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Old February 22nd, 2010, 02:05 AM   #61
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Paris City Hall

In 1871, after the Commune:


Today (it was rebuilt between 1874 and 1882):


Renaissance-looking, but entirely rebuilt between 1874 and 1882 (they made a rather faithful copy of the building as it existed before 1871):
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 02:16 AM   #62
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Beautiful!!!
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Old February 24th, 2010, 04:34 PM   #63
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Warsaw old town:
Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Yes, one of the most large scale reconstructions in the world.
Indeed. But other (intact!) old towns had to suffer / be partially demolished to make this possible. That isn't quite the right way to do it!
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Old February 24th, 2010, 05:00 PM   #64
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Great thread!

I would like to see some examples from Britain. Landmarks like Big Ben and St Paul´s were repaired, but are there any other examples?

Paris´town hall looks great, but I have to say that when I visited Riga and Frankfurt I was quite shocked by how tacky and cheap the rebuilt buildings look.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 05:21 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
Great thread!

I would like to see some examples from Britain. Landmarks like Big Ben and St Paul´s were repaired, but are there any other examples?
The less said about Britain the better! What wasn't destroyed by the Victorians was either destroyed by the Luftwaffe or demolished by city councils in the 1950s, 60s and 70s. I don't think any other European country has treated its architectural heritage with such complete contempt (apart from some obvious Eastern-bloc countries e.g. Romania). There's very little civic pride over here. In fact I'm struggling to think of any historic building in Britain that has been totally reconstructed.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 02:33 PM   #66
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^I know, it´s sad. However, I know a few buildings (at least in London) were rebuilt. Not to mention all the buildings qy architect Quinlan Terry that have been constructed in Britain
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Old February 25th, 2010, 03:01 PM   #67
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Its interesting how some countries, more than others seem to invest so much of their national identity in their old towns and buildings. Their enemies seem to recognise this when destroying them. As soon as possible afterwards the destroyed city rebuilts a facsimile showing that their country and its identity undamaged by that enemy. Other countries seem to take every opportunity to embrace the new. Id like to read a proper book on this!
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Old February 25th, 2010, 06:25 PM   #68
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^ Could you explain what you're talking about in a more elaborate way?
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Old February 25th, 2010, 08:10 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
^ Could you explain what you're talking about in a more elaborate way?
I can't speak for Steppenwolf, but I assumed they meant that some countries' sense of their national identity is more heavily invested in its architectural heritage than in other countries. For example, during WW2 Churchill gave orders that St Paul's cathedral must be saved from Nazi bombings at any cost. I have no doubt that if St Paul's had been destroyed then it would've been reconstructed (assuming the outcome of the war had been the same as it was). Many Wren churches were reconstructed after the war (I must add them to this thread actually), but hardly anything else of significance. Maybe Steppenwolf was referring primarily to Poland, Germany and Russia, the three countries I regard as suffering the biggest architectural losses during WW2. I know there is a discussion going on in parts of Germany about whether it's morally right to rebuild structures that were destroyed during the war, especially when those buildings are emblematic of Prussian imperialism e.g. the three stadtschloss in Berlin, Potsdam and Braunschweig or the Potsdam Garrison church. The question is 'was Germany's decision to reconstruct so much after the war a sign of a greater sense of national identity and civic pride or a desire to erase the crushing defeat of World War 2?'.

A related issue is the Baedeker raids on England ordered by Hitler as revenge for the Allied attack on the Hanseatic town of Lubeck. Both the Allies and Germany were misguided in their belief that destroying cultural, non-military sites in both continental Europe and in England would destroy public morale. It just didn't happen.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 10:01 PM   #70
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Quote:
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The question is 'was Germany's decision to reconstruct so much after the war a sign of a greater sense of national identity and civic pride or a desire to erase the crushing defeat of World War 2?'
Neither. We just want our architectural gems back!

Some of our old towns have been the most historically important of Europe. Frankfurt, Dresden, Hildesheim, Nürnberg, Braunschweig, Würzburg, Heilbronn, Braunschweig, Lübeck, Kassel, Potsdam, Rostock, Bremen, Koblenz, Mainz, Aachen, Ulm, Magdeburg, Augsburg, ..... The list of sad losses goes on and on. Include all the bigger cities such as Hamburg, München (good reconstruction job luckily), Berlin or Köln and all the industrially stamped, yet picturesque cities as in the Ruhr, Silesian or Prussian region. Darn.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 11:12 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Warsaw old town:

