Hull and Humber - In the Media

[pug]

Dazzar, Im getting to the point where Im wasting my time. So you can believe whatyou want if it makes you feel better. If you know different perhaps you should be channeling yoiur energy into letting these companies know how to run their business. Consultancy can be quite lucrative.

Thanks for the link by the way, so if you were to approach a chain with a view to opening in either Hull or York, which city has the most retail spend per head of its population (by far)? Consider that Yorks boundaries are widely drawn, and Hulls are tightly drawn as we know.

This link should give you a comparison with other cities, bit also show you some of the analysis process..

http://www.investinnottingham.com/ne...iaCategoryId=4

[legolamb]

that link says nothing regarding spending per head of population (or catchment).

We know that Hull is still underperforming on that measurement anyway, but surely you can afford yourself a little encouragement that the city has overtaken a regional rival on overall spend? The story daz posted was refreshingly positive IMO.

[pug]

Of course it does. Its retail spend in the city, with a catchment area of some 400,000 people in the urban area. Per head that is around 50% of that of York.

[legolamb]

I'm sorry, I must be missing something. I've just re-read it and I can't find any reference to spending per head of population.

Take this as an example:

"No one is ever going to overtake London or Glasgow, and I'd be surprised if we could ever match the numbers of Birmingham or Manchester,"

Now given the relative sizes of those four quoted cities urban area populations in relation to Nottingham's, I would have assumed Nottingham would be on top using the 'per head' measurement?

[pug]

Read the link Dazzar posted, which is what I'm refering to. I am comparing York with Hull on a per head basis.

The link I posted was in reference to the point Dazzar made regarding this being in the top 20 biggest cities in the UK. Not exactly good when you consider that it is the 36th in terms of retail spend.

Before you say that per head spend is irrelevent, where is a high end retailer likely to base? A place where spending is £1500 per head, or £3000? This information will be widely available to potential retailers looking at Hull, among other things. To suggest that these businesses would shun expansion potential due to a city's reputations is just BS, which is the point I am trying to make.

I guess its just too easy to blame the 'meeja' for the bad reputation damaging the local economy, when in fact the root cause is much closer to home, and in reality that is what needs to be tackled for the future vitality of this city and its population.

[legolamb]

But we know that Hull is underperforming on a per head basis. I'm questioning why you felt the need to start discussing a negative in relation to dazzars article when it was a positive story?

I guess its just too easy to blame the 'meeja' for the bad reputation damaging the local economy, when in fact the root cause is much closer to home, and in reality that is what needs to be tackled for the future vitality of this city and its population.

But this is a 'Hull in the Media thread', so discussion of whether the city is unfairly portrayed and any hint of ignorant bias in the media is there to be discussed.

There are plenty of other parts of the forum to discuss the matters you mention.

In fact I'd be very interested to hear you thoughts on the deficiencies of the local population.

[pug]

Legolamb, you have clearly waded into this debate without reading all of the posts. I will not go quoting posts that I have already responded to some time ago so I suggest you read back to the original JSP story and go from there.

Dazzar is suggesting that it is the citys bad reputation which is stopping retailers coming to the city. I am arguing the point that this is not true. The per head spending figures (which any potential retailer will have available to them, amongst other things) are pretty poor compared to other cities of Hulls size, which doesnt bode well when, for instance, the likes of St Stephens and Princes Quay are out trying to attract those higher end retailers that other cities of Hulls size enjoy. Media reputations have very little if anything to do with it!

[legolamb]

I get the part about the city underperforming on the per head measurement. I have acknowledged that this is true several times. I've just noticed your edit below, which does help explain where you are coming from, but was not backed up in the analysts report you posted a link to:

Before you say that per head spend is irrelevent, where is a high end retailer likely to base? A place where spending is £1500 per head, or £3000? This information will be widely available to potential retailers looking at Hull, among other things. To suggest that these businesses would shun expansion potential due to a city's reputations is just BS, which is the point I am trying to make.

I must say though, I'm not particularly convinced.

I don't know many retail strategists myself but I would have assumed that the reason high end names are present in all of the top 5 or 10 cities on that list is down to the fact that they also have some of the largest catchment areas, and their populations and statuses as some of the largest cities are widely known through the media. It's also not beyond the possible that these cities are acknowledged as jut that by retail decision makers.Maybe it is just accepted that they are large cities with varied populations and degrees of affluence? Meanwhile, Hull isn't seen in the same way? It is seen as a small, poor northern town roughly similar in size to Maidstone?

[pug]

Ive never workerd in that area in high street retail, but I have in other sectors. There will be some fundamental differences, but in reality (and the core point of the argument) is that these companies will pay very little, if any, attention to any bad reputation Hull may have.

I fully believe, as far as awareness of Hull is concerned, it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. St Stephens and Princes Quay will have some form of market and business development, which will involve attracting new businesses, with the obvious intention of increasing footfall. For some (Lipsy, Cult) they perhaps wouldn't fully consider Hull before due to 'just about knowing where Hull is', which is when St Stephens start inviting them to visit, and presumably offer them good rental and startup deals in prominent locations in their centres, along with the facts and figures. That suggests marketing may have been lacking previously on Hulls' part, but I can pretty much guarantee that there are others who St Stephens and Princes Quay have talked with, and decided against coming to Hull for other reasons (such as low overall spend relative to population).

For the retailers, they will of course want to get into the big cities of Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham etal first, look at it from a London perspective, will places like Hull be on that same list of priorities? Ive already mentioned the low spend relative to York, and if there ever was a choice between the two (and I suspect that could have been the case in the past with some), then I would bet that York would be more likely to come out on top. The population clearly have a propensity to spend more per head, so a bigger market.

So call the city's problem a lack of effective marketing or a lack of disposable income in Hull, or perhaps lack of cheaper rentals on the high street, but dont try to tell us that these companies would shun potentially lucrative markets due to Hulls' reputation in the media.

EDIT; I dont know what I haven't posted this before, but you see quite alot of graduate positions (market research, data analysis etc) in companies who deal directly in finding new markets for some of the major high street chains, and help consult on their growth strategies. To say they are not doing their jobs properly is naive at best.

[bighead]

Originally Posted by pug

The population clearly have a propensity to spend more per head, so a bigger market.

if hull has a bigger total spend, surely it is a bigger market, regardless of population?

100k people spending on average £3,000 is still a smaller market than 250k people spending £1,500.

[pug]

bighead, it clearly means that the people of Hull do not have a high disposable income compared to York. Hull may have a bigger market in terms of population, but if they dont spend the money on higher priced goods, then you aren't going to attract the retailers that sell such things.

[Pippin0490]

Originally Posted by pug

bighead, it clearly means that the people of Hull do not have a high disposable income compared to York. Hull may have a bigger market in terms of population, but if they dont spend the money on higher priced goods, then you aren't going to attract the retailers that sell such things.

That could be difficult to judge thought, as with the stats mentioned above, how many of the people spending in York are from the Hull area? How much of the spending in Hull is from tourists? Or vise versa.

As I mentioned earlier, both sides of this arguement make very good points. I agree with Dazzar that negative media attention can cause issues for our city. But, I also agree with Pug in saying that companies would be foolish to turn down a good market just because of negative stories. It is interesting, who knows for sure what the real reason could be? Perhaps a combination of the above?

I have often mentioned that I have travelled around this county a lot and have thus met many residents of other cities. As far as normal people go, most of the time they don't know anything about Hull, or even where it is. This - as mentioned by others on here - could very much be the/a reason behind retail companies decisions. But is this itself a media problem? Or - as pug suggested - a problem closer to home?

[pug]

That could be difficult to judge thought, as with the stats mentioned above, how many of the people spending in York are from the Hull area?

I know what you mean, but then does that really matter to these retailers? If more people spend in York then they can be pretty sure they would get more custom in York. Of course there will always be that catch 22 situation where we could say 'but surely if there arent the shops in Hull then those with the higher disposable income will travel to Leeds and York'. That is true, and that needs dealing with. That could be due to those from these more afluent people and their opinions of Hull, but it could also be due to not enough people in that area being able to support certain stores without attracting a larger number of visitors from outside of the area. Much harder for a coastal city than for Manchester and Leeds, when those cities are not too far away.

