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Old October 17th, 2009, 03:52 AM   #121
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Old October 17th, 2009, 05:56 AM   #122
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[QUOTE=mvictory;44731232]Are we talking about only large stadium sports (such as football) and only top flight competition?

Out of those three cities the main Professional domestic competitions in each.

Melbourne AFL (9 teams), NRL (1 team), A league (1 team), State cricket (Sheffield shield, 2020, 1 day) (1 team)

London Premier League (4 teams), County Cricket, Guiness Premiership (4 teams) Super League (1 team)

LA MLB (2 teams) MLS (2 teams)

Out of these Melbourne probably has the highest average attendance yet this would probably change if you included Other tiers of English football competition, and College football in LA.

In terms of Absolute capacity you have. Only including Major stadiums have a capacity over 15,000. I know some are no longer used but I just wanted to compare maximum capacity so I included all i could.

Melbourne. MCG 100,000, Docklands 55,000, Melbourne Rectangular stadium 31,500 (as of 2010), Princes Park 30,000?, Victoria park 27,000, Moorabbin 25,000, whitten 25,000, Olympic Park 18,000, Punt road, 15,000. total 326,500

You have missed a few in Melbourne

Rod Laver Arena (Australian Tennis Open) two arenas 22,000 Hisense Stadium 10,000 plus the Flemington Racecourse ( home of the Melbourne Cup race) 120,000 and the F1 race track at Albert Park 200,000 + Thunderdome car race track at Calder 80,000
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Old October 17th, 2009, 06:15 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phriggin' Ogre View Post
Yes, I understand. "ugh". I was talking about the clubs and level of attendance.
What about the clubs? You think they don't draw until the Champions League? They draw more in league play than they do against CL minnows from Norway or Bulgaria. In Germany alone, Dortmund and Schalke did not qualify for European competition and they draw tons. Newcastle is often 50K+ and they were ******* relegated. Your argument sucks.

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old October 17th, 2009, 06:20 AM   #124
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[QUOTE=auslankan;44736946]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvictory View Post
Are we talking about only large stadium sports (such as football) and only top flight competition?

Out of those three cities the main Professional domestic competitions in each.

Melbourne AFL (9 teams), NRL (1 team), A league (1 team), State cricket (Sheffield shield, 2020, 1 day) (1 team)

London Premier League (4 teams), County Cricket, Guiness Premiership (4 teams) Super League (1 team)

LA MLB (2 teams) MLS (2 teams)

Out of these Melbourne probably has the highest average attendance yet this would probably change if you included Other tiers of English football competition, and College football in LA.

In terms of Absolute capacity you have. Only including Major stadiums have a capacity over 15,000. I know some are no longer used but I just wanted to compare maximum capacity so I included all i could.

Melbourne. MCG 100,000, Docklands 55,000, Melbourne Rectangular stadium 31,500 (as of 2010), Princes Park 30,000?, Victoria park 27,000, Moorabbin 25,000, whitten 25,000, Olympic Park 18,000, Punt road, 15,000. total 326,500

You have missed a few in Melbourne

Rod Laver Arena (Australian Tennis Open) two arenas 22,000 Hisense Stadium 10,000 plus the Flemington Racecourse ( home of the Melbourne Cup race) 120,000 and the F1 race track at Albert Park 200,000 + Thunderdome car race track at Calder 80,000
yeah I know but I thought it would get a bit complicated if I started including reacecourses, Arenas, etc..
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Old October 17th, 2009, 10:15 AM   #125
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What about the clubs? You think they don't draw until the Champions League? They draw more in league play than they do against CL minnows from Norway or Bulgaria. In Germany alone, Dortmund and Schalke did not qualify for European competition and they draw tons. Newcastle is often 50K+ and they were ******* relegated. Your argument sucks.

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well I earlier I said that it was my mistake and I acknowledged the league's success... I'm just waiting for the other guys to do the same.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 12:28 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Phriggin' Ogre View Post
I said I was done, man. Please remember that I in no way or shape started this. I was just trying to defend the "lolz no one likes american sports outside the US" and "blah blah blah, you guys have 300 million people, you're impressive stats mean nothing!!" comments. Given that this isn't the first time you've done this, I hope its the last if I just concede. Becuase me defending against ignorant comments translates into me bashing European sports to you guys, which was not my intention. If you guys are so defensive, then so be it. I don't know about you, but I actually get tired of these useless and retarded conversations.

