daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 21st, 2010, 11:11 PM   #141
Urbanista1
Here and Now
 
Urbanista1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes (Received): 5284

People forget how much destruction happened during WWI - I am quite surprised. I always imagined it as a gentleman's war.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Urbanista1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 22nd, 2010, 01:22 AM   #142
JohnnyMass
Whatever
 
JohnnyMass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Porto
Posts: 46,077
Likes (Received): 1493

Quote:
Originally Posted by z0nnebril View Post
Gardens...come on! I want buildings!
Better something than nothing!

But I agree with you, I would love to see some historic building reconstructed in Portugal but, as for so many other countries in Europe, it will never happen. We have an annoying policy of "if it's gone then it's gone forever, belongs to the past"...
__________________
Edit my Signature
JohnnyMass no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 01:37 AM   #143
J-Ph
Registered User
 
J-Ph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 254
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
People forget how much destruction happened during WWI - I am quite surprised. I always imagined it as a gentleman's war.
Well, that’s certainly not the case here. Anyway you may have this impression because the areas which suffered destructions were comparatively smaller, and not so many countries where affected
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Ph View Post
/.../

A few other examples in France :
/.../
After these examples of restorations/reconstructions of historical buildings during the XIXth century and after WWI, this is a more modest and recent example (I don’t mention major buildings extensively restored after WW2, as I lack pictures)

“Hotel Bourgtheroulde” in Rouen (mansion house, early XVIth century).

Gallery and main façade before WW2

source : culture.gouv.fr

The main tower and the top of the façade being rebuilt after WWII (without the sculptures of the tower unfortunately) :

source: culture.gouv.fr

The courtyard today (the gallery on the left and one part of the façade have kept their sculptures until today) :

source : http://www.hotelsparouen.com/gallery.php

A detail of the preserved gallery :

(source : http://rouen.blogs.com/.a/6a00e551da...c2f8970b-750wi )


The wing along the street is comparatively unspectacular. It used to have a turret, which was destroyed in the early XIXth century (nothing to do with WW2!), so there is no picture of it, but there are precise drawings.
That turret was rebuilt last year, as the house itself underwent massive transformation to become a hotel :

The turret being rebuilt :

source : http://bourgtheroulde.blogspot.com/

source : http://bourgtheroulde.blogspot.com/

source : http://rouen.blogs.com/photo/2010/02...i%C3%A8re.html

Before (2002) :

Source : culture.gouv.fr

After (2010) :
__________________

Highcliff, entazis liked this post
J-Ph no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 02:47 PM   #144
redstone
Lurker
 
redstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Singapore
Posts: 14,056
Likes (Received): 52

What fine carving! Lovely!
redstone no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 03:26 PM   #145
JohnnyMass
Whatever
 
JohnnyMass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Porto
Posts: 46,077
Likes (Received): 1493

Awesome! Looks so much better with the corner turret.
__________________
Edit my Signature
JohnnyMass no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 03:31 PM   #146
El_Greco
Épater la Bourgeoisie
 
El_Greco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London/Taipei
Posts: 19,307
Likes (Received): 8164

It is a shame they did not re-create the reliefs on the tower in the courtyard, it looks a bit awkward now.
__________________
My Travels : Barcelona|Edinburgh|Glasgow|London|Madrid|New York|Paris|Taipei|Vilnius
El_Greco no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 11:38 PM   #147
z0nnebril
Registered User
 
z0nnebril's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Delft
Posts: 891
Likes (Received): 552

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMass View Post
Better something than nothing!

But I agree with you, I would love to see some historic building reconstructed in Portugal but, as for so many other countries in Europe, it will never happen. We have an annoying policy of "if it's gone then it's gone forever, belongs to the past"...
Same over here! Sometimes something is being reconstructed, but then it's a very small reconstruction...
z0nnebril no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 11:43 PM   #148
JohnnyMass
Whatever
 
JohnnyMass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Porto
Posts: 46,077
Likes (Received): 1493

And that's not the worst of it, most of the times when we "restore" some old building the architects who do the project "modernise" it to leave their mark! It's outrageous!
__________________
Edit my Signature
JohnnyMass no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:19 PM   #149
*****
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,769
Likes (Received): 382

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Ph View Post
Nice. When and why was it destroyed, and when was it rebuilt ?


The fort has collapsed because of the time. uninhabited for several centuries and its reconstruction (based on historical sources) was approached because of tourism last year


OMG that is huge
***** no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:19 PM   #150
TomTack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 545
Likes (Received): 121

The Stadsfeestzaal in Antwerp, Belgium is a large hall originally built at the beginning of the 20th century as a permanent site for official festivities. Disaster struck in December 2000 when a firedestroyed the hall, leaving only an iron skeleton.Since the building was protected as a historic monument in 1983 developers were fortunately not allowed to tear down the building's skeleton. Instead it was decided to reconstruct the building following the original 1906 plans and adapt it for use as an upscale shopping center.

























__________________

Highcliff, entazis liked this post

Last edited by TomTack; August 23rd, 2010 at 11:26 PM.
TomTack no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:23 PM   #151
JohnnyMass
Whatever
 
JohnnyMass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Porto
Posts: 46,077
Likes (Received): 1493

Wow!
__________________
Edit my Signature

Highcliff liked this post
JohnnyMass no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2010, 02:19 AM   #152
*****
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,769
Likes (Received): 382

***** no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2010, 02:50 AM   #153
J-Ph
Registered User
 
J-Ph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 254
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
It is a shame they did not re-create the reliefs on the tower in the courtyard, it looks a bit awkward now.
I agree the tower rebuilt in the 50’s looks a bit awkward and stiff ; maybe the reason is the way it was rebuilt, and not only a problem of missing reliefs.
After the war, the owner of the building (it was a bank at that time) intended to recreate the reliefs of the tower at its own cost. There were pictures and precise drawings of them (but I don’t think they were cast, unlike the preserved reliefs of the gallery).

Anyway, the national heritage administration (don’t know if it’s the right world), opposed it, considering the tower first wasn’t carved (if I remember well, the original tower was carved a few decades after being built), and arguing that the result would be a deceitful mix of true and fake sculptures. So the tower remained as it is now.
J-Ph no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2010, 12:41 PM   #154
redstone
Lurker
 
redstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Singapore
Posts: 14,056
Likes (Received): 52

The Stadsfeestzaal looks awesome! What was its original purpose
redstone no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2010, 01:15 PM   #155
El_Greco
Épater la Bourgeoisie
 
El_Greco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London/Taipei
Posts: 19,307
Likes (Received): 8164

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Ph View Post
I agree the tower rebuilt in the 50’s looks a bit awkward and stiff ; maybe the reason is the way it was rebuilt, and not only a problem of missing reliefs.
After the war, the owner of the building (it was a bank at that time) intended to recreate the reliefs of the tower at its own cost. There were pictures and precise drawings of them (but I don’t think they were cast, unlike the preserved reliefs of the gallery).

Anyway, the national heritage administration (don’t know if it’s the right world), opposed it, considering the tower first wasn’t carved (if I remember well, the original tower was carved a few decades after being built), and arguing that the result would be a deceitful mix of true and fake sculptures. So the tower remained as it is now.
Thats very strange indeed! Do you have link to the French Heritage site?
__________________
My Travels : Barcelona|Edinburgh|Glasgow|London|Madrid|New York|Paris|Taipei|Vilnius
El_Greco no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2010, 07:13 PM   #156
EvanG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Antwerp
Posts: 1,656
Likes (Received): 132

Quote:
Originally Posted by redstone View Post
The Stadsfeestzaal looks awesome! What was its original purpose
It was the ballroom of the city. They used it for a number of things: exibitions, bookfairs, parties and all kinds of official celebrations.
EvanG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 24th, 2010, 08:38 PM   #157
Dr.Mabuse
Proud Member of the DWF!
 
Dr.Mabuse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 897
Likes (Received): 548

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomTack View Post
Since the building was protected as a historic monument in 1983 developers were fortunately not allowed to tear down the building's skeleton. Instead it was decided to reconstruct the building following the original 1906 plans and adapt it for use as an upscale shopping center.
So and if it wouldn't had the historic monument status they possibly would had teared it down?
Dr.Mabuse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2010, 12:23 AM   #158
J-Ph
Registered User
 
J-Ph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 254
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Thats very strange indeed! Do you have link to the French Heritage site?
It is a concept of restoration which is not that uncommon: only consolidate and clean what is left, and not replace any old part of a building, especially if it contains sculptures, paintings... That point of view actually leaves no room for “historical reconstruction”.
You may have a look at this sites, But I doubt very much you will find any information on this , as the proposal of the bank supposedly happened in the early 60’s :
http://www.haute-normandie.culture.gouv.fr/
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/inventai/patrimoine/

I owe this information to a book in French :
http://www.boutique.pointdevues.com/...theroulde.html
Actually, there is a tiny relic of the tower reliefs (which represented pastoral scenes) on a little part of the tower that didn’t collapse. It helps to imagine the whole effect.
A drawing of one relief of the tower :

(source : http://www.gutenberg.org/files/24519...-h/24519-h.htm)
A more detailed view of the turret :
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
J-Ph no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2010, 12:37 AM   #159
El_Greco
Épater la Bourgeoisie
 
El_Greco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London/Taipei
Posts: 19,307
Likes (Received): 8164

No, I was talking more along the lines of English Heritage ; it would be interesting to see a list of protected buildings in France.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/
__________________
My Travels : Barcelona|Edinburgh|Glasgow|London|Madrid|New York|Paris|Taipei|Vilnius
El_Greco no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2010, 02:45 AM   #160
J-Ph
Registered User
 
J-Ph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 254
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
No, I was talking more along the lines of English Heritage ; it would be interesting to see a list of protected buildings in France.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/
You may try this, but only big state-owned historic buildings are listed (about 100 buildings) :
http://www.monuments-nationaux.fr/fr

According to wikipedia, about 43 000 buildings are protected in France. The protection of historical buildings falls in within the competence of the state, but is organized on a regional level, under the supervision of the “DRAC” - (Direction régionale des affaires culturelles - regional direction for cultural matters).
The list of the DRAC websites is here :
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/regions/index.html
Each site supposedly lists the protected buildings of its region (I haven’t checked all the websites). It’s not as user-friendly as the English heritage or nationaltrust websites, and don’t expect an English version.
For example, this is the liste for the Cher département :
http://www.draccentre.culture.gouv.f...ion%20Cher.pdf

Alternatively, a list by department may be found here :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d...C3%A9partement
J-Ph no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
reconstructions, rekonstruktionen, restoration, stipson

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu