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Old August 19th, 2009, 12:24 AM   #181
BART Rider
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I hope that last line was a joke.

Really, because AC Transit specifies 32 seats but does not say it can hold ANY standees. What can you say to that one?

Another comment: The Van Hool buses have aisles that are narrower than our domestic ones. How on earth do you expect that they'll hold more standees?

I'm comparing passenger capacity. NOT number of seats.

Last edited by BART Rider; August 19th, 2009 at 01:23 AM.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 01:29 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teach View Post
You're not seriously trying to tell me that a hybrid bus (a more advanced technology than a diesel) only costs HALF of a diesel bus, are you?
I'm not buying those numbers either. I did this here Google search and what I've seen so far seems to indicate that hybrids cost more than diesels.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 01:37 AM   #183
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Quote:
Really, because AC Transit specifies 32 seats but does not say it can hold ANY standees. What can you say to that one?
So, let's see: because AC Transit doesn't say how many people can stand in one of the Van Hools, you just decided to deduct from that that no-one can stand in them? Wow, I must admit I didn't see that one coming! Brilliant deduction!

You can't possibly be serious, can you?
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Old August 19th, 2009, 02:00 AM   #184
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Alright Teach: explain this one than. How come they said it for every other bus they had. All of my comparisons were based on statistics of TOTAL PASSENGER CAPACITY (including standees) directly from AC Transit's website. The idea that Van Hools can have more standees is backward, because the aisles in the front and back of the bus are 2 feet wide. In comparison, the aisles of a NABI bus are about 40' wide. Wider aisles=more standees.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 02:36 AM   #185
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Quote:
Alright Teach: explain this one than. How come they said it for every other bus they had.
Explain this to me: I see and travel on Van Hool buses over here regularly, not all that different from the ones you have.

Guess what: people stand up in them. I know, shocker and all.

As for why it isn't on their page? The page is clearly very outdated: the 30 foot VH isn't even on there, neither is the new two-door 40 footer, and the 60 foor VH's seat count is 'TBD' (to be determined), meaning that info was put up there before they entered service, and even before the exact configuration was determined. So, the info isn't exactly complete, which explains why the number of standees isn't mentioned.

Oh, and the low number of seats for the 40 footer: these are the ones with the third door. Adding another door takes away quite a few seats. It also creates a lot of open space for extra standees.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 07:40 AM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BART Rider View Post
Alright Teach: explain this one than. How come they said it for every other bus they had. All of my comparisons were based on statistics of TOTAL PASSENGER CAPACITY (including standees) directly from AC Transit's website. The idea that Van Hools can have more standees is backward, because the aisles in the front and back of the bus are 2 feet wide. In comparison, the aisles of a NABI bus are about 40' wide. Wider aisles=more standees.
40 foot aisles?!?!?!
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Old August 19th, 2009, 07:42 AM   #187
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Sorry. One character makes all the difference.

40'' aisles.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 04:03 PM   #188
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2 feet?! Though I'm not sure which bus model you're talking about, but over here it's possible to stand with two people next to each other in the width of an aisle. That's what I used to do with fellow students nearly every morning a couple of years ago.

For the rest of the world who uses the metric system: 2 feet = 61cm, 40 inch = 102cm (that should save you guys from doing the calculations).

Also, at festivals I've been in those articulated buses and I'm pretty certain there were over 70 people on the bus. We were packed though so it is impossible for me to give an accurate number. It's a shame I can't find any numbers of roughly how many people can get on a bus.

I was sort of hoping that this topic would've died weeks ago because people realised it's all just a matter of opinion and has nothing to do with Van Hool, but sadly enough that didn't happen.

Greetings,
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Old August 19th, 2009, 06:43 PM   #189
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I am of course estimating, but I believe that's about right. It might even be a little less.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 10:42 PM   #190
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Shouldn't they be able to enter just as easily as everyone else?

FORUM BUG: This post should be after yin_yang's

Last edited by BART Rider; August 21st, 2009 at 11:10 PM.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 10:44 PM   #191
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toronto's look a lot like the picture teach posted, only without the elevated rear section. some of them being articulated.



see how the front of the bus is a bit elevated? that makes disabled entry tricky. tough luck.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 12:22 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yin_yang View Post
toronto's look a lot like the picture teach posted, only without the elevated rear section. some of them being articulated.

