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Old October 23rd, 2009, 01:11 PM   #81
Motorways
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegodbs View Post
Beware of the trolls!


No need to get offensive.

Madrid is a great city, with many different great things, a great mass transit system, great street life, wonderful parks and much more amazing things, but that doesnīt mean that a big part of the land around Madrid city itself is just wasteland, free of trees and bushes and almost desertic.

You just have to drive out of the city taken the A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, R2, R3, R4 or the R5.

You can also drive the M40 from the A1 to the A4 or take al the roads leading to Barajas.

If you still donīt think that Madrid has a lot of areas that are almost desertic, get an AVE train from Atocha to the south or to Barcelona, and all natural spaces that you will see around Madrid are free of trees as far as your eyes can see.

If you are still not convinced try landing in Madrid Barajas and have a look to what you have to see.


Ok, maybe you donīt like the word desert for whatever reasons, so to put it in other words: Madrid really has a lot of its land totally deforested, the sooner you realize about it the best you can manage to repair the damage done or just to improve the situation.

And donīt misunderstood me, i really like Madrid a lot, i know there a lot of green areas too and many wondeful forest even within the city limits, not to mention its parks, but thatīs no reason to deny that this green reallity goes in parallel with another brown reallity that is also there.

best regards.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 02:45 PM   #82
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Repeating the same negative things like a machine can make consider someone as a troll.

In general the south is dry and the north is green. OK. And what?

OK. Letīs figure you guys arenīt trolls. Then why donīt you enumerate with the same detail the parks, woods and green areas of this wonderful city?

By the way, Madrid is the second city of the world after Tokio with more number of trees.

Are they made of plastic for you?

What is important is not the roads from where you can see the trees (many of this areas canīt be reached from big motorways) but the really enormous green surface of Madrid.

So if you arenīt a troll, now youīre invited to enumerate with the same detail the green areas, woods and parks of Madrid.

I insist in the veeery big green areas of Madrid seein you only insist in the dry ones. If you only insist in the dry ones is just because youīre a troll, obviously.

Apart from that, is it really the only interesting thing in Madrid or you want that we speak only of that in this thread (another reason to consider you a probable troll).

Why donīt you speak about other interesting issues of Madrid if you say you arenīt a troll? I inveite you to this too.

Last edited by JAVICUENCA; October 23rd, 2009 at 02:58 PM.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 02:52 PM   #83
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ok, you win, Madrid is the greener city ever seen on earth, and all the semidesertic areas iīve talked about before are just in my mind, i dreamt on then.

By the way, if iīm trolling for expresing my mind and being repetive, you guys are as repetive as me saying how green Madrid is, so trolls aswell, right?

Before ending this, do you have any reliable data to prove that Madrid is the second city just after Tokyo in number of trees? Is not that i donīt trust you, but seems hard to believe.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 05:20 PM   #84
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Please donīt try to be right by saying things that we didnīt say.
We admit that the lands of Madrid donīt look green in summer, thatīs true. But that doesnīt mean that some areas of Madrid are desertic. I repeat that all of them are growed lands, I know it very well. And I also repeat that trees grow perfectly. In landed areas, there are no trees, in Madrid and in the greenest part of the world.

So, donīt repeat that statement, donīt try to be right by saying that we say that Madrid is the greenest city. Itīs true that during summer it doesnīt look green, but doesnīt mean Madrid to be semidesertic.

I donīt know whatīs your problem with that. Madrid is not semidesertic, everything you plant here, it will grow: wheat, a tree and everything you want.

Two photos near Barajas Airport:

Summer:

image hosted on flickr


Spring:

image hosted on flickr


And I also thing that it is time to stop this stupid argument and invite people who is reading this tread to come and visit Madrid and see if Madrid is semidesertic or not.

Last edited by Alvr23; October 23rd, 2009 at 05:34 PM.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 05:49 PM   #85
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Heīs a troll, donīt you realize?

Iīve said before that the south is dry and the north is green. But he keeps on saying that Iīve said that Madrid is the greenest city of the world.

Iīm bored of this matter. Some pictures to change the subject, although our trolls will come after the pictures and repeat that Madrid is .....dry. (And their minds arenīt dry?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by madridhere View Post
Bueno, aquí pongo fotos que creo que pueden ser un resumen del estado actual de la ciudad en cuanto a proyectos terminados, edificios de siempre restaurados, infraestructuras, paseos, vida de la calle, etc, etc. Empiezo por estas fotos. Por supuesto que todo el mundo está invitado para poner todas las que quiera y enriquecerlo.

Reina Sofía de Jean Nouvel:



Foto de m3c:



Gran Vía:







Cibeles:





Palacio Real:



Caixafórum:











BOPBAA :



The back of the building:













Santa Ana:























Tonymadrid:


















Moneo:



Carlinhos Brown at Paseo de la Castellana:







Foto de EL Cid:





Foto de ALberto Lunas:



Parque del Retiro:







Espero que os gusten. Gracias.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 06:28 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVICUENCA View Post
Heīs a troll, donīt you realize?

Iīve said before that the south is dry and the north is green. But he keeps on saying that Iīve said that Madrid is the greenest city of the world.

Iīm bored of this matter. Some pictures to change the subject, although our trolls will come after the pictures and repeat that Madrid is .....dry. (And their minds arenīt dry?)
look mate, i donīt know you and you donīt know me. So stop calling me troll.

obviously i was been sarcastic when i said that Madrid was the greenest city on earth, that doesnīt change the fact that you have been calling me troll since my first post on this thread, and that just show what an uneducated person you are.


if you want to belive that Madrid is the city with more trees right after Tokio as it has been said in this same thread,ok, then great for you. I hardly can believe it.

Madrid is green in the north and dry in south? perfect,i did no said the opposite. I said that Madrid has loads and loads of fields that could be classified as arid land, wasteland or semi desertic, and the truth is that even if they get some green grass during the winter time, there no trees or forest on then, there is nothing, not even anything planted.

And you can deny that as much times as you wanna, you can call me troll as much times as it please you, that wonīt change the fact that a vast chunk of the lands surrounding Madrid city proper are just less full of green life than the Nevada Desert.

A pic of the Nevada Desert to ilustratre:



This land up there itīs often named desertic, or arid at least. So i see no reason for not using the same adjetives for some of the lands arround Madrid that are even drier.

And the real thing is that you still take this as an insult to Madridīs beauty, an attack to your own person or an offense to the whole nation, as if there werenīt dozens of amazing cities on arid or dry locations.

I can reckon a thousand of good things about Madrid, i also reckon that it has a lot of green parks and forest very close to the city. I have to say that Madrid is a city that really worths to be visited, that has stunning buildings, incredible corners, charming places, and a vibrant cultural life and night clubbing, but it seems that since i have seen the no so green parts of Madrid iīm here just to put down the city. You better relax and get over it, but i wonīt accept you to tell me that i havenīt seen what indeed i saw with my very own eyes.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 06:53 PM   #87
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This building, "Reina Sofía de Jean Nouvel", the design of this building is really great its a museum?
Quote:
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 07:06 PM   #88
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Yes, Christos, thatīs a museum of modern art. Itīs where Picassoīs Guernica is kept. There are also paintings by Dalí, Miró, Gris, Kandinsky, Matisse and many others.

Thyssen also is a good museum of art (the white building) and it has classical and modern art. Itīs a private colection.

And the third one is of course Prado. Theyīre near each other. At Paseo del Prado there are other cultural centers like Caixafórum (the building with the green wall) or Casa Encendida or Instituto Cervantes (Spanish language) or Círculo de Bellas Artes.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 07:58 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by activi View Post
You have explained very well, specially in the south east from the border of the province with cuenca to the south limits of the city of Madrid the land is mainly gypsum type, not the most adequate for grass even in spring.

The long hot months of summer with almost no rains and very dry winds doesn't help to keep the grass green unless it's irrigated. I wouldn't say that madrid is in "hostile" environment because of these facts.

If you get into madrid by train coming from sevilla or barcelona you are using the same tracks from the southeast in the poorest land of Madrid, there aren't important towns in the area as historically the terrain couldn't sustain big populations, it's not strange that madrid landfill is located there.
Despite i would say it's almos 'bad lands', some areas have original rests of oaks and reforested areas with pines.

The south of Madrid are old farming lands and the old towns grew to big citys from 90.000 to 200.000 habitants.

As you get close to the mountains, the higher elevation, more rains and fresher temperatures in summer help to give a greener aspect to the terrain, also more forests of pines and oaks, including El Pardo, that belongs to Madrid city and it's a hunting reserve of the spanish kings along the centuries, now it's one the best preserved mediterranean forests.
Thank you. Like I said, I'm not an expert in soils, climate, nor Madrid. However, I have visited the city numerous times and as a cartographer and GIS specialist who was done a lot of mapping and interpretation of satellite and aerial imagery, I easily become interested on the natural characteristics and human-built features of land. My job also forces me to research things and get people's advice and expertise, which I sometimes have to evaluate for myself. This has taught me to discuss (hint to some people here) over topics rather than just argue (hint once again to some people here), unless I am confident I really know what I'm talking about.

It's good to see people like you and Alvr23 who seem to like to consider the whole picture and say there is both good and bad, rather than just being a troll but also rather than just being a SSC member who calls others troll for simply stating their opinions and observations that go against their views or their city. I think troll-callers are as bad as trolls sometimes. I do admit some SSC drama can be fun sometimes, though It ads some spice to the more boring fact-seeking members like me.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 08:20 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorways View Post
look mate, i donīt know you and you donīt know me. So stop calling me troll.

obviously i was been sarcastic when i said that Madrid was the greenest city on earth, that doesnīt change the fact that you have been calling me troll since my first post on this thread, and that just show what an uneducated person you are.


if you want to belive that Madrid is the city with more trees right after Tokio as it has been said in this same thread,ok, then great for you. I hardly can believe it.

Madrid is green in the north and dry in south? perfect,i did no said the opposite. I said that Madrid has loads and loads of fields that could be classified as arid land, wasteland or semi desertic, and the truth is that even if they get some green grass during the winter time, there no trees or forest on then, there is nothing, not even anything planted.

And you can deny that as much times as you wanna, you can call me troll as much times as it please you, that wonīt change the fact that a vast chunk of the lands surrounding Madrid city proper are just less full of green life than the Nevada Desert.

A pic of the Nevada Desert to ilustratre:



This land up there itīs often named desertic, or arid at least. So i see no reason for not using the same adjetives for some of the lands arround Madrid that are even drier.

And the real thing is that you still take this as an insult to Madridīs beauty, an attack to your own person or an offense to the whole nation, as if there werenīt dozens of amazing cities on arid or dry locations.

I can reckon a thousand of good things about Madrid, i also reckon that it has a lot of green parks and forest very close to the city. I have to say that Madrid is a city that really worths to be visited, that has stunning buildings, incredible corners, charming places, and a vibrant cultural life and night clubbing, but it seems that since i have seen the no so green parts of Madrid iīm here just to put down the city. You better relax and get over it, but i wonīt accept you to tell me that i havenīt seen what indeed i saw with my very own eyes.
By the way, I agree with you and I don't think you are a troll just for expressing your observations. Like you say, just because you find some parts of Madrid to look like a desert does not mean you don't like the place or qualify it as great. Like I said earlier, I too always wondered why driving out of Madrid or taking a train out always made me think of being almost in a desert. But I admit it was never towards the northwest but always towards the much vegetation-lacking southeast and east or around Barajas. I also admit I've mainly been to Madrid during the winter season so I'm not sure if that could be the reason why so much of the cropland was not green. But I could swear I've seen green cropland when flying or driving out of other European cities.

I will repeat again though that what I do find a lot is that Madrid region does not have a lot of grass (e.g. pastures for animal grazing or just open fields of grass). What I do see is a lot of trees and shrubs to the west but not the grass. And so I think it's partly the fault of the soil and rock type. Also, many areas around cities have been deforested but for some reason those tracts of land are always covered with grass, even often in the winter. The grass just looks a bit dull but there is still grass. Like many trees that are not evergreens will loose their leaves but the grass remains.
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Old October 23rd, 2009, 08:33 PM   #91
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It's interesting how one comment I made in response to why Madrid according to me has so much space to expand and why it has less lowrise outside of the city center compared to other cities has been taken out of context and has led to a war of words. Again it was not meant in a negative way. And despite what others claim I have been to Madrid several times, flew over Madrid a dozens times and have this summer traveled by AVE from Sevilla via Madrid to Barcelona. After being attacked I made my arguments clear. If others disagree fine but there is no need to act with having such a chip on the shoulder. Maybe the reaction of some has more to do with my signature than anything else.

Finally, this is the urban showcase and all the posting of images by others than the thread opener goes against the rules.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 12:45 AM   #92
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Stop it, please, watch photos of Madrid, north, south, est, west, everypart you want. But, please, donīt lie. And please difference between lands and forests. If you planted trees in those aparently desertic lands they would grow perfectly. Do I have to repeat the same again? And thatīs not true that some areas of Madrid are drier than Nevada desert, even the same, itīs completely false. I repeat again: MADRID IS NOT SEMIDESERTIC. Can you see the photos I posted earlier? Please watch them.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 12:52 AM   #93
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Well stupid arguments aside, those pictures over the past few pages are fantastic. I loved Madrid when I visited in the spring (when the countryside around it was green ) and I can't wait to return and see places I didn't visit.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 01:12 AM   #94
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Thank you, MIke, I remember perfectly the magnificent thread you made of this city.


As to the musums, Christos, this is the front part of Reina Sofía. And NOuvelīs building is the back.

Manuelīs picture is simply amazing.

9. Glass crowning Reina Sofia
image hosted on flickr


By the way, I love the modern museum of classical art in Athens. Itīs in the perfect balance betwen the modern and the old. I loved the glasses where you coul see the things there.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 01:18 AM   #95
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Some photos to proove what I said.
Southern Madrid:





Northern Madrid (mountains):





Monte del Pardo, in the city of Madrid:



Lands of Madrid:

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


Photos have been taken from Wikipedia and Flickr
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Old October 24th, 2009, 01:46 AM   #96
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Friend of mine just got back to Melbourne from a teachers convention held in Seville . He landed at Madrid barajas to catch the AVE to Seville . Because he had a couple of spare hours he had a bit of a walk from Atocha up the paseo del prado and up to the newly renovated Puerta del sol .

He called me on the mobile phone to express his dis-belief at how grand and beautiful the Spanish capital is . He decided to cut short one day in Seville so that he could explore Madrid for a whole day and night . When i asked him if i exaggerated when i thought Madrid to be Europes greatest city , his reply was . '' Madrid certainly has a very good case in believing itself as Europes greatest city. Incredible architecture , restaurants , monuments, and nightlife beyond believe'' . He also visited the awesome Bernabeu stadium .

Unfortunately though . Many people that just pass thru Barajas airport can get the idea that it isn't in a green and priveledged location . So yes from the north east to the south there is quite a bit of arid land . This is quickly changing though as it is being more constructed with buildings and more and more trees being planted .

The north west and east of madrid is a totally different matter though . Full of magnificent forests and low rise houses .

Fact is Madrid these days has no challengers what so ever with in Spain . It is nowdays in a class of its own . Majority of multinational corporations are there . The money is there . And its population is exploding . Madrid is fast becoming one of the greatest cities on earth . On par these days with the big capitals of the world .
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Old October 24th, 2009, 01:48 AM   #97
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Sorry i meant the Northwest and west .
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Old October 24th, 2009, 02:01 AM   #98
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And some pictures, real ones taken by google streetview, not the kind of pictures taken to be a postcard where a landfill looks like a must see place.

The arid part of Madrid, southeast, M45 highway over high speed tracks, thats what you will see coming to Mdrid from Barcelona and Sevilla as they share the same tracks for several km.

In summer it looks really arid and awful, there aren't even farmland, are abandoned terrains. From november to may it turns green, but not too much



aerial



A3higway, heading to the most poor lands in Madrid, a mix of farmland, bvad land and reforested areas. It's not a desert as rainfall is over the amounts of rain that are taken in count to consider a desert or semi-desert.
Looks like taken in summer, yellow and brown coloured farmfields, only trees remain green. Grass is dry, notice that spain is not too far from sahara and in summer heat waves and even dust from sahara aren't uncommon.

Pictures by A3 near Arganda, Manzanares river, tiny but doesn't dries in summer(as many rivers do) meets Tajuņa river



aerial view,


a few km after, but looks like october or early november, poor soil but forested, doesn't look so arid, but it's just 10km and 20km after the pictures above

aerial


Now the opposite side of Madrid, exit by A6, much more forested, the terrain also changes, but still in summer only the trees are green.
This is a typical mediterranean forest, not large trees and not dense, there isn't enough water for that, but it's the climate!


aerial


We all tend to put the nicest pictures and views of our cities, doesn't your city have industrial areas with no trees? if it rains enough there grows grass and looks nicer, it's the same here, but less rains and no grass half of the year.
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Old October 24th, 2009, 01:46 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvr23 View Post

image hosted on flickr

I have always wondered, why don't you put trees on the edges of the fields? I think that the landscape would look generally better that way. Not that it is not great even without trees

I think that the government of Comunidad de Madrid should start an initiative in that direction, See that picture of northern Spain as an example:

image hosted on flickr


Obviously, it wouldn't so green around Madrid, nor you need so many forests because you will lose arable land but still, having some tree-packed areas and placing trees between the fields would be improvement according to me
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Old October 24th, 2009, 02:18 PM   #100
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I think that it would be a good thing to plant trees in some lands that now are not landed or in the borders. But the organization of lands is different here that in the north. There are big extensions of forests in the north of the Comunity and also in the south, but there are also big extensions with landed areas. In the north of Spain and Europe almost all the land is organized in that way you showed in the photo. And it's also important that Comunity of Madrid has planted 47.830 hectares of forests in the last ten years, what means ten million trees. Six million of them have been planted since 2006. But itīs true that i would like to see trees among the lands of the south.



I took that photo as an example. In the north of Spain and Europe all this area will be organized like in the photo you posted, while here in Madrid mountainous areas are covered with forest and most of plain areas are covered with fields.
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