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Old October 19th, 2009, 06:10 PM   #61
Filandon
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Originally Posted by Ribarca View Post
I don't understand the negative connotation either. I never said desert as some are implying. I clearly used the word semi.

With regards to the other issue. Compared to other metropolises Madrid is in the middle of nowhere. The result of a non natural growth. Again there is nothing wrong with that.
Oh man, you seem to have no stop... First of all, nobody said a desert is something bad!!!!! just note that and do not put words in otherīs mouth! the problem is that you just lied again and again and, as well prooved, is not true that Madrid is a semi desert!!!!

Concerning your other marvellous sentence in which you said Madrid is in the middle of nowhere:

Well, is in the middle of the Iberian Peninsula... if that is nowhere for you , is its major communication hub by all means (plane, train, highway) except water (Valencia 3 hours away) the major economic centre, the first urban tourist destination and where the king resides (not since yesterday), also the government is placed there and has the heritage of the kingdom of Castille(Through history Iberianīs most powerful). Just in a circle of 100 km you got 6 world heritage places (probably worldīs biggest concentration) This Unesco Heritage sites were not created in the 60īs they go back to the Roman times throw the Middle ages into Modern times. If having the major Iberian city here is the result of something not natural then be happy in your world but donīt try to change reality...

Last edited by Filandon; October 19th, 2009 at 06:16 PM.
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Old October 19th, 2009, 06:28 PM   #62
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Maybe Riberca was thinking more of the region more to the southeast, like someone already suggested, i.e. Castilla-La Mancha? That part of Central Spain, made famous by Don Quijote de la Mancha, is known for being very dry to the point that the soil is lifted by the air.

Here is an example around Cuenca province, in Castilla-La Mancha region


Riberca may have exaggerated but as you distance yourself from Madrid you do reach lands that have an arid look in comparison to the rest of Europe where you find more lush (full) vegetation or at least a lot of grassland. When you look at Spain on Maps Google zoomed out at the country-size or half country-size level, you do see huge yellow patches in many parts of the interior. When you zoom into these areas, you may find shrurbs (shrubland), small trees with gaps exposing soil or rock. This is so different from forestland or grasslands (natural or grazelands) where the vegetation covers every square meter of the land, as you would find in more lush regions like the Basque Country. In other areas, you may find kms and kms of what appears like cropland that has been freshly harvested, which still has a different look to what you would find in many other parts of Europe where you have very green squares (cropland not yet harvested) adjacent to harvested tracks (with the exposed soil look). In the areas I've seen from Spain, it looks like all the tracks of cropland were harvested at the same time, which may very well be the case, and would result in exposed soil.

In any case, he was incorrect to call it semi-desert because that involves something much more dry. But Spain, including Central Spain, does have many areas exposing soil (dry, soil that has hardened from lack of precipitation) or exposed rock, like this:

This may not be anywhere in Central Spain, but rather in Andalucía...it's just to illustrate what I mean by exposed soil or rock


in Cuenca province, karst-like formation, which I don't think is necessarily due to lack of rain but the karst process. It still gives an impression of dryness.


So maybe its that image of Spain that Riberca was thinking about?
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Old October 19th, 2009, 06:34 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filandon View Post
Oh man, you seem to have no stop... First of all, nobody said a desert is something bad!!!!! just note that and do not put words in otherīs mouth! the problem is that you just lied again and again and, as well prooved, is not true that Madrid is a semi desert!!!!

Concerning your other marvellous sentence in which you said Madrid is in the middle of nowhere:

Well, is in the middle of the Iberian Peninsula... if that is nowhere for you , is its major communication hub by all means (plane, train, highway) except water (Valencia 3 hours away) the major economic centre, the first urban tourist destination and where the king resides (not since yesterday), also the government is placed there and has the heritage of the kingdom of Castille(Through history Iberianīs most powerful). Just in a circle of 100 km you got 6 world heritage places (probably worldīs biggest concentration) This Unesco Heritage sites were not created in the 60īs they go back to the Roman times throw the Middle ages into Modern times. If having the major Iberian city here is the result of something not natural then be happy in your world but donīt try to change reality...
I think you have taken out of context what he meant by "in the middle of nowhere". But I would agree he would should not have used that expression because it is easy to misinterpret. I think Riberca just needs to think twice about what he says. But personally, I did not understood him the same way you understood him.
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Old October 19th, 2009, 06:41 PM   #64
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Obviously Riberca is not a polite forumer. We could speak also of the big dry areas that Catalonia has (every Spanish region has them, except the Cantabrian North).

