership structure, which has a core group of shareholders carefully balanced between French and German interests.

It adds up to a lot of questions, and very few clear answers. EADS shareholders seem a bit shell-shocked: After falling some 30% since the beginning of this year, the share price has scarcely moved the past few days even as Airbus confirmed plans for the A350 XWB launch.

Matlack is BusinessWeek's Paris bureau chief.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 04:05 AM   #195
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I hate these designs... same as the Dreamliner too.

What we need is a plane that goes Mach 5 so we can
get to other continents quicker. That would be progress
not some wide body plane that travels at Mach 0.85
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Old December 12th, 2006, 12:15 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Koeleman View Post
They are trying to copy the 777 and 787, only with the A350. That's a huge mistake. How could they build a competitor to 2 families (which have 5 different sizes) with a airplane which only have 3 sizes.

They are making to gaps. One gap under the 270 seats, and one above the 350.

So the A350 isn't compareble with the 77W and 787-8.
I think Boeing has done a great job in developing its product line. The 777 and 787 have been timed and concieved perfectly to dominate the Mid-size jet market. Meanwhile Airbus has been busy with it's giant Boeing-Induced A380 Program. (This stems from a number of years back when Boeing started talking about building a bigger 747. After talks with airlines, Boeing decided that there wasn't a big enough market to even invest in lengthening the 747. Airbus on the other hand got suckered into developing a whole new plane that doesn't yet have a big market like the Mid-sized planes do) Airbus is going to try and split the middle with its new A350 jet, but they aren't going to get the great Economics Boeing will achieve by using two engine sizes.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 09:12 PM   #197
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I love these stupid Boeing - Airbus debates. Nobody EVER seems to appreciate how wonderful it is to have two giants competing with each other. One side always wants to doom the other side to failure and that would be the worst of all possible results. Neither side is magnanimous enough to admit the others' strength.
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Old December 12th, 2006, 11:01 PM   #198
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I love these stupid Boeing - Airbus debates. Nobody EVER seems to appreciate how wonderful it is to have two giants competing with each other. One side always wants to doom the other side to failure and that would be the worst of all possible results. Neither side is magnanimous enough to admit the others' strength.
Of course we won't. The whole Europe - US battle is classic.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:56 PM   #199
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Airbus A350 versus Boeing 787

As of November 2007, it appears that the 787 has even way more orders than the A350 (with LAN Airlines making 26 new orders with option for 4 more)

Not to mention the fact the 787 will still release way ahead of the 350 (where Airbus had to announce the XWB version in response to criticism).

So yup, between the 350 and the 787, it looks like the Dreamliner looks like the run-away leader in the mid-size widebody plane category.

Go 787!
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Old November 7th, 2007, 08:08 PM   #200
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As of November 2007, it appears that the 787 has even way more orders than the A350 (with LAN Airlines making 26 new orders with option for 4 more)

Not to mention the fact the 787 will still release way ahead of the 350 (where Airbus had to announce the XWB version in response to criticism).

So yup, between the 350 and the 787, it looks like the Dreamliner looks like the run-away leader in the mid-size widebody plane category.

Go 787!
While the 787 has had the most impressive pre-launch list of orders of any airplane the A350 is not performing too bad since the XWB rework.
Expect Emirates to order about a 100 A350s at the Dubai Air Show very soon.

Furthermore the A350 is more of a direct competitor to the current B777 than the B787 which is essentially a B767 replacement, albeit with a lot more range. ...

Both are very good planes and will further push each manufacturer to build better aircraft... which is a win-win situation for everyone.
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