daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Airports and Aviation

Airports and Aviation » Airports | Photos and Videos



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 28th, 2013, 05:05 PM   #1181
future.architect
Far East London
 
future.architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,800
Likes (Received): 2031

It looks like this up gauging trend is real with lots of airlines swapping 787-8's for 787-9's. This is probably not good news for the A350-800. I think it's highly likely that Airbus will just upgrade all the -800 customers to the -900 Regional and drop the -800 whilst simultaneously launching the 1-100.

I do however believe this is problematic for them having nothing to replace the A330, without the -800, the A350 family becomes simply a A340 replacement.

Last edited by future.architect; December 28th, 2013 at 05:11 PM.
future.architect no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 28th, 2013, 07:59 PM   #1182
Momo1435
-----アンジュルム-----
 
Momo1435's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: アルフェナンデンライン
Posts: 35,250
Likes (Received): 63008

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPA001 View Post
It would have been a bigger surprise if these orders were cancelled, as some persons on several internet forums were calling for. Luckily AA (as virtually any other seriously run airline) looks at the hard facts of airplanes, and makes their decisions based on that instead of sentiment.

Anyway, this is good news for the new AA and for Airbus since going from A358's to all A359's is upping the original order.
I heard more people claiming that the new AA management = the old US management would cancel the 787 or even all Boeing orders then people claiming that the A350 order would be canceled. This conversion proofs all those people wrong since there won't be any overlap between the 787s and the A350s on order. There remains a place for all of these planes in the new AA fleet.

Most people actually predicted this up gauge to happen anyway, it's not really that surprising.


There is indeed a trend that airlines go for a bigger plane, it's of course more noticeable with the A350 then with the 787. The 787-8 is still picking up new orders, even from downward conversions (Scoot and AA). The main difference is of course that the A350-800 is a shrink while the 787-8 is the base model.

What Airbus now will do with the A350-800 remains to be seen. Publicly they have only stated that they are still going ahead with this version, but at the same time they are actively talking with all the customers to have them convert to the A350-900 (not necessarily the regional variant). The A340-500 also was a slow seller with just 34 orders and they still went ahead with it. They might delay the introduction until after the A350-1000 which is difficult to push forward because of the engine developments. But with the huge number of A350-900 orders it's not really a problem if the other versions are a bit delayed. It won't be a problem to fill those original A350-800 production slots.
__________________
Support your Idols
キタ ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ ฅ(๑⊙д⊙๑)ฅ!! ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━!!!
Japan Projects & Construction

Zaz965 liked this post
Momo1435 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 29th, 2013, 06:58 PM   #1183
sacto7654
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 796
Likes (Received): 283

I think one airline that has to be nervous about this is Hawaiian Airlines (HA). HA had been counting on the A350XWB-800 for opening up really long routes (possibly direct to Europe from Honolulu!), but if Airbus cancels the A358, HA may have to seriously look at substituting a higher gross weight version of the Boeing 787-8 or the regular 787-9 for its very long-range needs.
sacto7654 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 29th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #1184
EPA001
Registered User
 
EPA001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rotterdam metropolitan area
Posts: 28,976
Likes (Received): 5831

The difference in range between the A350-800 and the A350-900 is 400 nm. The difference is so small that it will hardly effect the routes HA might be planning for their new A350's.

Also, the A358 or A359's (if HA would opted to convert the order upwards) will be receiving will be later built versions where the first and second "wave" of improvements (performance optimisation and weight reduction) will be part of the standard aircraft. Bettering the already currently strong baseline performance of the A359. So range is not really an issue for HA if the A350-800 would be cancelled.

Of course if Airbus would cancel them, no doubt HA can get A350-900's without extra payments. So it is also a poker game when it comes to that, and if it comes to that.
__________________
.
"Atheism is more than just the knowledge that Gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always trying to understand all things as a part of nature" - Carl Sagan
EPA001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2013, 12:10 AM   #1185
Momo1435
-----アンジュルム-----
 
Momo1435's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: アルフェナンデンライン
Posts: 35,250
Likes (Received): 63008

Hawaiian has mostly talked about SE Asian destinations like Singapore for their A358s which are now out of reach for their new A332s. Those routes are a bit shorter then possible European routes, it doesn't look like Hawaiian actually wants to squeeze the longest realistic range out of their A350s.

