Birmingham Central Library Prayer Room

[mexico86]

But praying is not the same as having shit. And in any case, people of faith will not be praying in private, but in a public room with loads of other people.

[Elizabeth Kinoke]

Originally Posted by DaiB

Well I think a good starting point would be to see such things as 'private' rather than 'secret'. I think that's a critical distinction.

I mean, I need to have a shit as often as the next person. This isn't news. It's not something I make a secret of. It's neither something that I need to hide or that is a threat to anyone else. However, personally speaking, I still find it more comfortable to do it behind closed doors.

If you wish to be pedantic, many private things are carried out in secrecy and vice verse... THIS can create misstrust, when it need not exist.

Comparing going for shit, to praying is a bit insensitive IMO.

[moseeds]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Kinoke

Thanks for that post, it means a lot.

I'm spiritual but undecided on a lot of religious issues, of various faiths. The idea of a room or space which needs to be set aside for religion in a new library is disappointing, I have a good friend who is a dedicated Muslim, and often, before work, he would be reading quietly in his car. As i didn't want to disturb him I would nod and walk past out of respect, but I soon realised that he was also interested in me stopping and chatting (a break from his dedicated readings/prayers).

I liked this and it drew me closer to my friend and the teachings of Islam, it dispelled the myth of fanaticism that was in the headlines at the time.

I also like the idea of being able to mix and see people of all faiths, praying or reading quietly, in a building designed for knowledge and reading. A dedicated prayer room seems quite archaic to me? Why try and fix what isn't broken? A secret room or area for religion, hidden away, could just create more suspicion and misstrust in a P.C. world gone mad IMO.

thanks elizabeth i know what you mean. I've prayed in "odd" places. Hyde park, universal studios theme park, alton towers, on the street. There's no need to have a separate room at all it just adds the the separation between "them" and "us".

[DaiB]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Kinoke

Comparing going for shit, to praying is a bit insensitive IMO.

It's an analogy, not a comparison. Merely to illustrate that just because something goes on behind closed doors does not automatically make it threatening or sinister in any way. Just private.

[DaiB]

Originally Posted by mexico86

And in any case, people of faith will not be praying in private, but in a public room with loads of other people.

If I'm taking an exam, it's quite conceivable that I might be able to better concentrate on that exam if I'm in a room with other people taking an exam, rather than with other people walking about, reading, chatting, juggling, whatever.

The exam room will be 'private' in the sense that it is a space set aside for people to do an exam, and other people are not encouraged to disturb the activity. The atmosphere will be conducive to a better, more focused exam performance.

Is that a better? It's just a space set aside for an activity that (some) people find they can do more effectively in a set-aside space.

[Elizabeth Kinoke]

Originally Posted by moseeds

thanks elizabeth i know what you mean. I've prayed in "odd" places. Hyde park, universal studios theme park, alton towers, on the street. There's no need to have a separate room at all it just adds the the separation between "them" and "us".

I think this is what is lacking in Britain today, common sense. Britain has a rich history of culture and religion, Muslim faith is a great addition to this and one that should be celebrated. Prayer rooms, can be used, not only for prayer, but to fuel the fires of the ignorant and intolerant minority of this land. Pray and be proud, and of course, that goes for all religions, no need to hide away... provided prayer in the library is quiet, it's far more intriguing and welcoming than a segregated room.

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by moseeds

I'm muslim. I don't support a prayer room. If you fancy a prayer pick a spot and have a quick pray. it's a library and it's quiet. If more than one of you want to pray in congregation go to the nearest mosque. If you are so religious you want to keep timely prayers then arrange the library visit around prayer times not the other way round.

It's people like Moseeds who are great adverts for Islam. I've never read a post yet from him that doesn't hit the nail on the head.

[Tony Sebo]

Originally Posted by Republica

Its probably judged newsworthy because its some Muslims who started the petition.

If this was started by a Christian in Aberdeen and Aberdeen library got a prayer room i doubt anyone would have noticed.