Indeed. But other (intact!) old towns had to suffer / be partially demolished to make this possible. That isn't quite the right way to do it!
never heard/read anything about that! what do you mean?
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Old February 26th, 2010, 03:53 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpaw View Post
The question is 'was Germany's decision to reconstruct so much after the war a sign of a greater sense of national identity and civic pride or a desire to erase the crushing defeat of World War 2?'.
I don't think that Germany reconstructed that much their monuments after the war. They only did the bare minimum. Less than that, and their cities would have been totally soulless (like so many Chinese and Korean cities today where they destroyed all the ancient city centers).
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Old February 26th, 2010, 10:03 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMass View Post
never heard/read anything about that! what do you mean?
Warsaw was rebuilt with construction material from other towns, as far as I know all of them former German towns awarded to Poland after the war. Wroclaw delivered up to 165 million bricks each year during the early 50s, not only simple bricks but valuable Gothic ones, moreover old facade ornaments or stony door and window frames; all the stuff you need to reconstruct medieval houses. The entire eastern part of Wroclaws old town was more or less demolished to rebuilt Warsaw, a part which was hit by the war, but was rebuildable. The same happened in Nysa and Brzeg, both also in Silesia.
In Silesia there were other strange losses until the early 60s. The preserved old towns of Jelenia Gora and Legnica were demolished too, but here I don't know what happended with the material.
The churches of Warsaw were filled with interiors from churches of the so called "recovered territories". Lubiasz for example, Silesias biggest monastery, lost more or less its entire interior and is in a very sad condition today.
Warsaws museums and libraries were also filled with material from these regions. The entire inventory of the Silesian museums is now more or less in Warsaw, all transfered to Warsaw already shortly after the war. Many Silesian libraries, like the Schaffgotsch library, once the biggest privately owned library of Germany, were moved to Warsaw to replace the destroyed stock.

Last edited by Karasek; February 26th, 2010 at 12:58 PM.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 12:18 PM   #74
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I managed to find a rare example from England!!

St Ethelburga-the-Virgin within Bishopsgate, London Built 1411, Destroyed 1993, Rebuilt 2002

One of the very few medieval churches that survived both the Great Fire of London in 1666 and the Blitz of the Second World War, St Ethelburga was almost totally destroyed by an IRA bomb in 1993:

The first church of St Ethelburga the Virgin in Bishopsgate was built around 1180. The present building was probably founded around 1400, making it one of the oldest medieval buildings in the City of London. When built it was the biggest building in Bishopsgate - now it's the smallest.


http://www.stethelburgas.org/ourhistory.htm

The Church of England wanted the remains of the church demolished but there was an outcry so the church was rebuilt on its old plan but with a reorganised interior.

1951:

http://www.***********.com/detail/32...Hulton-Archive

April 1993:

http://www.stethelburgas.org/ourhistory.htm

After Reconstruction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Ethe...7s_Bishopsgate
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Old February 27th, 2010, 04:59 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
In Silesia there were other strange losses until the early 60s. The preserved old towns of Jelenia Gora and Legnica were demolished too, but here I don't know what happended with the material.
Jelenia Gora was left untouched by the war but you can see in these pictures how the old town 'disappeared' in the 1960s


http://wroclaw.hydral.com.pl/


http://www.radford.edu/~jolanta/slides/jeleniagora.html
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Old February 28th, 2010, 09:42 PM   #76
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Would you guys agree with moving this thread to the general classic architecture forum?


We could implement great reconstructions all around the globe then.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 08:09 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpaw View Post
Jelenia Gora was left untouched by the war but you can see in these pictures how the old town 'disappeared' in the 1960s
And here is Legnica. Before '45:




Directly after the war:




Today:



(all from http://wroclaw.hydral.com.pl)
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 11:54 AM   #78
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Utterly disgusting
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 07:38 PM   #79
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The thing is, as well, was that many of these cities in the (current) west of Poland we lawless and/or tools for propaganda. Often, the Soviet and eventually Polish government "polonized" many areas by removing emblems, structures and/or landscapes that were entirely German to suit the need of that propaganda. That, and the absolutely flaccid and wrecked state of the economy, coupled with the need for housing and/or improvements to infrastructure, provided "ammo" for many of post-war Communist governments, at all levels, to remove many buildings. The "bricks to Warsaw" scenario is entirely over-exaggerated. It's not an excuse, but it provides great context.

Everyone should also check out Antony Tung's "Preserving the World's Greatest Cities." It's an amazing title talking about the structure to preserve and, more importantly, what it means for us today (i.e., sure you preserve something, but what can you do it with? that's were adaptive reuse comes in). Anyways, check out the book!
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 07:59 PM   #80
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Looking at these photos literally makes me feel ill. So so sad to see the needless destruction of a community!
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