You've oversimplified the argument which is why other people got angry. I could sit here and claim other people are simply battling against a typical 'lolz America is No.1' argument.

The 'impressive stats' argument was over the selective use of the statistics. Either use total or average attendance, don't pick and choose which one suits you best. As it happens, average attendance is quite obviously the most fair. If you look at it like that, the most popular domestic leagues are: NFL, Indian Premier League (T20 cricket), Bundesliga, AFL, Premier League, MLB, Canadian Football League, La Liga, NPB, Serie A.

The four biggest soccer leagues in Europe are all in there. Don't forget this isn't even counting Champions League, FA Cup, Europa League etc.

You have to admit that's impressive (I'm not saying better, I'm just saying you can't dismiss it) due to the size of the population and spread of the teams.

No-one disagreed with your stats, we are just offering explanations as to why they are misleading. If you are an NFL fan living in New York how many options do you have to support a team? How many games can you go to?
Each time only plays six games a season at home, so that's a maximum of 12 games a year that a population of 19,000,000 can go and see.

In London, there are 13 clubs in the football league (and around 30 other clubs playing non-league). That means there are around 279 home games (not counting FA Cup, Champions League and the fact that it's much easier and therefore much more common for fans to go to away games) for a population of 12,000,000 to go and see. Personally I think it's impressive that we average what we do. Imagine if there were only two teams in London, and they both played at Wembley. If there were only ten home games a season I'm pretty sure they'd all be sell-outs.

My point? No-one is better than anyone else. One set of people aren't more likely to support their team. If Americans and Europeans were the other way round then I'm sure the stats would stay the same. Europeans aren't more into sports because we have more variety. American people aren't more dedicated to their teams because of the stats.

Bah.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 01:47 PM   #127
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Speaking in entire ignorance for this point:

Do NFL teams have any competition for fans going to watch lower standard professional American Football? For example in major cities?

In London alone there must be 15-20 professional football teams so that's a lot of competition.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 01:59 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by SSE View Post
You've oversimplified the argument which is why other people got angry. I could sit here and claim other people are simply battling against a typical 'lolz America is No.1' argument.

The 'impressive stats' argument was over the selective use of the statistics. Either use total or average attendance, don't pick and choose which one suits you best. As it happens, average attendance is quite obviously the most fair. If you look at it like that, the most popular domestic leagues are: NFL, Indian Premier League (T20 cricket), Bundesliga, AFL, Premier League, MLB, Canadian Football League, La Liga, NPB, Serie A.

The four biggest soccer leagues in Europe are all in there. Don't forget this isn't even counting Champions League, FA Cup, Europa League etc.

You have to admit that's impressive (I'm not saying better, I'm just saying you can't dismiss it) due to the size of the population and spread of the teams.

No-one disagreed with your stats, we are just offering explanations as to why they are misleading. If you are an NFL fan living in New York how many options do you have to support a team? How many games can you go to?
Each time only plays six games a season at home, so that's a maximum of 12 games a year that a population of 19,000,000 can go and see.

In London, there are 13 clubs in the football league (and around 30 other clubs playing non-league). That means there are around 279 home games (not counting FA Cup, Champions League and the fact that it's much easier and therefore much more common for fans to go to away games) for a population of 12,000,000 to go and see. Personally I think it's impressive that we average what we do. Imagine if there were only two teams in London, and they both played at Wembley. If there were only ten home games a season I'm pretty sure they'd all be sell-outs.

My point? No-one is better than anyone else. One set of people aren't more likely to support their team. If Americans and Europeans were the other way round then I'm sure the stats would stay the same. Europeans aren't more into sports because we have more variety. American people aren't more dedicated to their teams because of the stats.

Bah.
I never said that Americans support their sports more. Its pretty sad that most people here don't know what a league is.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 02:01 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phriggin' Ogre View Post
I never said that Americans support their sports more. Its pretty sad that most people here don't know what a league is.
I know you didn't, I'm just saying that people are arguing over essentially who is better, and I'm saying that no-one really is.

As for the second part, you've completely lost me? What makes you think I don't know what a league is?
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Old October 17th, 2009, 02:21 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phriggin' Ogre View Post
no point in that reply other than to bash the U.S. You're a ****.



