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Old May 9th, 2008, 07:25 AM   #141
adrimm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lileigh View Post
Fascinating! Bus doors on the "wrong" side instead of lanes on the "wrong" side. I guess they must figure they're never going to run those vehicles in general use - just for the busway. That's quite a commitment. Admirable.

They have over 1000 of the left-door articulated buses, so yep it is definitely a commitment since they *only* run on the buways and all of the stations are enclosed like the ones in the photo.. the only open-air platforms in the entire system are at the Termini stations. They also have some really cool bike parkades attached to the Termini stations, where secure bike parking (with an attendant) is built into the fare. And it has been a success there: The BRT is much faster than travelling by car on the same routes during rush hour.

Numberswise Bogota has redefined the capacity of BRT with peaks of 45,0000 ppdph, and even though it is only walking distance from fraction of the population, has 1.4 million rides a day. It is packed at rush hour. When they finish the network, something like 80% of the population will be 10 minutes from a station (a median station on a trunk line - aka bus-only busway).

They had the fortune that car-ownership was low enough that no one could argue against taking lanes away from the cars (although the mayor's popularity plumetted until it opened.) Making transit faster than driving discourages car use... which can only be a good thing since there simply wouldn't be enough road space for cars to be a solution.

So far the end result is that so many people take mass transit that the city get millions in Kyoto credits, for avoiding moving the same number of people in dirtier ways.

Streetfilms from NYC has a great video clip on their website:

http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/...ransit-bogota/
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Old May 9th, 2008, 09:24 PM   #142
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Trans Jakarta Busway!



The bus..



The Shelter







It Works!

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Old May 14th, 2008, 05:32 PM   #143
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Thanks for the info. Looks like some places have really got their act together, or have just the right circumstances (or both), whereas others haven't.

Fraid the streetfilms thing didn't work for me. Must be something wrong with my Flash Player
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Old May 15th, 2008, 11:49 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by =NaNdA= View Post
Trans Jakarta Busway!

It Works!

It sure does...too bad that most people (most drivers and politicans) will only see the congestion instead of the smooth flow of fast-moving buses.



Ah well...one day they will learn

Cheers, m
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Old May 15th, 2008, 04:02 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by adrimm View Post
Also, while left-door boarding they might not be special in Australia, I can imagine they would be special-order busses for us here in the Americas (North & South).. that makes them special in my books!!
All the buses here are ordered from overseas and assembled locally to order anyway, I'm sure there aren't too many places in the world where they don't get buses custom made anyway. It's not like you just go down to the local bus dealer and pick out a dozen.

Once you go for buses with the doors that high off the ground it doesn't matter much anyway, since they can only be used with the special stations. I think one of the advantages of our Busway is that though we have proper stations etc, the buses can exit the system and enter it, instead of having as some systems require, feeder buses where people then change to core route services. I think that's losing an important advantage over LRT.

The downside is of course, no median stations (unless you do what is done above and have the buses run counter to the usual for that section). I still think that's a better solution IMO than having the buses restricted to only servicing special stops no matter what. Taxi drivers here had a strike in Melbourne and blocked a tram line for a day (a whole intersection), whereas if it were a bus system, while there would be delays, temporary stops could be quickly setup and buses diverted around. For railed vehicles such a blockage is fatal to the system, it destroys it end to end, not just for the location of the blockage.
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Old May 15th, 2008, 11:40 PM   #146
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Phileas in Istanbul

Istanbul Orders 50 Trams With GM-Allison Hybrid System
15 May 2008
Phileas_concept
The concept of APTS’ Phileas system.

http://www.greencarcongress.com

The Istanbul (Turkey) Transportation Authority has ordered 50 Metrobus trams equipped with the GM-Allison hybrid system. This will be the largest fleet of the hybrids in Europe by next year. The first of the 50 trams, built by Dutch bus company Advance Public Transport Systems BV (APTS), was recently delivered. (Earlier post.) The remainder of the order will be fulfilled this year and in 2009.

