Liberty Hall to be demolished

[JD47]

Its still not high enough.
This is ment to be here for another 50 years so
why not make it bigger.
An extra 8 storeys on that would be nice but I wonder
what An Taisc will say.

[JD47]

Originally Posted by odlum833

Dear An Tasice - Please fuck off. That is all.

Dear Odlum833 very well said. That is all

[thebig C]

I have to say I am a big conflicted about this one. Not because of the height aspect but rather, I feel Liberty Hall is amongst the best examples of "International style" architecture in the City. It often becomes symbolic of poor standrads and the destruction of historic Dublin simply because of its height, when in fact its the acres of bland redbrick pastiche office blocks which destroyed much of Dublin.

Liberty Hall is the first and best example of 1960s design. Much of what was built afterwards was pure rubbish. For example I would gladly see O'Connell Bridge House, Apollo House, Telephone House, Setanta Centre and most of all Hawkins House flatened! In comparison Liberty Hall displays at least some attention to style detail and an understanding of structure! If we were to follow the UKs example of listing more modern buildings I would support its listing.

As for the proposed replacement, I have to say I prefered the firts lower render. With the circular upper stories it was much more appealing. I do agree with JDs point, if they are aiming to build higher they should push it to 30 floors because argueable taller slender buildings have less adverse impact then lower squat constructions.

C

[Catmalojin]

Council urged to refuse permission for demolition of iconic Liberty Hall

FRANK McDONALD, Environment Editor

Wed, Feb 08, 2012

DUBLIN CITY Council has been strongly urged to refuse planning permission for the demolition of Liberty Hall by a group committed to preserving monuments of the Modern Movement and by the Irish Georgian Society.

Docomomo Ireland says Siptu’s plan to build a much taller tower on the site “would result in the irreplaceable loss of a heritage structure of national importance [which] has embedded itself in the collective consciousness of the city, even the nation”.

As the city’s first high-rise building, finished in 1964, it had “featured on innumerable picture postcards, has been used as graphic design’s singular logo for the city of Dublin in various contexts and was the subject of a recent documentary film”, it says.

“Along with these examples of the building’s popular appeal and fascination as a monicker and visual icon of Dublin ... the building has become the source and/or site of myriad cultural and academic projects, especially during the past decade.”

Docomomo’s submission takes issue with Siptu’s need for a much larger building, “roughly 1.5 times as wide and 1.5 times as tall as Liberty Hall”, noting that all of its staff would be accommodated in a three-storey podium alongside the tower. Thus, the height was “justified only by its speculative development value to Siptu and the recently conceived add-on “heritage element [of] this gargantuan tower” – a reference to the proposed four-storey museum and “sky deck” on top.

To back this up, it quotes from Siptu’s pamphlet on the project, “Building for the Future”, which says “the new building would contain additional office space, which would be available for sale or leasing, to generate revenue and offset costs”. Docomomo is severely critical of the architectural heritage assessment by conservation consultant David Slattery, saying it “fails to mention that Liberty Hall was commended, in a very strong field, for the RIAI [Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland] Gold Medal”.

Although Liberty Hall had suffered from neglect, as well as the covering of its windows with reflective silver film and the consolidation of mosaic on its edge beams with mastic, Docomomo argues that the building is structurally sound and can be refurbished.

The Irish Georgian Society, in its submission, endorses Docomomo’s contention that Liberty Hall is “an exceptional example of international modernism” and warns that its proposed replacement would have a “significant deleterious effect” on the environment.

“The proposed 93-metre height and considerable width of the new tower is, in the opinion of the society, inconsistent with the provisions of the [Dublin City] Development Plan and would have a dramatic negative impact on the skyline, historic vistas, structures and streetscapes.”

A submission by planning consultants Tom Phillips and Associates on behalf of Irish Life, which owns the adjoining Beresford Court building, supports the principle of redeveloping Liberty Hall, but says the proposed tower would have “significant long-term adverse impacts”. It seeks clarification on what alternative designs were considered as well as a detailed management plan, more information on the loss of light to Beresford Court and confirmation services would not be disrupted.

In a personal objection, An Taisce’s Ian Lumley says the latest planning application by Siptu “constitutes a waste of time and resources for all parties concerned” as it “does not address or resolve the justification for demolition rather than upgrade” of Liberty Hall.

© 2012 The Irish Times

...

[odlum833]

Is Frank setting off on another crusade?

[plank007]

I'd knock it down. it's ugly, outdated and the whole area needs tidying up.

[Seravia]

It was ugly when it was built, and it's still ugly now. The refusal to grant permission to demolish is bizarre. I am actually baffled.

[JD47]

It is ugly and depressing to look at. People in this city are weird.
They hate fancy new highrise buildings but yet they love old run down highrise buildings.
Its crazy. We need something new in this city.

[thebig C]

I would lean towards redevelopment. However, I don't think Liberty Hall is as bad as many other buildings of its era. I would like if it was preserved as an example of mid-20th Century international architecture. SIPTU, could then build a new 22+ storey building on one of the vacant sites in the docks. They would be free of the inevitable restrictions that will come from being so close to the Custom house, and, kick start construction in what should have been a highrise zone!

