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Old November 28th, 2011, 12:04 PM   #361
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I completely agree. Warsaw doesn't deserve such simple-minded, narrow solutions. It definitely needs more reconstructions and good renovations.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #362
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Normaly I would scoff at any idea reconstruction but seeing your pictures and hearing your arguments has changed my mind.

If anything I think that contrast with older buildings can make modern architecture look better.
Older buildings are part of what makes a city and the reason I love London. This can only be a good idea as long as long as it stays as reconstruction, I can't imagine any of this looking good in dubai
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Old November 30th, 2011, 02:46 PM   #363
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Totally agree, it's obvious why such cities as Paris, Vienna, Rome, Venice, Budapest etc. etc. are so popular with visitors, it sure isn't because of the post WW2 structures! Totally modern cities are soul-less and totally boring, e.g. Brasilia which is all post 1950's and as boring as hell.
I wouldn't say that. Lots of American cities with primarily modernist downtowns have soul.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 02:59 PM   #364
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Sure, but on the whole the old is aestheticaly better.
+100. Sure, there are some modern buildings I really like but I still find older architecture much more appealing and interesting.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 06:39 PM   #365
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Frankfurt a. M. :
Kaufhalle until 1970:

1970 until last year:

right now:
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Old November 30th, 2011, 06:44 PM   #366
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wow!! great!! hopefully Montevideo imitate the example someday...

who is responsible who have rebuilt?
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Old November 30th, 2011, 07:31 PM   #367
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I wouldn't say that. Lots of American cities with primarily modernist downtowns have soul.
People have souls.

Cities have only concrete, steel and stones. They are lifeless entities by definition when talking about its buildings, streets and other infrastructure. Concrete and steel are "soulless", which is why I never understand, for instance, the idea of someone getting emotional because of a building being demolished if they have no direct personal relation to it (like it was the home they lived on childhood or the school they studied etc.)

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+100. Sure, there are some modern buildings I really like but I still find older architecture much more appealing and interesting.
The problem with this mentality is the head-in-the-sand approach that, combined with extremist environmental activism, mean nothing revolutionary new can be built because:

(1) if built in an existing active urban area, it will "kill its character and tradition and harmony"

(2) if built on greenfield, it will damage the environment and produce "sprawl"

(3) if built on brownfield (like a former industrial estate), it will "disrespect the industrial/port/mining heritage" of the place by making no references to it.

So where should people build completely new, modern, glass-steel-and-no-ornaments buildings in futuristic streets? Looks like a catch-22 situation: can't build in downtown because it will "ruin" it, can build elsewhere because it will "divert the centrality" or other b.s.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 07:49 PM   #368
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People have souls.
Well actually there's no evidence of that either, it's just a religious belief. Anyway when people say that a city or a building has a soul they don't mean it literally, as if demolished buildings lived on for eternity up in heaven. Take it as "atmosphere" or "certain vibe" if that makes it clearer.

As for the second part of your comment, it would only be valid if there were indeed a shortage of possibilities and sites to build new buildings. Go to any city around the world and you will see that is not the case. I live in a city that was founded 2,600 years ago and there are new buildings cropping up all over the place, all the time.
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Old November 30th, 2011, 09:12 PM   #369
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Berlin, Alte Kommandatur 1795/96, heavily damaged during World War II and destroyed in order to make room for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of East Germany. In 1995, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of East Germany itself was demolished. The Alte Kommandantur has been rebuilt by Bertelsmann to become its Berlin headquarter. The building was completed in November 2003. Critics of this reconstruction see it as an example of the Disneyfication of the center of Berlin.
What do they mean by "disneyfication"?
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Old November 30th, 2011, 09:40 PM   #370
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Disneyfication is a concept of urban planning and architectural sociology. It stands for a new definition of city and society where the revival of old value systems play a central role. The concept of the theme park alone is no longer the beautiful, short-term, exit from the real world, it now promises to improve real world. Disneyfication is a symbol of the realization of the "American Dream" in an artificial way...everything is fine, everybody is happy, every building looks like it´s hundreds of years old...just unreal...fake...in architecture you can say it´s the "new urbanism": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Urbanism
i´m not sure if i like it or not...some rebuilt stuff is just great and you can see for example in the district i live (prenzlauer berg in berlin), that everybody wants to move in a refurbished old building and NOT into new high-end-loft-whatever-stuff...some new buildings even look like they are about 100 years old...for example this one, just in my neighbourhood finished 2 years ago:
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Old December 1st, 2011, 12:34 AM   #371
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Beautiful!
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Old December 1st, 2011, 01:04 AM   #372
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That's the new classicism of Berlin!

Some examples that are already built or are going to be build in the city:

Fellini Residences:


Rosengärten:


Kronprinzengärten:


Hausvogteiplatz


Charlottenpalais:


Kronenpalais:


I really dig those projects!
All of course not reconstructions, but newly designed buildings.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 04:43 AM   #373
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Cool ! this is the new revival, ornaments free.. i like that...
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Old December 1st, 2011, 08:38 AM   #374
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Impressive!
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Old December 1st, 2011, 10:09 AM   #375
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That looks very very good. I expecially like Hausvogteiplatz and the building in prenzlauer berg that Xorcist refer too. Woow.

When you say 'new classicism of Berlin' is that something you came up with or is that an "official" concept or trend that you can refer too?
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Old December 1st, 2011, 05:38 PM   #376
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I kind of came up with it. Though I have heard people talk about it in German as "Neuer Berliner Klassizismus". Since reunification it's a strong trend especially in Berlin. In other german cities not so much.
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Old December 1st, 2011, 11:29 PM   #377
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Ahh sounds like typical architect speak.
They don't want to create classicial buildings, but everybody wants to live in them.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 02:20 AM   #378
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New classicism is a term that has been coined some time ago. There are even books out about the style, and one of its greatest proponents is the award-winning architect Demitri Porphyrios.

Disneyfication and new urbanism do not run parallel, that's degrading the seriousness of new urbanism. New Urbanism aims to re-examine and repair the damage; socially, economically and environmentally, that modernism urban planning has caused. Read the wiki link already provided, as well as this to get a better idea.
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 03:06 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by skymantle View Post
New classicism is a term that has been coined some time ago. There are even books out about the style, and one of its greatest proponents is the award-winning architect Demitri Porphyrios.

Disneyfication and new urbanism do not run parallel, that's degrading the seriousness of new urbanism. New Urbanism aims to re-examine and repair the damage; socially, economically and environmentally, that modernism urban planning has caused. Read the wiki link already provided, as well as this to get a better idea.
you´re right, but sometimes i think there is a thin line between new urbanism and disney...btw...the following example has nothing to do with it...i really love the reconstruction in Leipzig...it´s one of my favorite cities in germany...most of the reconstruction is on a very high level...

Leipzig 2006:


NOW:
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Old December 2nd, 2011, 05:17 AM   #380
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i´m not sure if i like it or not...some rebuilt stuff is just great and you can see for example in the district i live (prenzlauer berg in berlin), that everybody wants to move in a refurbished old building and NOT into new high-end-loft-whatever-stuff...some new buildings even look like they are about 100 years old...for example this one, just in my neighbourhood finished 2 years ago:
Not sure what you mean with that. But loft buildigns (in the sense of refurbished brickwork industrial buildings) are actually quite popular and in a sense also histroic or neo-historic if built new in the same style.

And "high-end"? All these refurbished old building or reconstructed/ new histroic buildings are also high end with floor heating, luxury baths, oak floor pannels, elevator straight down to underground parking etc.

So in the end the only difference is the facade. What I don't oppose since the combination of modern apartment with ornamental style facade is nice.
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