[picture snipped]

see how the front of the bus is a bit elevated? that makes disabled entry tricky. tough luck.
I've been on those buses many times. The disabled enter through the middle door, where they can anchor their scooters or whatever. The driver opens the door and flips out a ramp to allow wheeled access. Several seats by the door fold up to make room. Those buses are part of York Region's prepaid premium express service Viva; people buy tickets beforehand and board through all doors. The driver does not take fares.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 12:24 AM   #193
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And does the driver have to get up to do that? They do here, and to me it's completely backwards. They should be able to deploy a ramp from their seat without delaying the boarding of other passengers.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 03:34 AM   #194
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You seem to be reaching for any excuse now. The time it takes a driver to activate the ramp on a Van Hool is probably equal to the time it takes a wheelchair to navigate the front door ramp, and into the wheelchair area. I have seen wheelchairs take a couple of minutes to board a NFI, and Orion Bus.

The best bus for front door access is the Nova LFS. The front door is extra wide.

The advantage of living the Greater Toronto Area is there is a great variety of bus models, and the Van Hools are decent buses.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 03:45 AM   #195
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No, it's not an "excuse" as you put it. I am discussing what I consider to be problems. Yes, they are decent buses in YOUR opinion. Some people here in the Bay Area disagree. I've talked to a few people, and they'd be perfectly happy with a bus with seats ON THE FLOOR and a front door wheelchair ramp.

Tell me, any problem with this?
http://www.gillig.com/New%20GILLIG%20WEB/Brt.htm

Oh, and if you're about to tell me that they're not good quality, take a look at this review.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/gillig-corporation-hayward

And according to that page, Gilligs run around $3k. I could be wrong, but aren't Van Hools more expensive?
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 05:53 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BART Rider View Post
And does the driver have to get up to do that? They do here, and to me it's completely backwards. They should be able to deploy a ramp from their seat without delaying the boarding of other passengers.
No, it's not necessary but for proper customer service, the driver should be getting up to help those passengers either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
The best bus for front door access is the Nova LFS. The front door is extra wide.
Very true.

image hosted on flickr

Photography by BuckyHermit - Hosted on Flickr

Last edited by deasine; August 22nd, 2009 at 06:01 AM.
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Old August 22nd, 2009, 01:28 PM   #197
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Quote:
No, it's not an "excuse" as you put it. I am discussing what I consider to be problems. Yes, they are decent buses in YOUR opinion. Some people here in the Bay Area disagree. I've talked to a few people, and they'd be perfectly happy with a bus with seats ON THE FLOOR and a front door wheelchair ramp.

Tell me, any problem with this?
http://www.gillig.com/New%20GILLIG%20WEB/Brt.htm

Oh, and if you're about to tell me that they're not good quality, take a look at this review.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/gillig-corporation-hayward

And according to that page, Gilligs run around $3k. I could be wrong, but aren't Van Hools more expensive?
Seriously, just a few days ago you were crying that we should stop 'picking on you' and let the thread die. Yet, at every opportunity that presents itself, there you are YET again, repeating YET again the exact same mantra. We get it already, seriously. Is it a form of masochism?

image hosted on flickr


That bus looks a lot like a rip-off of the previous Van Hool generation:



The wide front doors, btw, (as already previously pointed out in this thread) are actually standard on Van Hool buses over here. So the reason the AC Van Hools have narrower front doors is because they asked for them.

Last edited by Teach; August 22nd, 2009 at 01:38 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 02:08 AM   #198
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NOVA Bus is a division of Volvo, so I guess there's your "European Influence"
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Old August 24th, 2009, 02:34 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
NOVA Bus is a division of Volvo, so I guess there's your "European Influence"
Also interestingly, the LFS was based on the Den Oudsten Alliance and he New Flyer D40LF was based on the Den Oudstem B85 (especially clear on the very early D40LF).
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Old August 24th, 2009, 09:54 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BART Rider View Post
No, it's not an "excuse" as you put it. I am discussing what I consider to be problems. Yes, they are decent buses in YOUR opinion. Some people here in the Bay Area disagree. I've talked to a few people, and they'd be perfectly happy with a bus with seats ON THE FLOOR and a front door wheelchair ramp.
Weather the ramp is automaticly deployed or manual is a customer specified item. Ie if the operator wanted an automatic ramp they would have ordered one. No doubt if they order a US made bus they would have ordered the same type of ramp, so the whole discussion is moot. Like most of this thread actually.
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