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Old July 13th, 2012, 01:59 PM   #261
Coccodrillo
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There are printed panels which shows all stops of every train, although sometimes they are confusing as the same train may travel with slightly different numebr of stop or departure time according to the day (weekday, weekend, weekday in summer, saturday, ...).
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Old July 13th, 2012, 02:04 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
There are printed panels which shows all stops of every train, although sometimes they are confusing as the same train may travel with slightly different numebr of stop or departure time according to the day (weekday, weekend, weekday in summer, saturday, ...).
Well, there were 2 departures from Cesena to Cesenatico at that time. The 2nd slower train arrived 4 min after the 1st one. We should have waited for the 2nd train which stopped at Bolgheri, but we got nervous, hesitated and took the 1st train which continued to Cesenatico without any stops. Costed us 70 EUR in taxi costs
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Old July 13th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I find it a bit odd that two stops ad 35 minutes to the trip time...
That is how these Italian high speed trains work. Although they already have time reserves in the regular schedule, they also turn every stop in a terminus station where direction must be reversed (which is almost every station along the line) into a 20 minute stopover, even though in Frankfurt an ICE could reverse direction in 3 minutes. This absurd system will change as traditional stations will be replaced by through stations, but at present robs the system of much of its speed benefit.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 09:36 PM   #264
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image hosted on flickr


Train from Florence to Faenza. A short trainset for this scenic route. The train stopped a few times on some small stations in the hilly landscape.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 10:03 PM   #265
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@ NordikNerd: ALL Italian stations I've ever been to (and these are quite a few) have those monitors on your first pic which show the scheduled trains. Apparently, FS did invest in such "high tech" quite early (at least much earlier than DB or so) - consequently, they didn't upgrate to digital screens on the platform later. Still, the Italian stations are much better equipped than German ones in that regard (where you won't find any info screens on most small stations).
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Old July 13th, 2012, 10:45 PM   #266
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I think all Italian stations have some information panels. They are more likely to be working than ticker machines in more remote stations, indeed.

The most modern ones will roll the list of stops (and times!) on the monitor. Some older ones will only show destination.

You can always check that information online, though.
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Old July 13th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Some older ones will only show destination.
Small stations as Cesina, Bolgheri, Cesenatico have only monitors on the platform closest to the station building. Those monitors only show destinations. If you are on another platform no digital info is to be found. If some trains do not stop at all stations, info about where it not stops should be showed. Like the RER-train stations in Paris, where small dots on the digital info screen indicate where the train stops.

Yes, there are written timetables, but it's not easy to read them especially if you are in a hurry and don't understand italian. The timetable is very varied and dependant on seasons and holidays.

image hosted on flickr

Florence S.M.N

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Incomming train, Faenza

Last edited by NordikNerd; July 13th, 2012 at 11:46 PM.
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Old July 14th, 2012, 02:11 AM   #268
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Quote:
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I find it a bit odd that two stops ad 35 minutes to the trip time...

Nonstop MI Cle Rome Termini 2h 55'
HST calling MI CLE Rome Termini with intermediate callls at Bologna and Firenze SMN 3h 25'

Please see this link:

http://www.lefrecce.it/B2CWeb/search...chOutputViewer
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Old July 14th, 2012, 02:21 AM   #269
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190 km/h average is quite a bit below top marks (about 240 km/h for some lines in France, I believe) for high speed lines, but it's not completely awful either. Still competitive with flying and at least 2 h better than driving.
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Old July 14th, 2012, 01:08 PM   #270
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Milan-Rome no-stop trains have to slow down to 60 km/h in Bologna and Florence. When their two urban tunnels will be opened transit trains may go a little faster, but hardly more than 120 km/h.
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Old July 14th, 2012, 04:24 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph1951 View Post
Nonstop MI Cle Rome Termini 2h 55'
HST calling MI CLE Rome Termini with intermediate callls at Bologna and Firenze SMN 3h 25'
30 minutes is still a lot for just two stops.
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Old July 14th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #272
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Quote:
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30 minutes is still a lot for just two stops.
The train idles 11 min on Firezne SMN platform.