Marketing is likely to be an added problem, but then as I have already said, St Stephens and Princes Quay will be actively engaging in discussions with retailers. If they aren't then we can assume that they are happy with their lot...?

I know most people from the rest of the country dont really have an opinion of Hull, if they've heard of it. I've never had anyone saying anything detrimental to say about the place. Funnily enough the worst I have heard is from people who have/are living here. Still, you cannot make business decisions based upon reputations of a market without at least studying some facts and figures. It would be stupid to do so.

There is also the economy to factor in, and I could tell some anecdotes about Humberside Airport for instance, like how it has gone from offering 30 summer charter flights a week just a few years ago to 4 this year! The market is clearly there, but the risk for most airlines/operators just seems to great to take a punt.

[Dazzar86]

Another point:

Did anyone see 'Four In A Bed' on Channel 4 the other week when it was in Hull?!!

Camera zoomed in on graffiti, razor wire and the facade of Hull Arena... yet kept the camera as close to the people as they could when walking through the old town. They Ate at the Old White Hart on Alfred Gelder St - it didn't show them walking through the old town, it didn't show even a glimpse of the outside of such an amazing pub (despite them stood outside the pub giving their opinions on the meal etc), nor did it show the listed bar interior...

Now, as a producer of show, which would you think you audience would most like to see on a programme based on B&B tourism?

Yet the next day in a highly regenerated part of London, it showed them wandering down the streets - panoramic views etc... typical.

[Pippin0490]

Typical Channel 4, Daz. They seem obsessed with making the city out to be a dump.

I recall the 'Secret Millionaire' when it was in Hull. The filmed a run down dock from the deep,the poor spot on Ferensway from St. Stephens. And a poor shot of the Warren from the rose bowl fountain in Queens Gardens.

Also, they sent the millionaire into primary schools, yet it is not allowed to give money to schools as they're government owned. They filmed in a class my mother was teaching and the millionaire commented on how well behaved, smart and polite the children were. The Channel 4 staff on site let slip that they were only there to film poor behavour for the show. After this, they went to a special behavour improvement school and filmed a child shouting and throwing a fit. What was the point in that? Just typical channel 4 in regards to Hull.

I've noticed this from Channel 4 ever since that stuck up bitch, Kirsty Allsopp or whatever she's called, wrote that Hull is the 2nd worst place to live, yet the comments show she had never been to the city and knew nothing about it. "the only reason Hull is not the worst is because of it's sport facilities, but we don't think it is even in use". That was when city were in the Premier League.

Yet on that property program she is on for Channel 4, they where in a spot of London (maybe Hackney, can't quite remember) and they sang it's praises, that area is identical to most of Hull. And for what it's worth, fairly typical of all large English cities.

Also, the secret millionaire said that he lived in a 2 up, 2 down victorian middle terrace. Same as me, yet I'm not a millionaire. In fact most of the houses in the City are better & bigger Victorian terraces, and the houses on the outskits being 30's versions of these victorian terraces. The millionaire also said that he can't leave his Bicycle locked outside of his house as it will be stolen. That's not a problem for myself or any of the numerous cyclists I know living in and around the city centre.

Thank the Lord, that the BBC always makes places they're filming in look as good as possible. Such as on Coast and Great British Railway journeys. Where both were impressed and suprised with how good the city was.

I think the worst Channel 4 have done was that 'Council Block of Horrors' or whatever it was called. Where they got a Scunthorpe MP to live in the cities worst tower block in the worst area. They claimed the council gave them the flat and it was in a shocking state (broken glass, full or rubbish, mould etc etc etc) yet in reality Channel 4 used that privatly owned flat during the filming time and delibrately trashed it to look worse. I recall the council saying in the local media that they were considering taking Channel 4 to court over misrepresentaion. Didn't hear anything after that however.

I loath channel 4. I want to get hold of the episodes they have filmed here and film with my own camera what channel 4 delibratly cut off. For example, get an image of where they filmed a poor bit of Ferensway and say "this is what Ferensway looks like if you just move the camera slightly to the left..." and the same with the other aforementioned delibratly negative images they filmed and the same as what Dazzar mentioned with the graffiti etc.