And with the operational costs only being slightly higher for the -900 then for the -800 they are a perfect candidate for a conversion. And if they are over it's only Asiana and Aeroflot as serious airlines that still have the -800 on order. I don't think it will be that hard for Airbus to convince them to go to the -900, especially if the price won't change.
__________________
Support your Idols
キタ ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ ฅ(๑⊙д⊙๑)ฅ!! ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━!!!
Japan Projects & Construction

Zaz965 liked this post
Momo1435 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 30th, 2013, 07:38 PM   #1186
Argonaught
Registered User
 
Argonaught's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 17
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manazir View Post
I wonder if A350 would be a better choice than B787 or not?
Quite possibly, if Airbus can figure out a way to make good use of the "second comer" advantages.
Argonaught no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2013, 12:26 AM   #1187
EPA001
Registered User
 
EPA001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rotterdam metropolitan area
Posts: 28,976
Likes (Received): 5831

That has nothing to do with it. The A350 and B787 are not really head to head, between the respective versions are enough differences to make sure there is no overlap.

Of course the A350 is in details again marginally more advanced since it is a 5 year newer design. But that is also and always a race where at one point in time the one is in the lead, and then the other is in the lead.
__________________
.
"Atheism is more than just the knowledge that Gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always trying to understand all things as a part of nature" - Carl Sagan
EPA001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2013, 08:51 AM   #1188
Momo1435
-----アンジュルム-----
 
Momo1435's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: アルフェナンデンライン
Posts: 35,250
Likes (Received): 63008

Since the A350 uses more traditional technology then the 787 which was packed full of all the latest developments the advance of the A350 good have been bigger. But since all this new technology was also one of the reasons for the 787 delays and problems, it could be a better move of Airbus in terms to reduce any delays.

In the meantime the market has already started to sort itself out.

Airbus has found the sweat-spot with the A350-900, where there's was no direct competitor in terms of size until this year. But even the successful introduction of the 787-10 didn't really hurt the A350-900 sales that much, the market seems big enough for 2 planes in this segment. The A350-800 has been made redundant by the A350-900 (larger but similar operating costs) and the 787-9 (similar sized but lower operating costs). The A350-1000 has had a slow start, but has picked up this year although still not as much as Airbus probably would have hoped. There's still the competition of the 777X in this segment, this is were the biggest fight is going to be in the next couple of years.
__________________
Support your Idols
キタ ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ ฅ(๑⊙д⊙๑)ฅ!! ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━!!!
Japan Projects & Construction

Zaz965 liked this post
Momo1435 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2013, 06:06 PM   #1189
Argonaught
Registered User
 
Argonaught's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 17
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPA001 View Post
the respective versions are enough differences to make sure there is no overlap.

.
Oh, I am aware of that - making planes of exactly the same spec might lead to counter-productive price wars. The A and B people know better than that. Which, again, brings up the question as to why Bombardier decided to come up with their CS100 (and not the 130-seat version) first, which seems way too close to the niche, dominated by their own CRJ's, Embraer and now challenged by the Sukhoi.
Argonaught no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2013, 07:56 PM   #1190
EPA001
Registered User
 
EPA001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rotterdam metropolitan area
Posts: 28,976
Likes (Received): 5831

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
Since the A350 uses more traditional technology then the 787 which was packed full of all the latest developments the advance of the A350 good have been bigger.
Maybe in 1 segment the A350 relies on a bit more traditional technology concept (bleed vs. non-bleed), but that makes it by no means not less advanced. And also more traditional technologies have made huge advancements through innovation. Overall upon EIS the A350 will be the most advanced airliner when she enter into service at the airlines late next year (=late 2014).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
But since all this new technology was also one of the reasons for the 787 delays and problems, it could be a better move of Airbus in terms to reduce any delays.
There was hardly any delay that was related to the introduction of new technology on the B787. More then 95% of the delays were caused by a bad execution of the program driving Boeing to make huge costs to repair the state of the program.