Then, its approaches are woefully slow (a problem common to many Italian train stations for the lack of better switches near station and some stuff related to limitations of SCMT that I don't understand exactly).

The situation will get better with the new Bologna underground high(er) speed bypass (advanced u/c) and the new Firenze bypass (problematic, partially early stage u/c)
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #273
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Yeah I agree with that. Having watched a lot of Nikko's vids on youtube (he seems to have video'd every route in Italy!) I noticed how painfully slow the approaches were to most of the big stations. For many km as well.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 09:47 AM   #274
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A new train ferry for RFI is under construction:

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Old July 17th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #275
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Quote:
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A new train ferry for RFI is under construction:

Why do they need new train ferries? Aren't they going to build a bridge?
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Old July 17th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #276
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The Strait of Messina bridge project has been abandoned - and it would be impossible to build a fixed link to Sardinia (except from...France ).
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Old July 17th, 2012, 12:34 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The Strait of Messina bridge project has been abandoned - and it would be impossible to build a fixed link to Sardinia (except from...France ).
Hmm. Abandoned again, until it will be resurrected again...

But I had the impression, (last time I was in Messina) that RFI had enough ferries...
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Old July 17th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Then, its approaches are woefully slow (a problem common to many Italian train stations for the lack of better switches near station and some stuff related to limitations of SCMT that I don't understand exactly).
Not only for Firenze, also approach for Roma Termini is really slow by my experience.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 11:41 PM   #279
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Quote:
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30 minutes is still a lot for just two stops.
I agree but it is not my fault. I have nothing to do with the several cockups they have made in mis-planning their short HSR network.


Anyway:

Milan - Turin 4 hsts daily non stop per direction , journey lenght 153 km , journey time 61~ 67 minutes.


Milan - Bologna - , journey lenght = 219 km, journey time 65 minutes (on early morning the fast journey lenght is 2h)


MIlan - Naples , 770 kms, journey time: 4h 20' ~ 4h 50'

Florence -Bologna 37 minutes , journey lenght = 90 km

Florence -Rome Termini, journey lenght 252 km, journey time 1h 30', 1h 35'

Rome - Naples - Journey lenght 204 km, journey time 1h 10 minutes.


This extremely short semi-high speed network is certainly not the fastest in Europe, but it is certainly the most expensive one. The cost, not totally finalised, has already exceeded 30 billion euros, and this for just about 770 kms of new lines, built in the last decade.

The HSL Florence- Rome was built between 1974 and 1989 and should not be counted as a new HSL. Indeed it is called "The DD" and has a max top speed of 250 km/h).

The Milan - Turin cost 7 billions for the 125 km of the high speed section + 2.9 billion for the urban sections. On this line I have counted 4 non -stop train a day per each direction.

I hope I have made a mistake........
.

Last edited by joseph1951; July 17th, 2012 at 11:56 PM.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 02:08 AM   #280
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Some caveats:

- Firenze-Bologna is effectively a 75km trans-Apennine tunnel through an extremely seismic active fault. By all accounts except length of individual tunnels, it was a much more challenging project than the Gotthard tunnel.

- Italian HST was built with a concept of letting them be used by fast freight trains as well, which made the cost balloon

- the Milano-Torino sector was built with the future Lyon-Turin high-speed link in mind.

- there are more than just 4 non-stop trains between two cities. Tomorrow (18/7/2012) there are the following non-stop trains from Milano
(a) from Milano Centrale to Porta Susa: 8.00, 11.18, 14.10, 16.10, 17.18
(b) from Milano Porta Garibaldi to Porta Susa: 10.29, 12.29, 13.29, 18.29, 19.29, 21.29

11 departures... surely not much, but still much more than "just 4"

Later this year there will be trains from Itali as well...
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