[JD47]

Originally Posted by thebig C

I would lean towards redevelopment. However, I don't think Liberty Hall is as bad as many other buildings of its era. I would like if it was preserved as an example of mid-20th Century international architecture. SIPTU, could then build a new 22+ storey building on one of the vacant sites in the docks. They would be free of the inevitable restrictions that will come from being so close to the Custom house, and, kick start construction in what should have been a highrise zone!

I bet people would still go mad at the height.

[thebig C]

Originally Posted by JD47

I bet people would still go mad at the height.

I bet they would too!! The Docklands are what really exposed the anti-highrise lobby. For years they could object to projects with the excuse that they were protecting historic buildings. In the docklands that criteria didn't exist and yet they still objected.....!!

[JD47]

Originally Posted by thebig C

I bet they would too!! The Docklands are what really exposed the anti-highrise lobby. For years they could object to projects with the excuse that they were protecting historic buildings. In the docklands that criteria didn't exist and yet they still objected.....!!

I think some of the people just want a fight and a protest.
People like us who are up for highrise should stage a protest against An Taisce and these idiots who object to highrise. You would probaly get some of the protesters who where against highrise in your protest because they just want to protest and moan.

[citybus]

Liberty Hall is a historically significant (and in parts a) classy building, too many people are blinkered by an ideological and sometimes irrational dislike of anything built in the 1960's- the whole concrete = always bad mentality. It's strange that this site is about skyscrapers and yet a lot of the people on it (including the moderators) ignore the fact that most of the skyscrapers in Britain & Ireland were already built 40 years ago.

Liberty Hall reminds me a bit of the TGWU building in Belfast, which is thankfully listed though it's future doesnt look rosy as it's unnoccupied.



Off Albert Bridge's Geograph.ie account
http://www.geograph.ie/profile/5835

[JD47]

Originally Posted by citybus

It's strange that this site is about skyscrapers and yet a lot of the people on it (including the moderators) ignore the fact that most of the skyscrapers in Britain & Ireland were already built 40 years ago.

What skyscrapers.

[citybus]

Towers at around ten, twenty or thirty storeys. Every big town in Britain has a 60's or 70's office block in this vein (often being of low quality), they also all have council blocks around this height. Outside of Belfast Ireland didn't get many buildings of this sort, though Liberty Hall & the Cork Council building are notable exceptions.

Most people on this site think very negatively of modernist architecture, whereas I would classify the likes of Liberty Hall as a Skyscraper, it just doesnt have all the big windows that people associate with the term nowadays. As Dublin has hardly any buildings of this vein I would consider it ripe for listing. You can argue that the architecture of the city centre is predominately 4 storey or whatever, but I don't see the harm of having a small number of them here and there- so keep the only one that is already there.

[JD47]

Originally Posted by citybus

Towers at around ten, twenty or thirty storeys. Every big town in Britain has a 60's or 70's office block in this vein (often being of low quality), they also all have council blocks around this height. Outside of Belfast Ireland didn't get many buildings of this sort, though Liberty Hall & the Cork Council building are notable exceptions.

Most people on this site think very negatively of modernist architecture, whereas I would classify the likes of Liberty Hall as a Skyscraper, it just doesnt have all the big windows that people associate with the term nowadays. As Dublin has hardly any buildings of this vein I would consider it ripe for listing. You can argue that the architecture of the city centre is predominately 4 storey or whatever, but I don't see the harm of having a small number of them here and there- so keep the only one that is already there.

Yes but thier are no skyscrapers in Dublin apart from this ugly one.
They plan on knocking it down and making it bigger.
Whats the problem with that.

[kreator1984]

I am a Pole living in Dublin since 2005 and I have to say that Dublin needs a high-rise buildings, as most European countries have them. Even the post-communist country like Poland has its own skyscrapers so Dublin deserves for them as certainly as possible.

Warsaw

[JD47]

Dublin should have a few highrises as we are a global city.
I cant think of any other global city in the world without a
highrise. Facebook or Google should build a massive tower
in the docks or something. I dont really like having a few
highrises in the docks though because it is very isolated looking
down there. The U2 Tower was ugly down there. I think the best
area's to build high is Hueston, Grand Canal Docks and Tara Street as
they are already built up a bit and a few buildings would look nice down there.
It does not look like we will get any soon though.

[Viking74]

Sadly to say , I don't think we will get any built in the near future either. If any do get built it will be nothing short of a miracle . Even in the good times, the tedious planning process and serial objectors ensured that most never even got off the drawing board. The DDDA's ridiculous height restrictions didn't help either only designating two particular buildings for high rise at two specific sites. And now I believe that a bar has been built into the foundations of one the projects (although I stand corrected) and the other is completely dead in the water. There can't be too many developers left outside NAMA either at the moment. Nice picture of the Warsaw skyline there. There's a nice cluster of high rises around the Palace of Science and Culture, as far as I remember. Very impressive!

[citybus]

Originally Posted by JD47

Yes but thier are no skyscrapers in Dublin apart from this ugly one.
They plan on knocking it down and making it bigger.
Whats the problem with that.

Whether it's ugly or not is subjective. Why not rennovate it (assuming it needs that) and build another skyscraper elsewhere. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.