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Old October 17th, 2009, 02:24 PM   #131
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He is saying that others are bashing US but in 7 pages of this thread i can see only him bashing Europe. What the hell?
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Old October 17th, 2009, 08:40 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by SpicyMcHaggis View Post
He is saying that others are bashing US but in 7 pages of this thread i can see only him bashing Europe. What the hell?
Quote me. If you actually read a page or two you wouldn't look stupid. There were 3 people on a "lets prove why they don't have powerful leagues" spree. If you think I started this then you're an idiot.



The reason why most people here don't know what a league is because a poster mentioned the US having some of the most powerful leagues in the world, and many people freaked and started coming up with excuses. Pretty much every European got defensive and started bashing the US instead. It doesn't matter why. I never said the US was better at sports or anything. Population has nothing to do with it, its just the league.


I don't know why bigbossman is so offended about the Us having powerful leagues? I don't see Americans getting upset over Europe's. Its pretty retarded if you ask me. Especially since the US was getting bashed... I corrected... now everyone is getting defensive.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 09:22 PM   #133
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Are you for real Phriggin' Ogre?

Your argument is beyond retarded, i mean nobody has been trying to "prove why they [USA] don't have powerful leagues" . Nobody has even mentioned power except you, and nobody even cares that a league is powerful, powerful over what i wonder?

What we have been trying to show is that the ignorant aka you an Weava is that stats are more dangerous that WMDs in the wrong hands, and your use of them in the thread has proven such.

You can't refute what anyone says without
a. resorting to name calling
b. making things up
c. changing what you are actually arguing about

The problem here is clear you are so insular and you believe the hype so much that when this so called superior position is challenged you can't take it and go off the rails. Kind of like finding out you were adopted and your real dad is Charles Manson.

Basically, just accept the fact and move on

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Originally Posted by Phriggin' Ogre View Post
I'm done with the topic, you're right.
I thought you were done...
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Old October 17th, 2009, 09:36 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicyMcHaggis View Post
He is saying that others are bashing US but in 7 pages of this thread i can see only him bashing Europe. What the hell?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phriggin' Ogre View Post
Quote me. If you actually read a page or two you wouldn't look stupid.
OK (apt typo in bold btw, i read a page or two and didn't look stupid, you did however)

Lets refer to post #108 where you admitted your self

the actual quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phriggin' Ogre View Post
My posts probably did make it sound like I was bashing European sports a little...
followed by excuses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phriggin' Ogre View Post
none of my statements came close to the many in this thread
many what? "bashings" that you've dreamed up in your head... are you on mushrooms... LSD?
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Old October 17th, 2009, 09:42 PM   #135
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The MLB plays a massive amount of games so don't try to fool people into believing that.

There are very few NFL and college home games so demand is bound to be higher. The only impressive statistic is that people pay to watch college sports at all. That's something people in this country would find very hard to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
When you take into account population and amount of games, it isn't that impressive.

Although the Florida state intro is mildly entertaining, although the PA guy playing that "tomahawk chop" song every other play sort of summed it up
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman
I mean the only reason Nebraska has sold out for 40 odd years is because that's all nebraska has got...
Quote:

You know what, i'd take the non global audience if it meant there was less money in the game. I can't stand all the rediculous man united/real madrid/chelsea fans who die for the cause in the far east etc... inflating everything and creating a rediculous wealth gap that needs crooked billionaires, unruly banks and fake sheihks to remedy!



Not one place in the states would, but tbf to them it's all because of their sports business model, it's all about the benjamins...!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdidasGazelle View Post
Great attendances indeed but the interest outside of the states is very limited.

Football is the sport of our world and always will be
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
1. Total attendance, come on now... you are counting people more than once
2. Each of the 30 teams plays 81 home games.



1. total attendnace, come on now...
2. Each of the 30 teams plays 41 home games



32 professional teams in a country of 300+ million. Only one of those teams plays in a metro of less than a million.

They play 8 home games a season



around 6 home games a season. (some less, one or two more)
State universities have massive alumni and they are the pro teams in many cities/states

I mean the only reason Nebraska has sold out for 40 odd years is because that's all nebraska has got...



Yes because the most populated FOOTBALL country is only a developing nation and has a population 2/3 yours.

The next has less than half your population.

Don't even try and compare to England, Spain, Germany, Italy, the netherlands etc.

Those numbers you posted are not impressive at all
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB View Post
There's no doubt that American professional sports franchises and college teams are very well supported. I think it would be amazing to sample the atmosphere at a College football game, especially - not to mention the tailgating!

Thing is, though, Superbowls and World Series aside, there isn't a truly global interest in American sports outside of America.

