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Old July 23rd, 2014, 08:20 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by SirAce View Post
Well, visitors considered Rome one of the most dirty and noisy places in the world. Jammed with traffic, shit everywere, thieves and pickpockets, graffiti on every wall. Visitors of the 1st cent AD
It seems not so much really changed. Rome continues to produce interesting architecture and continues to be totally messed up!
Not so long ago, I read the Satyricon, by Petronius. It doesnīt happen in Ancient Rome, but in Ancient Naples, but you know... you can tell just how much Naples was already very much Naples back then. And look at my location, I know a thing or two about cities changing in shape but not as much in spirit.

So I donīt doubt that Rome was dirty, noisy, crowded... and not all that different in spirit than it is now.
After all, back then it already had a population of more than 1 million, although later it would decrease dramatically, yes. But big cities are like that.
And weīre talking Italy 2000 years ago. It was a very long ago, but it was Italy anyway, for good and for bad.

The main difference is that back then, despite the noise and the traffic and the dirt (itīs Rome, after all), there was will, there was ambition, there was discipline, and there was determination (and there was Pasquino).

Where is all that now? Only Pasquino is still around, thank God...

Because yes, Rome was chaotic even then, but nevertheless, the sewers of Rome are a true masterpiece of architecture.

And then, just look at Via Appia (Antica). Between the Circus Maximus and the intersection with Via Ardeatina there was one wide bend in the Porta San Sebastiano area, and then one bloody straight line, just one, ONE, from Via Ardeatina till Albano Laziale (thatīs more than 10 km of straight alignment, and not one single bend). How great an infrastructure was that?

But now Via Appia twists and turns, like every other modern road.

Something went wrong.

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Clodio is the minimum acceptable to consider C line fully operational. Stopping it before will make collapse both B and A lines.
In an ideal world, yes. But you know, the section Colosseo-Ottaviano will be a tour de force, need I say more about its difficulty?
Btw, I guess that San Pietro station will be under Via della Conciliazione? Why not calling it "Vaticano"?

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Nope, we have Marino as mayor. In the last political race destroyed Alemanno.
The tram should be this one below. And nope, no works started yet. Actually neither the project is definitive one. So probably the Roma-Giardinetti will stand on for a long while.
Well, anyway itīs almost like a tramway now, only with a slightly worse interaction with road traffic.

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Because the government department responsible for the environment and historical buildings (Soprintendenza) asked to change the project of San Giovanni station due to protection of some ruins found where there was supposed to be built the scissor point. So two more years of works and big loss of money.
Nothing that couldnīt be expected, when itīs Rome and itīs underground. Patience.

Iīve been Goggling Rome these last minutes. Iīd completely forgotten that the line between San Giovanni and Colosseo runs through Amba Aradam and crosses the walls at Porta Metronia (quite appropriate, btw ). I thought it went under Via San Giovanni.

But then, from Porta Metronia, it runs towards... the Colosseum and... the Forum... does it really run under it? Gosh.

Reaching Venezia will be a mess.

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Probably Pasquino had talk about that. But I found on his official website and it seems that no one reported it...
http://www.pasquinate.it/
Might be Alzheimer, who knows. Heīs getting old, poor him.
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Old July 23rd, 2014, 09:44 PM   #242
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Btw, I guess that San Pietro station will be under Via della Conciliazione?
Not really; The San Pietro station (when it will be built... God only knows when) will be under piazza Pia. Close to via della Conciliazione but not really under it. I think they chose to name it San Pietro because the name of a station usually refers to streets, squares or "physical" reference points close to it, while "Vaticano" leads more to think about the Vatican State instead (also, when I go there I usually say "I'm going to San Pietro", not "I'm going to the Vatican"). But that's just my guess.

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Old July 23rd, 2014, 11:41 PM   #243
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Not so long ago, I read the Satyricon, by Petronius. It doesnīt happen in Ancient Rome, but in Ancient Naples, but you know... you can tell just how much Naples was already very much Naples back then. And look at my location, I know a thing or two about cities changing in shape but not as much in spirit.

So I donīt doubt that Rome was dirty, noisy, crowded... and not all that different in spirit than it is now.
After all, back then it already had a population of more than 1 million, although later it would decrease dramatically, yes. But big cities are like that.
And weīre talking Italy 2000 years ago. It was a very long ago, but it was Italy anyway, for good and for bad.

