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Old June 21st, 2013, 01:26 AM   #901
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The next potentially big order from the USA for the A350XWB-900 may be Delta Airlines. Delta wants modern planes for transoceanic flights (especially since the absorption of Northwest) and good-size fleet of this plane that can fly from Delta's various hubs to eastern Asia and western Europe would be useful.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 08:34 AM   #902
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Delta is not going to order the A350 anytime soon, they only buy proven types. They also have an inherited 787 order from Northwest that they have pushed back well into the 2020s. If Delta is going to order new Airbus planes for it's long-haul fleets it's going to be more A330s. They seem to be very happy with the 32 they already operate and there will be earlier delivery slots then with the A350


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You forget the 25 frames from ALC:
Oops, looked at it too quickly at work yesterday.

But hey, when ALC firms their new 787 order it the numbers will be turned again. And at the same time it's another customer that buys both in quite even numbers.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 03:27 PM   #903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Delta is not going to order the A350 anytime soon, they only buy proven types. They also have an inherited 787 order from Northwest that they have pushed back well into the 2020s. If Delta is going to order new Airbus planes for it's long-haul fleets it's going to be more A330s. They seem to be very happy with the 32 they already operate and there will be earlier delivery slots then with the A350
I kind of disagree, because DL inherited a 747-400 fleet that is probably the oldest in the world from Northwest. As such, DL needs to get a long-range airliner to replace the 747-400, and the A350XWB would fill the bill by the time the -1000 model arrives in 2017.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 05:01 PM   #904
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Very cool.
thanks for sharing
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Old June 21st, 2013, 08:01 PM   #905
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Ey guys , we have tracking of third flight
http://www.flightradar24.com/#!/AIB03WB
She has been flying for more than 7 hours according to some rumours.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 08:28 PM   #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sacto7654 View Post
I kind of disagree, because DL inherited a 747-400 fleet that is probably the oldest in the world from Northwest. As such, DL needs to get a long-range airliner to replace the 747-400, and the A350XWB would fill the bill by the time the -1000 model arrives in 2017.
It's much more likely that they will go for the 777-300ER if they want a 1 on 1 replacement for the 747-400s right now. \


This is what Delta Air Lines CEO Richard Anderson had to say about their fleet strategy just last month:

Quote:
'PROVEN PRODUCTS'

"We would rather see proven products that have cash-on-cash returns from the moment we take delivery," Anderson said. "That is much more important."

While manufacturers are playing up double-digit percentage reductions in fuel costs in their newest models, which are equipped with more fuel-efficient engines, Delta prefers to buy aircraft toward the end of their production cycle when prices are lower.

"The airplane salesmen always show you charts that have these big operating savings," Anderson said. "But the charts never have the capital cost, so it is a little bit of a fallacy to analyze airplanes without the capital costs included."
full article:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100759006

They are not going to order the A350 anytime soon.

See also this rumor from March this year:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...de-bodies.html

They are only looking at the A330 and the 777.
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Old June 21st, 2013, 08:34 PM   #907
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Here's a full length video of the webstream of the A350 fly-by at Paris:






And a shorter video.

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Old June 21st, 2013, 08:49 PM   #908
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She is a very quiet beauty!
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 03:54 AM   #909
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Agreed! It certainly does seem exceptionally quiet from that video. The A350 and B787 design teams seem very intent on raising the bar for passenger comfort, noise and environmental impact. I'm looking forward to taking my first flight on both.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 01:01 PM   #910
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I've been trying to compare the A350-1000 and the B777-300ER but I'm not really satisfied with the info I could collect so far. Could please someone who knows abt the matter give more info on that (especially in terms of fuel burn per passenger and freight capacity) ?
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 02:40 PM   #911
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Frankly, aircraft enthusiasts want to make it look like a very subtile business where no manufacturer has a clear edge, but the truth they'll never admit is that things are lot simpler than they pretend.
  • small planes: A320 neo > B737 MAX
  • Average small: B787 family > A330 family
  • Average big: A350 XWB family > B777 family
  • Really Big: A380 family > B747-8i

And that's it. The rest is only about chauvinism and politics.

Now, currently it seems 4-engine planes (the "really big" category) struggle against 2-engine planes, but with the upcoming market growth in the next 2 decades, I hardly see how there couldn't be any room for them.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 03:40 PM   #912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Male View Post
I've been trying to compare the A350-1000 and the B777-300ER but I'm not really satisfied with the info I could collect so far. Could please someone who knows abt the matter give more info on that (especially in terms of fuel burn per passenger and freight capacity) ?
The A350-1000 will carry 350 people in a 3 class config, 44 cargo containers, fly 8420 nm and is 74 metres long.

The 777-300ER can carry 386 people in a 3 class config, 44 cargo containers, fly 7930 nm and is 74 metres long.

It may seem like the A350-1000 carries 16 fewer people but I think this is just due to the fact that the mix of first, economy and business class passengers is different. Both planes have a maximum limit of 550 passengers which suggests they are basically the same size.

Airbus claims that the A350-1000 will burn 25% less fuel than the 777-300 and even Boeing claims it will be 20%.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 08:32 PM   #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future.architect View Post
The A350-1000 will carry 350 people in a 3 class config, 44 cargo containers, fly 8420 nm and is 74 metres long.

The 777-300ER can carry 386 people in a 3 class config, 44 cargo containers, fly 7930 nm and is 74 metres long.