Unlike, say, the Premier League in England or La Liga in Spain, which have a global audience of billions all over the world.

So getting back on track, I have to repeat that, for all that Landshark is a busy stadium, it (or even the city of Miami) could never be accurately described as the stadium capital of the world.
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many latin american countries?

I can think of 4 of any real significance- Cuba, Domincan Rep, Panama and Venezuela.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvictory View Post
Which puts it into the top three leagues in the world? If any American sport is followed internationally it is Basketball not baseball and certainly not American Football and even then there are many football leagues more important and supported than any of them.
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Originally Posted by mvictory View Post
3 Largest sports leagues. Nobody outside of America follows either of those sports let alone leagues. One isn't even professional. I'm sorry but that sort of comment is what has given the US such a bad reputation worldwide. Complete ignorance of anything outside of your country.

Sorry if I offended any Americans by this. I do know that you also happen to have a lot of very smart people and you are not all this ignorant.
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Originally Posted by JYDA View Post
Correction: The United States' largest sports leagues. I find it hilarious the ignorance of that statement considering you didn't even list the american sports league with the largest global audience (NBA). Still puny compared to the UEFA Champions League.

All before I posted a single thing...and those aren't all of them. Most of those had false and denigrating statements. And as soon as I pointed these out, you, bossman, just HAD TO PROVE, that American sports suck, right? I mean you only mentioned it in most of the pages. Looking at every figure and saying that it isn't impressive is very arrogant.


btw, I atleast wanted to be somewhat mature about it, but you keep dragging it on. Are you ever going to admit that the U.S.'s leagues being the most profitable, most attended, and highest average attendance? Because irregardless of size, and even though you may not think its impressive, the stat is true. why can't you wrap your head around that? The only thing you've done this thread is have a superiority complex with baseless condenscending remarks. Europe isn't #1 in everything, you know.


so, seriously, just shut up and stay on topic. I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove now, and the only person making excuses was you. I don't know why you turned this into an "us vs they" argument.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 10:02 PM   #136
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Old October 18th, 2009, 12:52 AM   #137
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So, lets get back on topic and hope certain disruptive individuals stay away.

Is anyone going to challenge London for this crown?



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Old October 18th, 2009, 12:55 AM   #138
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So, lets get back on topic and hope certain disruptive individuals stay away.

Is anyone going to challenge London for this crown?



I doubt it. London already has a huge repoitor of venues with more on their way! I think Mexico city and Buenos Aires might have a similar number, but many are not as impressive as London's.
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Old October 18th, 2009, 01:03 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phriggin' Ogre View Post
All before I posted a single thing...and those aren't all of them. Most of those had false and denigrating statements. And as soon as I pointed these out, you, bossman, just HAD TO PROVE, that American sports suck, right? I mean you only mentioned it in most of the pages. Looking at every figure and saying that it isn't impressive is very arrogant.


btw, I atleast wanted to be somewhat mature about it, but you keep dragging it on. Are you ever going to admit that the U.S.'s leagues being the most profitable, most attended, and highest average attendance? Because irregardless of size, and even though you may not think its impressive, the stat is true. why can't you wrap your head around that? The only thing you've done this thread is have a superiority complex with baseless condenscending remarks. Europe isn't #1 in everything, you know.


so, seriously, just shut up and stay on topic. I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove now, and the only person making excuses was you. I don't know why you turned this into an "us vs they" argument.
Erm nothing you posted in that post was bashing, it was complete fact (unfortunately you don't understand the concept of relativity) and you're the only one who can't see that (even other yanks in this thread can). If you think that means you are right, then good for you and I hope that now means you can rest peacefully.
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Old October 18th, 2009, 01:38 AM   #140
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Beijing has a lot of venues, but it's attendances are poor.

National Stadium - 80,000
Workers Stadium - 64,000
Olympic Sports Centre - 36,000
Beijing National Indoor Stadium - 18,000
Wukesong Indoor Stadium - 18,000
Capital Indoor Stadium - 17,900
Workers Indoor Arena - 13,000
Beijing Science and Technology University Gymnasium - 8,000
Beijing University of Technology Gymnasium - 7,500
Olympic Sports Center Gymnasium - 7,000
Beijing National Aquatics Center - 6,000
China Agricultural University Gymnasium - 6,000
Peking University Gymnasium - 6,000
Beihang University Gymnasium - 5,400
Beijing Institute of Technology Gymnasium - 5,000

That includes arenas though.
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