The main difference is that back then, despite the noise and the traffic and the dirt (itīs Rome, after all), there was will, there was ambition, there was discipline, and there was determination (and there was Pasquino).

Where is all that now? Only Pasquino is still around, thank God...

Because yes, Rome was chaotic even then, but nevertheless, the sewers of Rome are a true masterpiece of architecture.

And then, just look at Via Appia (Antica). Between the Circus Maximus and the intersection with Via Ardeatina there was one wide bend in the Porta San Sebastiano area, and then one bloody straight line, just one, ONE, from Via Ardeatina till Albano Laziale (thatīs more than 10 km of straight alignment, and not one single bend). How great an infrastructure was that?

But now Via Appia twists and turns, like every other modern road.

Something went wrong.
What an awesome analysis of the city. Yes, I do agree with you. With all the words you wrote.

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Well, anyway itīs almost like a tramway now, only with a slightly worse interaction with road traffic.
Well, it's something more than a tramway. It's faster, even if the trains are smaller and way older then our Cityway trams (Alstom-Fiat Ferroviaria). No other vehicle runs on those tracks (no asphalt or cement, but railway-like cobblestones).

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Iīve been Goggling Rome these last minutes. Iīd completely forgotten that the line between San Giovanni and Colosseo runs through Amba Aradam and crosses the walls at Porta Metronia (quite appropriate, btw ). I thought it went under Via San Giovanni.

But then, from Porta Metronia, it runs towards... the Colosseum and... the Forum... does it really run under it? Gosh.

Reaching Venezia will be a mess.
Yes, it runs exactly under the Roman Forum. But we're speaking of 35/40 meters below road level, and archeological layer stops at 15 meters below street. So nothing will be touched and no harm will be made to that area.

The very problem though will be the stations: to build them you must dig straight in the archeological area and in the archeological layer. They have to find places were there are no remains (and it will be as hard as impossible) or places where there isn't much stuff (i.e. Fori Imperiali station will be built where once upon a time there was a small hill, called Velia. No roman stuff has been found there, since they were all above that hill that Nerone and Mussolini - may years later - destroyed).
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Old July 24th, 2014, 08:08 PM   #244
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What an awesome analysis of the city. Yes, I do agree with you. With all the words you wrote.
Sorry, I just had a bit of a "patrioticus" moment. Must have been the ice cream.

But you know, what applies to Rome also applies not just to the whole of Italy, but to Spain, France, Portugal and Greece too. And you know how things are like, nowadays.

And then you compare with the old times, and... well, weīre much much better in many respects, now. But in some others... well, we really should hang our heads in shame, because weīre not worthy.

Ok, end of the off-topic. Sorry again.

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Well, it's something more than a tramway. It's faster, even if the trains are smaller and way older then our Cityway trams (Alstom-Fiat Ferroviaria). No other vehicle runs on those tracks (no asphalt or cement, but railway-like cobblestones).
Yes of course, but right now, with line C being more and more advanced (and hopefully Pigneto railway station going on, fingers crossed, touch wood), I guess that transforming it into a full tramway will be a better solution for the quarters it goes through, as it will allow that other tramway lines will be connected to it, instead of being an isolated line.

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Yes, it runs exactly under the Roman Forum. But we're speaking of 35/40 meters below road level, and archeological layer stops at 15 meters below street. So nothing will be touched and no harm will be made to that area.
Donīt know. I hope everything goes ok, but something tells me to do this:

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The very problem though will be the stations: to build them you must dig straight in the archeological area and in the archeological layer. They have to find places were there are no remains (and it will be as hard as impossible) or places where there isn't much stuff [...]
Alright, letīs go under the Forum, but then you reach Venezia. Then Chiesa Nuova. Then you go under the river and... you know what. Iīm really intrigued about the solutions they will adopt, and the budget it will need.

It will be a tour de force, really. The most difficult extension.

On the other hand, itīs clear that Ottaviano-Colosseo will also be the most used section once it opens, just by the number of tourists using it.

Anything connecting the Vatican, the area around Piazza Navona, the Campidoglio (and the lower part of Via del Corso), the Forum, the Colosseum, and San Giovanni at once, like line C will, will be crowded with tourists since day one.

Then you add the Romans, and hereīs the problem.

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Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
[...] (i.e. Fori Imperiali station will be built where once upon a time there was a small hill, called Velia. No roman stuff has been found there, since they were all above that hill that Nerone and Mussolini - may years later - destroyed).
Really? And what did Uncle Silvio B. think about that? He really must have felt jealous of Nerone and Benito...

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Originally Posted by aenigma View Post
Not really; The San Pietro station (when it will be built... God only knows when) will be under piazza Pia. Close to via della Conciliazione but not really under it.
But the remains will be there too, and at Piazza Pia you also have the problem of the river.

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Originally Posted by aenigma View Post
I think they chose to name it San Pietro because the name of a station usually refers to streets, squares or "physical" reference points close to it, while "Vaticano" leads more to think about the Vatican State instead (also, when I go there I usually say "I'm going to San Pietro", not "I'm going to the Vatican").
In this case, do you think that "San Pietro" is a better name than, say, "Borgo-Castel SantīAngelo", or "Conciliazione-Castel SantīAngelo"?
Because after all, Risorgimento station will be even closer to the Vatican...
On the other hand, calling it "Vaticano", would make things crystal clear to everybody, but itīs got to be the closest station to the Vatican.
If itīs got to be under Piazza Pia, maybe itīs better to name it differently, and use the name "Vaticano" for Risorgimento station.
You just canīt connect incorrectly one of the main economic focuses of the city, even if today it is a different country.

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But that's just my guess.
Thanks. Iīve learn something with your answer though.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 05:50 PM   #245
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B1 metro line branch

Some new pics of the new garden realized on top of Conca d'Oro station, B1 line.

http://www.romametropolitane.it/arti...245&CodArt=248









Here are also some pics from Jonio station building site. Unfortunately not so much more than the previous report.







This last pic describes the external parking. Almost finished. The station can theoretically be opened by the end of this year (I hope).
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Old August 10th, 2014, 06:09 PM   #246
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C metro line branch

Here are some pics of August report from Romametropolitane on the building sites of C line. Few pics but nice ones.

http://www.romametropolitane.it/arti...245&CodArt=246

Fori Imperiali/Colosseo





Amba Aradam (pictures of Dasf Sturm) http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...ostcount=14599

[IMG]http://i61.************/t81ykg.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i61.************/2dcbgcm.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i62.************/s2sn6q.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i61.************/izb0jn.jpg[/IMG]


San Giovanni. Here is possible to see some extracted sections of the TBMs



Lodi



[IMG]http://i61.************/1zcz4ep.jpg[/IMG] (pic from HadesSaint http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...ostcount=14563 )

Pigneto (for what I know, they are working much faster on this one those days...)



Malatesta



[IMG]http://i61.************/14982h4.jpg[/IMG] Picture from a Stemos post http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...ostcount=14550

Teano



Gardenie



Mirti

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Old August 10th, 2014, 06:20 PM   #247
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Here are some pics of August report from Romametropolitane on the building sites of C line. Few pics but nice ones.

http://www.romametropolitane.it/arti...245&CodArt=246

Fori Imperiali/Colosseo



OUCH! It hurts. I hope the Colosseum is being monitored and all during the works, not so long ago some stones fell from the faįade.
Btw, the scaffoldings on the Colosseum are related to the works of line C, or is it just common maintenance?

Every time I imagine Piazza Venezia with the works, the only thing that comes to mind is "OUCH!".

But it will be for the greater good.
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Old August 10th, 2014, 06:24 PM   #248
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OUCH! It hurts. I hope the Colosseum is being monitored and all during the works, not so long ago some stones fell from the faįade.

Every time I imagine Piazza Venezia with the works, the only thing that comes to mind is "OUCH!".

But it will be for the greater good.
As you can see, Colosseum is under Restoration. It means that they are monitoring a lot

And yeah, definitely is for greater good!
Try to figure out all the area totally cleansed by cars!!!
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Old August 10th, 2014, 06:27 PM   #249
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As you can see, Colosseum is under Restoration. It means that they are monitoring a lot
So this restoration has nothing to do with line C?

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And yeah, definitely is for greater good!
Try to figure out all the area totally cleansed by cars!!!
Will they pedestrianize Via dei Fori Imperiali?
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Old August 11th, 2014, 12:01 AM   #250
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The integral pedestrianization is planned
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Old August 11th, 2014, 12:39 AM   #251
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Line C is crossing directly under Colloseum?

It was my last holiday with my parents when I went to Rome.(still very recognisable the area around Colloseum)

Good to know in Rome pedestrians get extra room, especially 'round old Rome.

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Old August 11th, 2014, 02:57 AM   #252
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Here are some pics of August report from Romametropolitane on the building sites of C line. Few pics but nice ones.
Wow. I'm usually not very impressed by Italian/Greek/Southern European subway architecture because I think it often doesn't look modern or nice enough, but these station interiors look really nice.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 04:09 AM   #253
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Then wait for the next extension of the Barcelona metro (by 2016, they say).

The new line C in Rome looks cool, too.

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The integral pedestrianization is planned
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Old August 11th, 2014, 05:41 AM   #254
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Then wait for the next extension of the Barcelona metro (by 2016, they say).

The new line C in Rome looks cool, too.

Here are some pics for the future Fori Imperiali/Colosseo station



image hosted on flickr












Actually the other stations are a bit more down to earth, but not bad in their clean design.
I can't wait to see the images of the projects of Amba Aradam and Venezia stations...
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Old August 11th, 2014, 05:43 AM   #255
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Line C is crossing directly under Colloseum?

It was my last holiday with my parents when I went to Rome.(still very recognisable the area around Colloseum)

Good to know in Rome pedestrians get extra room, especially 'round old Rome.
Actually the station will be under the Imperial Fora. The tube will pass aside the Colosseo, though 40 meters underground (to avoid both archaeologic and hydro-geologic issues).

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Old August 11th, 2014, 05:56 PM   #256
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Probably the second busiest station of Rome in the near future, counting Romans and tourists... and also pickpockets' heaven, if there ever was one.
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Old August 11th, 2014, 07:28 PM   #257
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Actually the station will be under the Imperial Fora. The tube will pass aside the Colosseo, though 40 meters underground
Oke, thats reasonably deep.
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(to avoid both archaeologic and hydro-geologic issues).
I understand.(living in Amsterdam..)

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That's self-explainatory..

How many people do they expect at that stop?

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Probably the second busiest station of Rome in the near future, counting Romans and tourists... and also pickpockets' heaven, if there ever was one.
My father almost got his wallet stolen on A corner there, nevertheless, very nice location.

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Old August 12th, 2014, 12:04 AM   #258
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How many people do they expect at that stop?
Loads of Romans, plus loads of tourists.
Probably the busiest metro station in the city after Termini, until line C reaches the Vatican.

Line C is bound to be the busiest, since it will touch the very core of the city, from San Giovanni to the Vatican, plus many densely populated outer quarters.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 12:48 AM   #259
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Loads of Romans, plus loads of tourists.
Probably the busiest metro station in the city after Termini, until line C reaches the Vatican.

Line C is bound to be the busiest, since it will touch the very core of the city, from San Giovanni to the Vatican, plus many densely populated outer quarters.
No numbers yet?
too bad..
But as you mentioned, hotspots, hotspots.. So A ridership of approx. 1.5million A day is quite feasible?

Extra Question, is there any subwayline to the airport?
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Old August 12th, 2014, 01:30 AM   #260
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Extra Question, is there any subwayline to the airport?
No subway line to Fiumicino. There's a regional railways service: FL1 line. It runs about every 15 mins from Monday to Saturday and 30 mins on Sundays and non-working days. It costs 8 € and it brings to Trastevere, Ostiense, Tuscolana and Tiburtina stations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FR1_(La...ional_railways)
In this page the line is called "FR" that stand for "ferrovia regionale" (regional railway), the old name of the regional services that now is changed in "FL", "ferrovia locale" (local train).

There's also a non-stop train between Fiumicino Airport and Termini station every 30 mins everyday. It is called "Leonardo Express" and it costs 15 €.

There's no railway service to Ciampino Airport, just regional busses lines from Anagnina subway station and Ciampino railway station. You can also take a private bus like Terravision from Termini.
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