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Old June 13th, 2014, 01:16 PM   #1541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highveld Lion View Post
The boeing 747-I8 is what they are looking for and will buy... More fuel efficient than the airbus 380, more elegant, far more profitable and no wait on the delivery line...........
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Old June 13th, 2014, 03:30 PM   #1542
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Originally Posted by future.architect View Post
In the grand scheme of things, the Emirates cancelation is a minor setback that isn't as bad as it appears.
That said, it's certainly not good news, but it seems to me that the A350-900 is too now too small for them and since Boeing have basically designed the 777-X Emirates's bespoke requirements, it's not that surprising when you think about it. Emirates have been signalling this for a while.

Exactly. This cancellation is the best thing that could ever happen to Airbus!

The Emirates order for the 50 A380s is much more important. Alone these 50 planes secure the program for at least three years of full rate production. Enough time to collect orders from other customers who aren´t sure yet.
And what´s even more awesome: Emirates demands an even bigger version of this type, namely the A380-900. We can expect that in the long term this airline will replace its 140 A380s with this new version.

The A350 doesn´t need so desperately the order from Emirates because it sells like hot cakes anyway!
John Leahy told the press that after it was announced that Emirates cancelled its order his phone didn´t stop to ring. Customers from all over the world pleaded with him to get the now free early delivery slots. And we speak here about the year 2019.
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Old June 13th, 2014, 05:51 PM   #1543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post

Exactly. This cancellation is the best thing that could ever happen to Airbus!
Yeah, because losing a 16 billion euro order is the best thing that could ever happen to Airbus.......

Thats like saying Qantas cancelling its order for 35 787-9s was good for Boeing.

Last edited by Benn; June 13th, 2014 at 06:03 PM.
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Old June 13th, 2014, 06:31 PM   #1544
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You have to keep in mind that Airbus (and Boeing) have booked orders for all of their planes worth several hundred billion Dollar.*

So 16 billion Dollar are really peanuts.

And I repeat: Emirates saved the A380 with the additional order for 50 Super-Jumbos last November which is much, much, much more important for Airbus.
The success of the A350 on the other hand doesn´t rely so much on particular airlines like it´s the case with the A380 and therefore it´s really no problem that EK cancelled this order.


*I bet our forum experts know the exact numbers.
So please could anyone post the combined value of all ordered planes for Airbus and Boeing?
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Last edited by Deadeye Reloaded; June 13th, 2014 at 10:33 PM.
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Old June 13th, 2014, 09:45 PM   #1545
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Airbus A350-941 msn 005 by dn280tls, on Flickr
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Old June 13th, 2014, 10:28 PM   #1546
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Definitely one of the first cabin takeoff videos on youtube.

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Old June 13th, 2014, 10:32 PM   #1547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
Actually the 8i is more fuel efficient then the 380.

Fuel cost per nautical mile is cheaper and Fuel cost per seat is cheaper.
Lufthansa don't seem to think so, and they should know:

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Old June 14th, 2014, 01:44 AM   #1548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeye Reloaded View Post

You have to keep in mind that Airbus (and Boeing) have booked orders for all of their planes worth several hundred billion Dollar.*

So 16 billion Dollar are really peanuts.

And I repeat: Emirates saved the A380 with the additional order for 50 Super-Jumbos last November which is much, much, much more important for Airbus.
The success of the A350 on the other hand doesn´t rely so much on particular airlines like it´s the case with the A380 and therefore it´s really no problem that EK cancelled this order.


*I bet our forum experts know the exact numbers.
So please could anyone post the combined value of all ordered planes for Airbus and Boeing?
My point isn't that it's a strategic gamechanger for airbus, it's not and 16 billion euro may not be the end of the world. Also of course their a380 order is in the running for the best thing ever to happen to Airbus (because they would for sure be losing money on the program without it). I am well aware of the numbers involved, Boeing sold a hundred billion dollars worth of planes in one day at the Dubai Airshow.

My point was you said "This cancellation is the best thing that could ever happen to Airbus!" which isn't just hyperbole, it's on of the most incomprehensibly foolish statements I've heard. Even if they fill those slots in hurry, stating that the cancellation of a major order from a major airline is a good thing for a manufacturer is delusional on a good day.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 07:14 AM   #1549
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[IMG]http://i57.************/9sw845.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbu...9bccbe7b86d628
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Old June 14th, 2014, 09:25 AM   #1550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future.architect View Post
Lufthansa don't seem to think so, and they should know:

Keep in mind it is PER PAX, and the 8i's are premium heavy. I think they have 396 pax, IIRC. This is why I find these comparisons useless. For waht we know, thanks to so many premium pax, LH makes more on the 8i. I am not saying it does, I am just saying it's possible. On the other hand, A380's can be made 11 abreast and suddenly the cost per pax would drop by a significant amount.