But people in general is more polite than him, more mature and more inteligent to speak like that.

The good thing of that is that Madrid is getting more and more promotion thanks to him.

By the way, why are you sending pictures of Cuenca? Thatīs not Madrid.

Why donīt you send the same pictures of Tarragona, for example? The dry areas there are very similar. And yes, Madrid has its dry areas in the south, like Catalonia in the southwest, and what?

Last edited by JAVICUENCA; October 19th, 2009 at 06:54 PM.
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Old October 19th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #65
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How to ruin a great thread in 2 pages.
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Old October 19th, 2009, 08:20 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVICUENCA View Post
Obviously Riberca is not a polite forumer. We could speak also of the big dry areas that Catalonia has (every Spanish region has them, except the Cantabrian North).

But people in general is more polite than him, more mature and more inteligent to speak like that.

The good thing of that is that Madrid is getting more and more promotion thanks to him.

By the way, why are you sending pictures of Cuenca? Thatīs not Madrid.

Why donīt you send the same pictures of Tarragona, for example? The dry areas there are very similar. And yes, Madrid has its dry areas in the south, like Catalonia in the southwest, and what?
Like I said just above, maybe he is confusing with parts of Castilla-La Mancha which is also Central Spain, just southeast of Madrid. That is why I randomly showed Cuenca. It was not with any particular intention to speak bad of Cuenca. Some have been trying to show that Madrid is not dry or dry-looking so it occurred to me that maybe he is thinking more of the region southeast of Madrid. If I did not mention Tarragona that is because it is very far from Madrid, while Cuenca is not, and I could not imagine anyone confusing something so far away from Madrid. Cuenca is not Madrid, but much less is Tarragona. You, however, are welcome to contribute and show any dry-looking part of Tarragona or Cataluņa if you feel he may be confusing Madrid with that or if you feel people should know that Cataluņa can also be dry. I can't take care of all of dry-looking Spain.

Like you said, some forumers are not polite but until now I have been very polite in my comments and I've always tried not to make a comment without giving an example or more thorough explanation.
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Old October 19th, 2009, 09:44 PM   #67
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Hey guys! actually you both agree, and everything seems quite clear now. Edubejar, your explanations were very good, thank you! By the way, Cuenca is an amazing place not far from Madrid with incredible karstic formations similar to what you can find in the Balkans. Actually many films were done there (Conan for example). The dryer parts of Madrid (southeast corner) are a bit different because they are not from calcareous rocks they are plaster formations (Yesos)

But yes, thatīs not the metro area of Madrid so is better to leave it for another time. Now is time for Madrid and its suburbs, surely not a semi-desert nor in the middle of nowhere . Great thread to discuss about and to enjoy pictures, I donīt think it was ruined, somehow was the opportunity for many people to know much more about this great city and enjoy some facts and pictures
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Old October 19th, 2009, 11:12 PM   #68
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Who said that the thread is ruined?

What a silly thing. With the authorizasion of Manuel, letīs complement his incredible incredible pictures and forget about silly things.
























MOre gardens:





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Last edited by madridhere; October 20th, 2009 at 12:19 AM.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 12:44 PM   #69
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Wowwww.

I posted some pictures of you before, Madridhere. Thanks for the work.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 02:58 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVICUENCA View Post
Obviously Riberca is not a polite forumer.
It's Ribarca XaviCuenca. All the insults must come to an end. If you don't like a normal discussion stay in your green oasis in the center of the universe. You should learn that in a discussion you can disagree with each other. I'm from Holland by the way. A place almost as green as Madrid.
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Last edited by Ribarca; October 20th, 2009 at 03:13 PM.
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Old October 21st, 2009, 09:28 PM   #71
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Another picture of the new Puerta del Sol.
Much more room for pedestrians. Taken from Munimadrid, the official webpage of the town hall.
I hope Manuel doesnīt mind me sending this picture here.I would love more pictures by him anyway.


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La libertad, Sancho, es uno de los más preciosos dones que a los hombres dieron los cielos; con ella no pueden igualarse los tesoros que encierran la tierra y el mar: por la libertad, así como por la honra, se puede y debe aventurar la vida.
Freedom, Sancho, is one of the most precious gifts that Heaven gave to men; with it the treasures of the earth and the sea canīt be compared; for freedom, and for honour, one can and one should give his life(Cervantes in "Don Quixote")

Il faut ętre absolument moderne (Rimbaud)
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 04:25 PM   #72
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Simply beautiful Puerta del Sol.
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 04:56 PM   #73
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Ok guys, i donīt know how can you deny whta is something obvious, there may be some green parks and forrest aroud Madrid, but the truth is that a big chunck of the land surrounding Madrid city is just semidesertic and wastedland.

There is nothing pejorative about it, itīs just a fact.
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 05:58 PM   #74
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Beware of the trolls!
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Visit my city, Madrid http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=621026

Aspects of Madrid that tourists seldom see. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=701822

or visit Green Madrid http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=676798
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 06:25 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorways View Post
Ok guys, i donīt know how can you deny whta is something obvious, there may be some green parks and forrest aroud Madrid, but the truth is that a big chunck of the land surrounding Madrid city is just semidesertic and wastedland.

There is nothing pejorative about it, itīs just a fact.

You can say all the nonsense that you want but you will not change the reality.

This is not artificial, it is NATURAL, and is MADRID





















http://www.cosasdemadrid.es/embalses-de-madrid/

Last edited by _^^_; October 22nd, 2009 at 06:51 PM.
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 07:51 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorways View Post
Ok guys, i donīt know how can you deny whta is something obvious, there may be some green parks and forrest aroud Madrid, but the truth is that a big chunck of the land surrounding Madrid city is just semidesertic and wastedland.

There is nothing pejorative about it, itīs just a fact.
I used to think more or less the same but as I did some research I don't find anywhere an indication that the Madrid region is semi-desertic or semi-arid. In fact, I'm not finding that any of Spain qualifies as semi-arid except for parts of Southeastern Spain. I'm not an expert in climate or vegetation but as I'm reading on semi-arid climates, there needs to be a considerable lack of rain. You would not be able to have the trees and woodlands that Madrid has if it was semi-arid unless it was artificially irrigated and I can't see such huge sections of trees being irrigated artificially.

Maybe an expert would know but what I think Madrid has is more of a soil type that does not encourage grasses from growing which is another thing. Grass gets its water from the surface while trees get water from deeper below. So I think trees and some shrubs grow well around Madrid but not grass, unless its croplands (e.g. wheat) irrigated partly by artificial means. Even then, I don't see lush croplands anywhere around Madrid. Another phenomenon I've noticed about Madrid is that so much soil is exposed (the soil has a white/yellow/orange color that makes us think of a desert, rather than dark, blackish soil that makes us think of wet soil) due to rapid land development. So much construction sites reveal exposed soil since the land is being cleared and graded.

Here is a good video that I think shows what we may be confusing with a semi-arid place but I think it's just the soil type that does not encourage grass to grow plus so much construction. And like I said, the soil color might make us think of a arid or semi-arid place:

By the way, the landing looks awful!
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 10:54 PM   #77
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It is true that Madrid and most part of Spain look yellow instead of green during the summer months, but that doesnīt mean that the land is wasted. If you watch that lands yo can see that all of them are growed and in that lands trees grow perfectly. It is also true that is not beautiful to see big yellow extensions, but on the other hand we have a good weather. That is what happens in all the Mediterranean an central part of Spain. The noth side look as green as every area of Europe. And it is also true that, against what it seems, Spain is one of the countries with the highest number of forests.
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Old October 22nd, 2009, 11:14 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edubejar View Post
I used to think more or less the same but as I did some research I don't find anywhere an indication that the Madrid region is semi-desertic or semi-arid. In fact, I'm not finding that any of Spain qualifies as semi-arid except for parts of Southeastern Spain. I'm not an expert in climate or vegetation but as I'm reading on semi-arid climates, there needs to be a considerable lack of rain. You would not be able to have the trees and woodlands that Madrid has if it was semi-arid unless it was artificially irrigated and I can't see such huge sections of trees being irrigated artificially.

Maybe an expert would know but what I think Madrid has is more of a soil type that does not encourage grasses from growing which is another thing. Grass gets its water from the surface while trees get water from deeper below. So I think trees and some shrubs grow well around Madrid but not grass, unless its croplands (e.g. wheat) irrigated partly by artificial means. Even then, I don't see lush croplands anywhere around Madrid. Another phenomenon I've noticed about Madrid is that so much soil is exposed (the soil has a white/yellow/orange color that makes us think of a desert, rather than dark, blackish soil that makes us think of wet soil) due to rapid land development. So much construction sites reveal exposed soil since the land is being cleared and graded.

Here is a good video that I think shows what we may be confusing with a semi-arid place but I think it's just the soil type that does not encourage grass to grow plus so much construction. And like I said, the soil color might make us think of a arid or semi-arid place:

By the way, the landing looks awful!

So you can see in the video are fields. Are brown in autumn and spring are green.

Ok.If you add that video, I'd add this two videos. It's the same but in spring not in autumn.



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Old October 22nd, 2009, 11:21 PM   #79
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The easily form is to see it on google maps.

The word "A" is La Puerta del Sol, the center of Madrid

[IMG]http://i33.************/a5aue8.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i37.************/30hr1nd.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 12:10 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edubejar View Post
I used to think more or less the same but as I did some research I don't find anywhere an indication that the Madrid region is semi-desertic or semi-arid. In fact, I'm not finding that any of Spain qualifies as semi-arid except for parts of Southeastern Spain. I'm not an expert in climate or vegetation but as I'm reading on semi-arid climates, there needs to be a considerable lack of rain. You would not be able to have the trees and woodlands that Madrid has if it was semi-arid unless it was artificially irrigated and I can't see such huge sections of trees being irrigated artificially.

Maybe an expert would know but what I think Madrid has is more of a soil type that does not encourage grasses from growing which is another thing. Grass gets its water from the surface while trees get water from deeper below. So I think trees and some shrubs grow well around Madrid but not grass, unless its croplands (e.g. wheat) irrigated partly by artificial means. Even then, I don't see lush croplands anywhere around Madrid. Another phenomenon I've noticed about Madrid is that so much soil is exposed (the soil has a white/yellow/orange color that makes us think of a desert, rather than dark, blackish soil that makes us think of wet soil) due to rapid land development. So much construction sites reveal exposed soil since the land is being cleared and graded.
You have explained very well, specially in the south east from the border of the province with cuenca to the south limits of the city of Madrid the land is mainly gypsum type, not the most adequate for grass even in spring.

The long hot months of summer with almost no rains and very dry winds doesn't help to keep the grass green unless it's irrigated. I wouldn't say that madrid is in "hostile" environment because of these facts.

If you get into madrid by train coming from sevilla or barcelona you are using the same tracks from the southeast in the poorest land of Madrid, there aren't important towns in the area as historically the terrain couldn't sustain big populations, it's not strange that madrid landfill is located there.
Despite i would say it's almos 'bad lands', some areas have original rests of oaks and reforested areas with pines.

The south of Madrid are old farming lands and the old towns grew to big citys from 90.000 to 200.000 habitants.

As you get close to the mountains, the higher elevation, more rains and fresher temperatures in summer help to give a greener aspect to the terrain, also more forests of pines and oaks, including El Pardo, that belongs to Madrid city and it's a hunting reserve of the spanish kings along the centuries, now it's one the best preserved mediterranean forests.
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