Reforging the ANZAC's

[nazor]

Rudd, Key mull new Anzac force

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says he is considering the possibility of a joint contingent of Australian and New Zealand defence forces.

Mr Rudd met New Zealand Prime Minister John Key in Canberra this morning and Cabinet ministers from both countries will attend a joint meeting in Sydney tomorrow.

Mr Rudd has not released any details about the possible ANZAC contingent, but says there will be times when it would make sense for the forces to be jointly deployed.

"We believe, given the enormous bonds which already exist between our two armed forces, their common training doctrines and the compatibility of so much of their equipment, that this is actually a useful thing for us to do together," Mr Rudd said.

Mr Key says New Zealand is reassessing its defence arrangements and a joint contingent makes sense given the two countries already serve in many places together.

He says he does not know what capability would be required for a joint force or in what circumstances it would be deployed.

"It's a germ of an idea but it is something that the defence forces are interested in," Mr Keys said.

"The chief of defence forces on both sides of the Tasman will discuss [it] and we'll see how it goes."

Seams like a great idea! We are growing closer and closer!

[MILIUX]

In game theory, if ANZAC is a co-operation, then 'joint contingent' is collaborative?

It's one more step towards limiting sovereignty for both Australia and New Zealand.

[wowsim]

What's with using all those relatively otiose IR buzz words?

Has NATO limited the sovereignty of its participants? I think the US would answer in the negative.

[MILIUX]

Originally Posted by wowsim

What's with using all those relatively valueless IR buzz words?

Has NATO limited the sovereignty of its participants? I think the US would answer in the negative.

NATO is a security pact based on collective security model. If you attack a NATO state, then you basically have declared war on all NATO state. By default NATO members would be compelled to act to support one of its NATO member. This has always been the basis from the Cold War to the current such as the war in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia.

That compulsion clause limits ones sovereignty as it doesn't allow to reinforce independence.

[wowsim]

Originally Posted by MILIUX

NATO is a security pact based on collective security model. If you attack a NATO state, then you basically have declared war on all NATO state. By default NATO members would be compelled to act to support one of its NATO member. This has always been the basis from the Cold War to the current such as the war in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia.

That compulsion clause limits ones sovereignty as it doesn't allow to reinforce independence.

I know what it is. And it is a collective defence model, not collective security model.

Joining an international body/pact isn't like joining a federation, personal union, or even adopting a unified central bank....which have tangible effects on sovereignty.

[MILIUX]

Originally Posted by wowsim

I know what it is. And it is a collective defence model, not collective security model.

Joining an international body/pact isn't like joining a federation, personal union, or even adopting a unified central bank....which have tangible effects on sovereignty.

It's a step towards regionalism.

It's the first joint-cabinet meeting. Who knows what substantial policy will arise from that.

[TOCC]

Australia already has ANZUS, but what they are talking about here is a joint contingent, not the overall combining of the armed forces, it would be like having a infantry battalion made up of combined australians and kiwis, or a deployed task force which utilise the same support and logisitic assets.

[hornetfig]

I don't think it affects the sovereignty of Australia, but it may impact New Zealand: given the size of the New Zealand military, the only form of "joint contingent" (bloody hell!) force New Zealand could provide would be the whole of it.

[wowsim]

True. Half the NZ air-force's skyhawk fighters were based in Nowra if I'm not mistaken. I assume they were still fully integrated into the NZ military command structure... So it's not like this is a new concept in defence relations between the nations.