The APTS Phileas rubber-tired trams run on a free bus lane which is fitted with magnetic markers for electronic lane assistance and precision docking, offering the advantages of rail transport with the lower costs and flexibility of a bus system. The Phileas has a lightweight body, the hybrid propulsion system from GM-Allison, and a large transport capacity.

Metrobus is Istanbul’s first Bus Rapid Transit corridor, which provides dedicated bus lanes and off-bus fare collection for faster and more reliable public transportation. With 14 stations and 245,000 daily passengers, Metrobus Istanbul is one of the most effective BRT lines in the world.

GM-Allison hybrid-powered buses and trams deliver significantly better fuel economy than conventional diesel buses and trams, cut emissions and have operating sound levels approaching that of passenger cars. Other benefits include reduced maintenance costs resulting from extended brake, engine oil and transmission oil life; superior torque; and improved acceleration.

The GM-Allison hybrid technology was chosen following extensive technical review and analysis of competing solutions. It was found that as well as low emissions, the Allison system was significantly easier to integrate and saved around 2,200 pounds (1,000 kg) per vehicle compared with competitor solutions, allowing cost and emissions reductions and an increase in payload.
—Jos Jansen, Marketing and Project Management, APTS

GM debuted the hybrid technology for transit buses in 2003. GM licenses the clean hybrid technology to Allison Transmission, which assembles and sells the hybrid transmission to bus and tram manufacturers.

So far, 1,039 GM-Allison hybrid-powered buses and trams are operating in North America and Europe. Major orders from transit agencies in Washington D.C., Philadelphia and Minneapolis/St. Paul for more than 1,700 buses will more than double the fleet. In May 2007, Dresden, Germany received the first international delivery of GM-Allison buses.

A study conducted in 2006 by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, comparing transit buses with GM-Allison’s hybrid in operation in Seattle, Washington, with their diesel counterparts found that the hybrid buses had a 27% higher fuel economy on average compared with that of diesel buses. Over the 12-month period, the diesel buses also carried a 4.5% higher maintenance cost than the hybrids: $0.46 per mile for the diesels, compared to $0.44 per mile for the hybrids.

Combining fuel costs with maintenance costs, an evaluation of total cost per mile gave the hybrids a distinct operational economic advantage: $1.06 per mile compared to the diesel $1.25 per mile.
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Old May 16th, 2008, 01:59 AM   #147
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well it depends it could work i just most of these busways installed overhead wires and such.

like the Bogota busway network they can use overhead wires and the buses can be a hybrid you know like in the network they use overhead wires like a trolleybus and then when their off the network then they can use Diesel.

it can work that way but no they use Diesel buses for the Busway network which is just dumb.

the same for the miami dade south busway they can use Overhead wires for the trolley electric part of the busway and then the buses are off the busway then they can use the diesel that way there is more benefit to the busway and the concept can be explored more.
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Old May 16th, 2008, 07:32 AM   #148
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Update on Johannesburg BRT

http://www.joburg.org.za/content/view/2487/168/







.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 12:00 PM   #149
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Just want to whare with u guys..

Trans Jakarta Shelter..



anyway, we will operate this 'long' bus soon..

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Old May 17th, 2008, 03:08 PM   #150
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Istanbul intorduced this system at the beginning of this year and it is really efficient. We call is "Metrobus" here.
















Last edited by Messi; May 17th, 2008 at 03:15 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2008, 04:13 AM   #151
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Love the look of those mercedes benz buses =) Looks like a great system.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 10:04 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pule View Post
FINALLY!! Hey, *niiiccce* design. Crosswalk access at intersections? Looks fabulous!
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Old May 20th, 2008, 10:10 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lileigh View Post
Thanks for the info. Looks like some places have really got their act together, or have just the right circumstances (or both), whereas others haven't.