It may seem like the A350-1000 carries 16 fewer people but I think this is just due to the fact that the mix of first, economy and business class passengers is different. Both planes have a maximum limit of 550 passengers which suggests they are basically the same size.

Airbus claims that the A350-1000 will burn 25% less fuel than the 777-300 and even Boeing claims it will be 20%.
Thanks for the reply! So capacity-wise we can say that those two aircrafts are identical then. I especially ask that question because I'm wondering why the a350-1000 sales have been quite slow (at least so far). Are the customers waiting for the launch of 777X before making their decision or is it caused by an issue of delivery slots?
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 09:10 PM   #914
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I think "delays" is the key here. That and the fact that some are waiting for the 777x and want to be early in the queue there.

The thing is that if they order a A350 1000 now, they won't get their planes before in 2019 the earliest anyway, so by then the new 777x might be out as well.

Either way I think both types will receive alot of orders in the years to come.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 10:16 PM   #915
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There are 2 more issues that I think are also playing a role.


- Lack of clarity on the specifics of A350-1000

Airbus has changed the specs of the A350-1000 several times since the launch in 2005. Any airline ordering the plane would not know what kind of plane they would get on delivery. Now it has become much clearer what the final specifications will be, this is also contributing to the recent orders.


- The extreme sales success of the 777-300ER.

The first deliveries of the 777-300ER where in 2004, and Boeing is still delivering about 60 every year. In 2011 Boeing booked 200 net orders, in 2012 68 and this year 21 so far. The current backlog is 290 planes. All these planes will be flying for well into the next decade. If the A350-1000 is a good 777-300ER replacement it will mean that airlines will be looking to replace it from the next decade. Since the A350-900 is a good replacement of the 777-200ER that had it's delivery peak around the year 2000 it's also very logical that this version of the A350 has gotten the most orders up to now.



Since Airbus has already decided to switch the -800 and the -1000 EIS it means that there are new earlier delivery slots for the -1000. This could be the reason for several of the recent -1000 orders and conversions, the availability issue is not playing a big role anymore. And the numbers will start to grow as the 2020 will be coming closer. Even with the 777X coming up as a improved competitor the order peak of the A350-1000 will still be in the 2nd half of this decade.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 10:40 PM   #916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Male View Post
Thanks for the reply! So capacity-wise we can say that those two aircrafts are identical then. I especially ask that question because I'm wondering why the a350-1000 sales have been quite slow (at least so far). Are the customers waiting for the launch of 777X before making their decision or is it caused by an issue of delivery slots?
Just to add to the other replies to this question, Airbus have said themselves that they where not promoting the A350-1000 as much due to the fact that certain aspects of the design where still fluid. They have also suggested that the long lead time was an issue.

Now Boeing have launched the 777x the choice is a lot clearer as well. The 777-9 is much bigger than the A350-1000, the 777-8 is about the same capacity but it will be much heavier and most likely less efficient, it's a niche plane for people who need to fly really long flights.

Between the 777-8 and the A350-1000, I think the A350 will be more successful.
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 10:57 PM   #917
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Thanks for the info.
Here is another video of second flight with more details.
How on Earth can one have such an atrocious french accent...it is so unbearable that I had to turn down the volume... Thanks God, my accent has nothing to do with that...
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Old June 22nd, 2013, 11:06 PM   #918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future.architect View Post
Just to add to the other replies to this question, Airbus have said themselves that they where not promoting the A350-1000 as much due to the fact that certain aspects of the design where still fluid. They have also suggested that the long lead time was an issue.

Now Boeing have launched the 777x the choice is a lot clearer as well. The 777-9 is much bigger than the A350-1000, the 777-8 is about the same capacity but it will be much heavier and most likely less efficient, it's a niche plane for people who need to fly really long flights.

Between the 777-8 and the A350-1000, I think the A350 will be more successful.
I sometimes wonder if Airbus would have done better if they would have done the same as Boeing with the 787-10. They could have waited with officially launching the -1000, but making it very clear that it would be launched at some future point.

Although that would have resulted in discussion on if they would be actually launching it or not instead of discussion on why it isn't selling big yet.
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 07:35 AM   #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future.architect View Post
The A350-1000 will carry 350 people in a 3 class config, 44 cargo containers, fly 8420 nm and is 74 metres long.

The 777-300ER can carry 386 people in a 3 class config, 44 cargo containers, fly 7930 nm and is 74 metres long.

It may seem like the A350-1000 carries 16 fewer people but I think this is just due to the fact that the mix of first, economy and business class passengers is different. Both planes have a maximum limit of 550 passengers which suggests they are basically the same size.

Airbus claims that the A350-1000 will burn 25% less fuel than the 777-300 and even Boeing claims it will be 20%.
Basically, but hey don't let Boeing lovers know the facts, even after death they will be rolling in their grave
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Old June 23rd, 2013, 09:24 AM   #920
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The fact is that there are no typical lay-outs so their are "facts".

A A350-1000 will for sure beat an ANA 777-300ER with 213 in a 4 class lay-out by more then 25%. But the fuel burn advantage will be lower then 20% if it's going against a Air France 3 class 468 seats 300ER.

Unless all the airline opt to go 10 abreast on the A350 the highest density 777s will still have very competitive economics against the A350.

And at the end of the day both manufacturers sell their products to airlines and not "fans".
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