Having said all that, I think A380 would be more efficient. It's much bigger and a newly-dsigned plane, which I think is enough to make up for older wings and engines.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 09:35 AM   #1551
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It's 362, actually. Just checked.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 02:12 PM   #1552
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Yeah Emirates is requesting Airbus develop a reengined A380Neo, they are obviously eyeing more orders. Speculation seems to be Emirates are planning a two type fleet for efficency savings.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 04:34 PM   #1553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siamu maharaj View Post
Keep in mind it is PER PAX, and the 8i's are premium heavy. I think they have 396 pax, IIRC. This is why I find these comparisons useless. For waht we know, thanks to so many premium pax, LH makes more on the 8i. I am not saying it does, I am just saying it's possible. On the other hand, A380's can be made 11 abreast and suddenly the cost per pax would drop by a significant amount.

Having said all that, I think A380 would be more efficient. It's much bigger and a newly-dsigned plane, which I think is enough to make up for older wings and engines.
The 8i is a newer plane design then the A380.

and I have googled multiple stats on the 380 vs 8i. No one company or website has the exact stats to show which is better.

But the 8i is updated with lighter materials, newer engines, redesigned wings, 787 cockpit technology, and so on. It has to be more efficient then the A380.

Also, Emirates has hinted at wanting a more fuel efficient and updated A380.

But what the 777x is going to bring to the table, its going to blow away the 747-8i and compete with the a380.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 05:04 PM   #1554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027 View Post
The 8i is a newer plane design then the A380.

and I have googled multiple stats on the 380 vs 8i. No one company or website has the exact stats to show which is better.

But the 8i is updated with lighter materials, newer engines, redesigned wings, 787 cockpit technology, and so on. It has to be more efficient then the A380.

Also, Emirates has hinted at wanting a more fuel efficient and updated A380.

But what the 777x is going to bring to the table, its going to blow away the 747-8i and compete with the a380.
The 748 is hardly newer than the A380. It is a 40 year old design with a new wing and new engines launched 5 years after the A380.

Sure it is more efficient than the 747-400, but it is old tech compared to the A380.

Remember that the A380 can seat 830 but so far, no airline has put more than about 550 seats in it. That tells me it is extremely efficient.

I agree with you about the 777X, but doesn't the fact that they have launched it tell you the 748 is not as good as you think?

Anyway, this thread is about the A350!
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Old June 14th, 2014, 07:41 PM   #1555
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Our sources have confirmed the serial numbers of the first four A350s for Cathay Pacific...

http://A350Production.com/2014/06/cpf1/
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Flown:
AIB: 320 (200), 321 (200), 330 (200,300), 340 (200), 380 (800)
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Old June 15th, 2014, 02:32 AM   #1556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benn View Post
My point was you said "This cancellation is the best thing that could ever happen to Airbus!" which isn't just hyperbole, it's on of the most incomprehensibly foolish statements I've heard. Even if they fill those slots in hurry, stating that the cancellation of a major order from a major airline is a good thing for a manufacturer is delusional on a good day.

Maybe I wasn´t clear enough (or you just didn´t understand what I wrote ).

This cancellation should be only seen in the context of the order for the 50 A380s. Basically EK switched from 70 A350s to 50 A380s. And that´s what I mean by "best thing which could ever happen to Airbus".

The A350 is such a bestseller that the production is secured for the next 7-10 years. Even without the order from EK.
While there was the danger that Airbus could face this problem of unfilled production slots for the A380. The situation could have even become insomuch catastrophic like with Boeing and its doomed 747-8I.

Conclusion: The cancellation of the A350 order doesn´t have any negative effect on the program while at the same time the gigantic super-jumbo order diminished any danger from the A380 and secured Airbus´ absolut monopoly in the ultra-large airliner segment for the next decade.
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Last edited by Deadeye Reloaded; June 15th, 2014 at 02:37 AM.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 02:10 PM   #1557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future.architect View Post
Wishful thinking.
I give you wishful with an order for 10 747-i8 placed by an airline that operates both A380 and 747-8 . Deliveries 2015-2017...
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Old June 15th, 2014, 04:11 PM   #1558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highveld Lion View Post
I give you wishful with an order for 10 747-i8 placed by an airline that operates both A380 and 747-8 . Deliveries 2015-2017...
The passenger 748 still has a much smaller backlog than the A380. There must be a reason for that.

But back to Emirates, having the 748 and the 777-9 in the fleet makes absolutely no sense.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 04:29 PM   #1559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highveld Lion View Post
I give you wishful with an order for 10 747-i8 placed by an airline that operates both A380 and 747-8 . Deliveries 2015-2017...
So when is Emirates ordering the 8i?
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Old June 15th, 2014, 06:02 PM   #1560
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By the way, there may be a possible silver lining with Emirates' cancellation of the A350XWB order: one airline may have just found a replacement for the 747 for possibly a bargain price.

And that airline is Delta Air Lines. Remember, Delta took over Northwest's 747-400 fleet, among the oldest 747-400's built; those 747-400's are getting up there in age and may be starting to get very expensive to maintain. Delta will take over most of the production slots for the A350XWB-1000 originally intended for Emirates, and that means Delta will get a modern replacement for its aging 747-400 fleet.
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