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View Poll Results: What would you rate it from what you know?
Worst in the world 2 4.17%
Worst in Europe 3 6.25%
Not the worst but at the bottom in Europe 9 18.75%
Just average similar to many countries 13 27.08%
One of the best in Europe 12 25.00%
One of the best in Europe, but would be THE BEST if it had proper HSR 6 12.50%
The best in Europe 1 2.08%
The best in the world ever! 2 4.17%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 2nd, 2009, 03:46 PM   #41
poshbakerloo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
We'll since the Swiss network is completely electrified, you don't see to many diesel trains in Switzerland. Only some freight locomotives are not electric, but that is just to prevent changing locomotives at some industrial lines that can't have overhead wires.

That brings me to another excellent point of the Swiss rail network, it's for the largest part run on hydroelectricity. Making it one of, if not the cleanest railway networks in the world, it doesn't hurt the clean alpine air.
The main point that I was making is, that the diesels in the UK are not dirty old trains like in most countries, but nice clean refined and fast trains...
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 07:05 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
The main point that I was making is, that the diesels in the UK are not dirty old trains like in most countries, but nice clean refined and fast trains...
And like I said it's not a point. Most diesel trains looks old and dirty because they run on small regional lines with a very small amount of pax. It's then not economical to renew the trains and everything else on the line (rails, stations...) as often as you will do it on a first class line (thinking a national or regional mainline - an IC relation). You are in fact mistaking the power mode (Diesel) with the type of service (IC).

And this is just the result of UK choosing not to electrify their mainlines.



There is many exemple of fast and clean diesel trian all over the world.

Denmark:
- IC3
- IC4

International:
- Coradia
- Desiro

Japan:
- KiHa 281 Limited Express (IC)
- 2000 Series Limited Express (IC)
- KiHa 110 Regional

France:
- Turbotrain Not a diesel but anyway.
- AGC

Germany:
- An oldy
- ICE TD

And then the "crappy trains"...

Japan:
- KiHa 20
- KiHa 40

United Kingdom
- Class 101

Then there is many more but I'm bored...
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 08:37 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
You still don't convince me that these are better, because I still see more excellent points in the Swiss network
Neither am I convinced that Swiss railways were the best in the world. They're simply not good enough on too many important criteria.
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Old October 2nd, 2009, 11:23 PM   #44
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Quote:
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United Kingdom
- Class 101

Then there is many more but I'm bored...
The Class 101 hasn't been in service for several years now...

I guess the 'worst' diesel train the UK has is the Class 153
They came in service in 1987 as then 155 but have since been split into single cars...

Top speed is only 75mph but they don't run on high speed routes anyway...

But even then they are not that bad...


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Old October 3rd, 2009, 03:46 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
Doncaster-Ipswich ??? every 30mins peak times. every 60mins off peak. (involves a train change tho in London)

Doncaster-Gloucester ??? every 30mins peak times. every 60mins off peak. (involves a train change tho in Birmingham)

Thats pretty good for such a random route...

Transpennine Express runs trains every 15mins on a lot of routes (yes, even the hilly, tight curve routes)




off-the-record: yes ... I know that ... that's precisely why I chose those particular random cities ... but most people don't seem to even bother checking their facts.

Most of the "still surviving" british network has better and more frequent services than anywhere else on earth even in the small rund down routes to nowhere.
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 03:51 AM   #46
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Quote:
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The fast diesel train is clearly not an argument here. It's isntead the result of choosing not to electrify the mainlines. Anybody could have such trains. I'm wondering if Denmark doesn't have fast diesel train since they also have decided not to take on the electrification process. To electrify a track is costly but electric trains are much more efficient than diesel run trains and in the long run it makes more sense to have overhead on heavy used mainlines than not.

Anyway, the english railroad system is facing or going to face capacity problem in the long run and HST might be the only option here. It would be good if it was build at the wider continental gauge, the english gauge being a bit tight. The good thing is, England is quite densely populated so railroad is allways a sensitive investment.

Where as to know if it's Europe's or World's best railroad system... this is conversation that will never end so I will try not to participate.
As a matter of fact just the other day I was researching something about some old Cravens bogies and I happened to find out that the "old" bogies I was looking for were basically the same ones that most of the british MkI coaches have on them ... what we considered usable for speeds of up to 90km/h you use for speeds of 140/160 km/h ... go figure.

The same happens with electrifications and track infraestructure ... we here have a "lighter" version of the same 25Kv 50Hz trackage that the french use on their LGV's ... we have a speed limit of 140km/h (pushed to 160km/h on a couple of sections) and they run the same matterials at 280/320 km/h.


By the way ... british diesel EMU's run at 160/200km/h while the danish run at 140/180 km/h.
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 04:08 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
As a matter of fact just the other day I was researching something about some old Cravens bogies and I happened to find out that the "old" bogies I was looking for were basically the same ones that most of the british MkI coaches have on them ... what we considered usable for speeds of up to 90km/h you use for speeds of 140/160 km/h ... go figure.

The same happens with electrifications and track infraestructure ... we here have a "lighter" version of the same 25Kv 50Hz trackage that the french use on their LGV's ... we have a speed limit of 140km/h (pushed to 160km/h on a couple of sections) and they run the same matterials at 280/320 km/h.
I guess it happens in a lot of places, but nothing seemed to come bad out of it. The MK1 coaches didn't run at their top speed much anyway as back then the tracks in a lot of places didnt take it. 90Mph was like the highest...
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 11:20 PM   #48
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Well some are just having a fight between 2 country's, I just want to point out another suggestion:

The netherlands!

This is not because I'am from the netherlands, but because of me having travelled a lot.

-The main advantage of the dutch railway network is it's amazing high freqeuncy's..
Basic frequency's are at least 2 trains per hour, with usually 2 local trains and 2 intercity's on mainlines, and between large urban area's 6+ trains per hour per direction is not rare.

-The next main advantage is it's huge coverage of railway line's in the netherlands, there is barely any city with more than 25.000 inhabitants that doesnt have a railway connection.

-Although this is one of the most heard complains in the netherlands, the trains generally run on time, I believe that some 90% of the trains run on time (with a delay of just 5 minutes being counted as delayed) and if you count trains on time within 5 minutes I believe it is something 97% of the trains being on time. I think only switserland and Japan can beat or equal this

Disadvantages are at the other hand:
-somewhat low speeds
-somewhat expensive tickets, but not as expensive as the UK for example

the low speeds on the other hand is not such a problem, station density is high, and as there are no "real" intercity services, fast train accelaration is more of a must than high speed, as the time gained by travelling 200 instead of 140on short distances is almost minimal

I'am interested what you think...
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Old October 4th, 2009, 04:56 PM   #49
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Swiss and Dutch networks are similar...
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Old October 4th, 2009, 08:22 PM   #50
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Forgive me for fantacising, but I'll regard a system like this as good.

Coverage - all cities and towns, with cities enjoying a good urban rail network

Speeds - 125mph(200km/h) on mainlines and 100mph(160km/h) on minor lines; fast entry and exit to and from stations, grade separated junctions preventing bottle-necks

Capacity - separation of fast and slow lines where necessary (4/6-track lines)

Frequency - Clock-face timetable, decent turn-up-and-go on urban/suburban lines.

Convenience - stations located in city and town centres as well as park-and-ride type ones.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 02:20 AM   #51
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I so agree
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Old October 5th, 2009, 04:02 AM   #52
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Worst in the world. Definitely. At least among industrialized nations.
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Old October 5th, 2009, 10:52 PM   #53
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Worst in the world. Definitely. At least among industrialized nations.
You talking about the US passenger rail "network" here?
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Old October 6th, 2009, 12:00 AM   #54
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You talking about the US passenger rail "network" here?
I was just thinking that. England can't have the worst. Its not the worst anyway by miles...
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Old October 6th, 2009, 01:37 AM   #55
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You English bashing yourselves for worst rail network?

Have no fear, an American is here.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 05:54 AM   #56
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You English bashing yourselves for worst rail network?

Have no fear, an American is here.
lmao
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