The big electricity problems, along with many reliability issues, only surfaced after the airplane entered service, which was many years after the intended EIS. In time, these problems will all be solved and the B787 will be an excellent offering from Boeing. No doubt about that. Just as the A350 will be an excellent offering from Airbus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
In the meantime the market has already started to sort itself out.
That is true. Both Airbus and Boeing are financially in excellent shape and have record filled order books to have every confidence in the future.
__________________
.
"Atheism is more than just the knowledge that Gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always trying to understand all things as a part of nature" - Carl Sagan

future.architect liked this post
EPA001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old December 31st, 2013, 08:45 PM   #1191
XWB
Too low - terrain
 
XWB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 408
Likes (Received): 441

Quote:
The big electricity problems, along with many reliability issues, only surfaced after the airplane entered service, which was many years after the intended EIS.
Boeing did face several electrical problems during flight testing, I recall the fire on board ZA002.

http://seattletimes.com/html/busines..._boeing12.html
XWB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 1st, 2014, 03:42 AM   #1192
sacto7654
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 796
Likes (Received): 283

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPA001 View Post
Also, the A358 or A359's (if HA would opted to convert the order upwards) will be receiving will be later built versions where the first and second "wave" of improvements (performance optimisation and weight reduction) will be part of the standard aircraft.
If Hawaiian Airlines is willing to wait, they could get improved A359's with longer range than currently specified. That would make it possible for HNL to most of southeastern Asia at higher cargo/pax load per plane, or HNL to JFK also at higher cargo/pax load. And Airbus will sell the plane to HA at the same cost they sold the A358 in the first place.
sacto7654 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2014, 12:30 PM   #1193
XWB
Too low - terrain
 
XWB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 408
Likes (Received): 441

In the meantime, Airbus rolls out MSN2, the first A350 with a cabin.



Thanks http://twitter.com/Frenchpainter for taking the picture.
__________________

cargobull, jarkti, abnet, pi_malejana liked this post
XWB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:10 PM   #1194
jarkti
World's Happiest Person
 
jarkti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth
Posts: 7,218
Likes (Received): 752

Very nice looking livery
__________________
jarkti no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2014, 02:14 PM   #1195
juanchito79
Registered User
 
juanchito79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Guatemala
Posts: 3,913
Likes (Received): 2210

Another picture from Airbus twitter account



Juanchito
__________________
My Jetphotos pictures
https://www.jetphotos.com/photograph...anuel%20Galvez

jarkti, Equario, Bren, abnet, Momo1435 and 2 others liked this post
juanchito79 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2014, 03:27 PM   #1196
juanchito79
Registered User
 
juanchito79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Guatemala
Posts: 3,913
Likes (Received): 2210

Another picture



Juanchito
__________________
My Jetphotos pictures
https://www.jetphotos.com/photograph...anuel%20Galvez

Equario, Le Male, bbq liked this post
juanchito79 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2014, 04:25 PM   #1197
EPA001
Registered User
 
EPA001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rotterdam metropolitan area
Posts: 28,976
Likes (Received): 5831

What a beauty she is.
__________________
.
"Atheism is more than just the knowledge that Gods do not exist, and that religion is either a mistake or a fraud. Atheism is an attitude, a frame of mind that looks at the world objectively, fearlessly, always trying to understand all things as a part of nature" - Carl Sagan
EPA001 está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2014, 07:38 PM   #1198
medviation
Professional Ass Kicker
 
medviation's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Metro Manila
Posts: 702
Likes (Received): 279

WOOOOW!!! looks like I have a new favorite livery!
__________________
If you play by their rules, they're always going to beat you.

I HATE NAIA
medviation no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2014, 12:51 AM   #1199
EK413
Registered User
 
EK413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,891
Likes (Received): 1895

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanchito79 View Post
Another picture from Airbus twitter account Juanchito
Now that's hot! I wish QF would order a few as A330/B744 replacements!
__________________
EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
EK413 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2014, 06:33 PM   #1200
anonymous_filipino
Registered User
 
anonymous_filipino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Quezon City
Posts: 2,793
Likes (Received): 600

I am officially in love with the A350 MSN 2 livery
anonymous_filipino no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
airbus, airplane

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium