Today's Royal Navy

[andysimo123]

Originally Posted by AdmiralAnthony

With all our cutbacks what does our ravaged fleet look like now?
Am i right in thinking we now have left currently:

2 carriers
1 LPH
2 LPD's
4 LSD's
1 x Argus
6 destroyers (5 x 42'S, 1 x 45)
17 frigates
4 patrol ships
1 ocean survey ship
2 coastal survey ships
14 mine sweepers
1 repair ship

4 SSBN
8 SSN

tankers/supply ships? How many are left?

That's a pretty piss poor fleet in all honesty :-(

Most European navys are piss poor. Infact nearly all are. For example the Israeli navy consist of gun boats and afew large patrol ships. Other navies such as the Spanish, French and Italian navys still aren't as big. The Indian Navy, a country with 1 billion people has less Destroyers and Frigates than the Royal Navy. I can think of only countries like the USA and China who have massive navies.
You can add HMS Dauntless a Type 45.

[gothicform]

Originally Posted by andysimo123

Most European navys are piss poor. Infact nearly all are. For example the Israeli navy consist of gun boats and afew large patrol ships. Other navies such as the Spanish, French and Italian navys still aren't as big. The Indian Navy, a country with 1 billion people has less Destroyers and Frigates than the Royal Navy. I can think of only countries like the USA and China who have massive navies.
You can add HMS Dauntless a Type 45.

most european countries have bigger armies than we do and are not islands. we NEED a navy.

[ill tonkso]

They are building a new link road into Portsmouth Naval Base direct from the Moterway to get HGV Traffic out of the City Centre Fantastic news, has needed to be done for years.

[Manchester Planner]

Originally Posted by AdmiralAnthony

With all our cutbacks what does our ravaged fleet look like now?
Am i right in thinking we now have left currently:

2 carriers
1 LPH
2 LPD's
4 LSD's
1 x Argus
6 destroyers (5 x 42'S, 1 x 45)
17 frigates
4 patrol ships
1 ocean survey ship
2 coastal survey ships
14 mine sweepers
1 repair ship

4 SSBN
8 SSN

Accurate list of RN ships & subs on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...yal_Navy_ships

tankers/supply ships? How many are left?

Again, have a look on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_F...y#Active_ships

That's a pretty piss poor fleet in all honesty :-(

Still the best in Europe and second or third best in the world!!

[andysimo123]

Originally Posted by gothicform

most european countries have bigger armies than we do and are not islands. we NEED a navy.

Standard active forces.......
British Army - 114,000
French Army - 112,000
Italian Army - 104,000
German Army - 91,000
Spanish Army - 89,000
Polish Army - 65,000

....hmmm

[gothicform]

very true actually... they have all scaled down their armies massively compared to the other bits of their armed forces, all except the british.

[Manchester Planner]

Originally Posted by andysimo123

Standard active forces.......
British Army - 114,000
French Army - 112,000
Italian Army - 104,000
German Army - 91,000
Spanish Army - 89,000
Polish Army - 65,000

....hmmm

Could someone show a list of the largest (100%) professional armies in the world? Surely the British Army is one of the largest?

[madjackmcmad]

Our army is a silly size for 2010.

Either we're going to now specialise in drawn out counter insurgency over the next 20 years - in which case it needs to be bigger or we accept that as an Island in a strategically advantageous part of the world where we're very unlikely to be invaded and that now the cold war has ended we have no need for 25000 troops to be stationed in Germany, that it needs to be a lot smaller (80-90,000) but more mobile.


I actually think that, barring the need for a few more destroyers, frigates and corvettes for piracy patrols our navy is just about the right size for this day and age with our current commitments and is still one of the few 'true' blue water navies around at the moment.

We just need the new carriers to survive the SDR to remain a top notch navy.

[Manchester Planner]

I'm quite sure that the SDR will bring the troops out of Germany and re-role the army away from heavy stuff (tanks, et al.) and towards infantry & specialist, counter-insurgency/expeditionary duties. The 1st Division will be massively altered. Not sure about overall troop numbers though: it would be difficult to reduce the numbers too much with the current over-stretch. Perhaps a longer-term reduction in numbers, for the post-Afghanistan era.

If Fox has his way, the SDR should pave the way for a larger surface fleet (frigates, corvettes, OPVs) in the longer run. With the aircraft carriers built, the fleet can be built around them. And once their construction is out of the way, the budget & shipyards will be freed to construct a few larger vessels (replacements for Ocean, Albion and Bulwark for instance) as well as frigates in the 2020s.

RFA vessels to be built abroad though?

Frankly it's the RAF which is going to be buggered!

[madjackmcmad]

Only problem with the withdrawal from Germany is it will cost us more in the short term because thanks to short sighted selling off of facilities we have nowhere to house them!

[Manchester Planner]

Yup, annoying but there you go: it needs to be done. It will save loads in the long-term and hopefully the SDR will be bold enough to move this forward.

[andysimo123]

Originally Posted by Manchester Planner

Could someone show a list of the largest (100%) professional armies in the world? Surely the British Army is one of the largest?

There is a list on wikipedia but that's armed forces including reserve, navy and airforces. I got those numbers by searching out each european army. Was surprised at many of the figures. Would have through Germany and Poland would have bigger armies considering the past. Although once you head towards Asia their armies are massive. In Europe we have one of the biggest armies and we have the largest navy.

[Manchester Planner]

Some of the Asian armed forces are unbelievably huge. East Asia is like Europe 100 years ago. Pakistan, India, China, N Korea, S Korea, Japan, Russia, the US forces in E Asia... it's all ready to go...

Saying that, the combined forces of Europe (EU/NATO countries of Europe) are impressive.

[andysimo123]

Also considering that we've building 7 new bigger subs, 4 more bigger destroyers and 2 massive aircraft carries in terms of total tonnage will the navy size increase?

[Manchester Planner]

Quite possibly - T45s are larger than the T42s, Astutes are larger than the S and T classes, the QE-class carriers are 130,000 tonnes versus the 66,000 tonnes of the 3 current carriers, the River-class OPVs replaced smaller vessels (and are essentially corvettes), and also the new C1/C2 frigates will be larger than the T22/23 frigates.

Will be interesting to see whether the new SSBNs will be larger than the Vanguards and also what will replace Ocean, Albion & Bulwark in the 2020s - I'm still hopeful for 2 or 3 light carriers (commando/helicopter carriers) with amphib capabilities (like the Australian Canberra-class) which would be near the 30,000 tonne mark.

The Royal Navy has, since the mid-1990s, been transforming itself into a navy of fewer, but larger vessels, and I would imagine this will continue until we have a 100% blue-water, post-Cold War navy. We're nearly there: just need the QE-class carriers and T22/23 frigate replacements. Oh and, finally, new vessels for the RFA!

[ill tonkso]

One thing people need to remember as well is the new ships may be bigger but, due to better technology, the crews are much smaller. This is somewhat beneficial to running costs and whilst the number of matlo's may be dropping, the force projection and power does not drop as much with it. If you get what I mean?

[Manchester Planner]

Greater efficiencies... Gideon likes the sound of that!


Hmm... maybe you can have that aircraft carrier after all... then again, maybe not...

[madjackmcmad]

Originally Posted by Manchester Planner

Navy? What's this navy thing you speak of?

[gothicform]

Originally Posted by Manchester Planner

i remember that navy thing... we did it punting at oxford. jolly good stuff too!

[TallBox]

Originally Posted by andysimo123

Most European navys are piss poor. Infact nearly all are. For example the Israeli navy consist of gun boats and afew large patrol ships. Other navies such as the Spanish, French and Italian navys still aren't as big. The Indian Navy, a country with 1 billion people has less Destroyers and Frigates than the Royal Navy. I can think of only countries like the USA and China who have massive navies.
You can add HMS Dauntless a Type 45.

Yes but that's an unfair comparison. Only the French and US navies from the ones you listed have a similar number of overseas territorities, dependencies, and defence agreements as the UK does.

Not to mention that the UK survives by importing 99% of its trade by volume over the seas and has political committments/obligations around the world.

And the UK is of course comparatively richer than India.