Fraid the streetfilms thing didn't work for me. Must be something wrong with my Flash Player
I think you are bang on. It was definitely a combination of both for Bogota...... that and they had a *really* gutsy mayor. He was almost booted out of office when he first suggested they should hand over some car lanes to the busway.

Streetfilms also has the video it posted on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRGoketbIZE
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Old May 20th, 2008, 10:39 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Shado View Post
All the buses here are ordered from overseas and assembled locally to order anyway, I'm sure there aren't too many places in the world where they don't get buses custom made anyway. It's not like you just go down to the local bus dealer and pick out a dozen.

Once you go for buses with the doors that high off the ground it doesn't matter much anyway, since they can only be used with the special stations. I think one of the advantages of our Busway is that though we have proper stations etc, the buses can exit the system and enter it, instead of having as some systems require, feeder buses where people then change to core route services. I think that's losing an important advantage over LRT.

The downside is of course, no median stations (unless you do what is done above and have the buses run counter to the usual for that section). I still think that's a better solution IMO than having the buses restricted to only servicing special stops no matter what. Taxi drivers here had a strike in Melbourne and blocked a tram line for a day (a whole intersection), whereas if it were a bus system, while there would be delays, temporary stops could be quickly setup and buses diverted around. For railed vehicles such a blockage is fatal to the system, it destroys it end to end, not just for the location of the blockage.

In Eugene Oregon, they've found a tidy solution. They are using median stations, with articulated buses that have doors on either side. So they can still use the median stations, but move off the busway.

http://www.newflyer.com/docs/investo..._FlyerBRT.html This is a video clip of them. What I don't like is that the platforms are *not* level boarding, and the stations offer very mediocre shelter for a place that gets alot of rain in the winter.. what I do like is that they have ful BRT access to the very efficient median station, but are still able to function off of the busway if needed.

While riding one bus all the way may make it more attractive for ridership my concern with the "no transfer-system" where buses continue off the busway is that people are so dispersed in the suburbs... which is the case for us - it mayt be totally different for you and many others in this discssion - I don't know Brisbane or any city in Australia personally so everything that comes to my english-speaking mind is our local urban-suburban context (which gets very dispersed).

If we had the the "no transfer system" we might wind up with just 20 people staying on a giant articulated bus heading out to a single neighbourhood off of the busway. If that one bus did the entire circuit of 4 or 5 neighbourhoods after leaving the busway (in mixed traffic), so try and serve a larger population then we would quickly lose any time-savings gained while on the busway.

Having the BRT bus go to the Terminus, then maybe continue on *directly* on to the single most populous neighbourhood (no dallying), would make it fast but only for people in that one area and you'd still have to have transfers for those living elsewhere.

I like to think of it like spokes radiating out from the terminus, highly frequent & direct trips to each neighbourhood, with a very minimal waits at the terminus of the BRT (less than 2mins). It maximizes speed.

I also feel that the cultural acceptance of transfers also varies alot.. .. in my particular area it is fairly common to need to transfer buses or modes already,it isn't a big deal here, especially if it would make the trip go faster.

Let's face it, nothing stacks up well against the comfort of a car, so not maximise what a car *can't* offer by making Transit as fast as possible?
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Last edited by adrimm; May 21st, 2008 at 04:05 AM. Reason: adding link
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Old May 21st, 2008, 08:52 AM   #155
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What I don't like is that the platforms are *not* level boarding
It looks close enough though, it's low floor and wheelchair acessible, looks like most wheelchair users probably wouldn't even need the little ramp.

Quote:
and the stations offer very mediocre shelter for a place that gets alot of rain in the winter.. what I do like is that they have ful BRT access to the very efficient median station, but are still able to function off of the busway if needed.
Yeah here the station cover overhangs the busway a little so you can board during rain, which is usually during the summer here anyway.

Quote:
If we had the the "no transfer system" we might wind up with just 20 people staying on a giant articulated bus heading out to a single neighbourhood off of the busway. If that one bus did the entire circuit of 4 or 5 neighbourhoods after leaving the busway (in mixed traffic), so try and serve a larger population then we would quickly lose any time-savings gained while on the busway.
Yeah the articulated buses are really only for core routes. The difference is in a feeder system, you have say a 50 seater bus doing the winding feeder route, then it gets to the core busway where you transfer, wait 2-5 minutes, then do 'all stops' to your destination. With the feeder bus continuing on, you can get an express service where those that have just spent 25 minutes doing the 'feeder' route, make back the time spent by going express. I guess this works better in small-mid capacity systems where you don't have enough passengers to run multiple different express routes with articulated busses.

Here what many people do, rather than take a feeder service (which as you say spends alot of time winding through 4-5 neighbourhoods, is drive to their closest stop with an express service and utilise park and ride facilities. This gives a faster end>end time than driving.

Quote:
I also feel that the cultural acceptance of transfers also varies alot.. .. in my particular area it is fairly common to need to transfer buses or modes already,it isn't a big deal here, especially if it would make the trip go faster.
Here it's the dual lack of a transfer accompanied with an express service that makes the difference, if you were to transfer it would be to an all stops service, adding both the time for the transfer and the all stops. You would save no time at all since you either would still have to spend time on a feeder service, or you joined it at the last stop anyway, making it in many cases much faster than the car (vs peak hour traffic)

Quote:
Let's face it, nothing stacks up well against the comfort of a car, so not maximise what a car *can't* offer by making Transit as fast as possible?
Exactly, being faster, less stressful and cheaper than taking the car here is what makes the system work. It's amazing to watch ridership numbers take off as certain things happen (like when the core services frequency was changed from 15 minutes to 5 minutes, all of a sudden people didn't need timetables). Now people are waiting just a couple of minutes for the core services in addition to customised express routes. It's the stopping and starting that slows it down to car like (in peak) or slower outside peak, speeds. Express services end up being faster than taking the car, and here where everyone pretty much 'must' have one anyway, that's what the system is competing against.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 12:57 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrimm View Post
FINALLY!! Hey, *niiiccce* design. Crosswalk access at intersections? Looks fabulous!
I like it also but I still wanna see how the BRT bus stop next to Soccer City Stasium will look like as there is no space there.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 06:48 PM   #157
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Cape Town announced today its R2.8 billion BRT system that will be finished before 2010.
New safer tranes , Clean stations , BRT , airport City rail link. Will soon start using public transport ( some time this year ). Diesel and petrol is anyway to damn expensive.
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Old May 25th, 2008, 05:07 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Argentinian Messi View Post
Istanbul intorduced this system at the beginning of this year and it is really efficient. We call is "Metrobus" here.
Wow, what a beautiful system! Nice design.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 06:41 AM   #159
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Clever video about efficiency & transit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guodaBkDPP0


Eugene's EMX - with doors on *both* sides so it can used median platforms and curbs.

image hosted on flickr

source: flickr

image hosted on flickr

source:flickr

image hosted on flickr

source: flickr


You can see a short video clip here http://www.itdp.org/index.php/news_e...rt_award_2008/)

Incidently Eugene's EMX was a candidate for the 2008 ITDP Sustainable transport award along with BRTs in Pereira Colombia and somewhere in Guatemala. Read more below. Past candidates also include a number of BRT systems all over the world. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv2juTMMz78

And some commentary about the Eugene Emx starting at the 5 minute mark below: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcRnGOmz1Cs
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Last edited by adrimm; June 10th, 2008 at 08:31 AM. Reason: adding photo link
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Old June 11th, 2008, 09:25 PM   #160
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delhi metro PILOT

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


it wasn't popular among delhi's car-driving population because the cars clogged up the roads. what the authorities should have done is tax car drivers and force them to use the brts. there are plans to expand this system all over delhi, but now it might be different because the car driving population responded to this so poorly.
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