But I don't think its controversial, i just dont think it should be there, just like I didnt think the chapel at uni should have been, just like I dont think there should be a smoking room or a hardcore porn room at the library.

are you kidding? the anti (christian) god zealots would have been all over it like the plague!

[Tony Sebo]

Originally Posted by moseeds

I'm muslim. I don't support a prayer room. If you fancy a prayer pick a spot and have a quick pray. it's a library and it's quiet. If more than one of you want to pray in congregation go to the nearest mosque. If you are so religious you want to keep timely prayers then arrange the library visit around prayer times not the other way round.

Perhaps the thought of chavs (going past outside, of course) shouting 'look at the paki's arse, he's bending over'' would be slightly off putting?

[Erebus555]

This is less of a library, more of a civic cultural centre. The library is just part of the complex which includes The REP Theatre. I think this prayer room would just further enhance all this, even if it is a non-descript room.

[Mojojojo.]

Originally Posted by Tony Sebo

Perhaps the thought of chavs (going past outside, of course) shouting 'look at the paki's arse, he's bending over'' would be slightly off putting?

I would like to add another point here
just like a prayer can be said anywhere, A mosque is not just for saying your prayers......

from wiki
"The mosque serves as a place where Muslims can come together for salat (prayer) (Arabic: صلاة‎, ṣalāt) as well as a center for information, education, and dispute settlement. The Imam leads the prayer."

[mexico86]

Originally Posted by Tony Sebo

are you kidding? the anti (christian) god zealots would have been all over it like the plague!

Probably, but in this PC age it would be banned and considered discriminatory to other religions.

[Tubeman]

I see no problem here; if there's room for it and its not hurting anyone then go for it.

To me this is much more about catering to library staff than library-goers. If you're a Muslim librarian working for 8 hours there is an expectation you should pray probably at least once during your shift. Library users can choose when they visit and how long for so can work prayer at a Mosque around their library visit, library workers don't have this opportunity.

Quiet / Prayer rooms are becoming standard in new and newly refurbished public buildings. My building has a 'quiet room' which is used by Muslim staff to pray, and equally used by non-Muslim staff to sit and read or have a nap... My building is better for it.

In fact, the bus drivers who are allowed in to use our canteen but are not allowed into the Quiet room / Train staff Mess room have to resort of praying on the fire exit stairs and I've often embarrassedly stepped around Muslim bus drivers on their prayer mats there. I think its pretty undignified and I've thought about allowing bus drivers into our quiet room too, but there's been too much friction between bus and Tube drivers in my building previously so I'll maintain the status quo for now.

[potto]

Next Elizabeth will be blabbing on about knocking churches down so she can see the congregation out in the streets singing hallelujah in M&S

[the spliff fairy]

yep ^ agree with Tubeman. Big fuss over nothing, its not hurting anyone

[Engels]

Originally Posted by Mojojojo.

whats wrong with that.....?????

it would be great if muslims can do some research about their own religion to find directions in a right way rather then listening to stupid Mullahs who teach hatred.

and just an Islamic section does not make it Islamic research institute

Er yes - i was trying to be sarcastic pointing out how that is a perfectly sensible use for a library Doh!

never mind - i forgot sarcasm isn't easy in written form.

Originally Posted by mexico86

Are you actually suggesting that all austrians and germans were nazis?

No!

[JDRS]

I don't particularly have a problem with a quiet room being set aside in general, however surely a library is just that anyway. The only reason I am against the inclusion of a prayer room is because this is a public building and I firmly believe that religion should play no part in state run institutions (especially schools!)

I don't think it's a particularly controversial issue to be honest. I just firmly believe in the principle of a secular state and base my judgement on that.

[GreenwichSE10]

its a library ffs...its a place to read and take books out not pray.FFS..why dont we install prayer rooms in petrol stations?

[nezzybaby]

^Yeah and we may as well install church spires on cats, or put choirs into vauxhall vectras. In what way is a large central library in anyway comparable to a petrol station?

[Caiman]

I wonder, will scientologists be allowed to practice their insane religion in the room?

Scientology is no more insane than islam, so I would hope so.