Is this another case of writing a letter? I really think that we should get together and put our views together in regards to wrongly negative media stories and make a point of it being wrong. Show people (the cities own residents mainly) how beautiful this city is and not just to believe the shite channel 4 spew. As well as this, it would be worth doing the same and write to our MPs about how the government continually fuck our city over, such as:

Sheffield & Leeds getting money for regeneration because of their state of disrepair, but not us. Then saying our city is run down.

Cutting 40,000 private jobs from this region, with the 2nd highest job cuts being in the north east at 7,000. Whereas in London, they gained 40,000 jobs. Then releasing news that "Hull has worst unemployment in Britain"

By far the least money for regeneration since the war years. Government paying hundreds of millions to fix Dresden, but not Hull! All other cities have had shit loads more government money that our city, when our city needs it most (especially if the negative stories from media & government are to be believed).

Nobody giving a shit when the city was hit by german bombs at the begining of WWI, saying once again "it's hard to hear from you lot all the way up there". And the same happened in WWII.

I could go on and on and on. I am sick of this happening. Other people agree with me and have gone as far to say "Why is this continually happening to our city? what have we done wrong to deserve this? it's like this city is discriminated against by our own government!"

The people who are aware of this and those that care about our city are unfortunatly not the people that can make a difference. All we can do is complain and ask "why?". Perhaps we should try doing something, even if it is just writing letters, taking videos, etc. It may not result in much, but surely it's better than doing nothing?

Please, tell me I am not alone, please.

[livin' hull]

ha the old channel 4 issue... their editing etc are ALL designed to give bad impressions of Hull - I cant recall 1 channel 4 show thats ever shown Hull in a good light, from images of Hull in opening titles that are 'selective' to say the least (run down streets, smoke belching chemical works etc) on shows such as 'come dine with me' to very selective (and dodgy) use of stats on the old worst city show (Hull went from 1st to nowhere to 2nd in 3 years) surprisingly London boroughs fared remarkedly better in the 3rd (and final thank the Gods) series after they changed the weighting of the stats. Why they didnt just use the 'official' multiple indicies of deprivation ? not dodgy stats such as 'number of coffee shops' !!!

If I wasnt a sane and sensible person I'd say there was a conspiracy in place to ensure London boroughs werent shown in a bad light!

Anyway I actually made a compliant when they showed the final series of worst city as they 'apparently' showed Phil stood in the city saying how bad it was (despite obv. being in Cleethorpes! a beach and the Humber forts in background) - the response was shall we say 'rather lacking'.


but as for the recent 'four beds' I wouldnt be too worried - yes they could have shown better shots but at least the owner came out of it ok, unlike some in the show... (the Whittington and cat does have razor wire and is next to a retail park and dual carriageway - they couldnt/would be hard pushed to show any better angles)

[Dazzar86]

New Hull-based song out.

Josh Moore is picking up a good repuation for the videos he's doing locally - could be a Hull Shane Meadows of the future?

He also shot this vid which I really like for Nineties Boy Vs Endoflevelbaddie:

[Hull City Mad]

Endoflevelbaddie is superb

http://youtu.be/fb6QuHMwCgE

As are Fonda 500

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tZ6N0iHUHc

And Throbbing Gristle who formed in Hull, for those musos amongst us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8klW9trVTQ

[Dazzar86]

Yeah really like Scott(baddie)'s stuff - nice bloke too. Really adds something with Playa One as well.

What's people's opinions on the top vid? Obviously it has negative 'connotations', but I don't think it's any more damaging to Hull than what Geordie Shore is to Newcastle (and that's more public) - I'm sure those from the Newcastle forum could clarify?

[Love_London]

Hello chaps,
Sorry to jump in to your thread. I have family in Hull and love visiting the city for many reasons. Anyway as I came across this forum I was surprised to see that Hull has it's own little thread and as you talk about this topic I thought I would have a read through as local music really interests me. Hull has some really good local bands and often when I come to visit I love to find these local small gigs, I can't seem to get enough of them

First of all Dazzar86 I'm sorry to say those recent links you posted are terrible! What an earth is that? No creativity what so ever

Anyway some of you might be aware of the Warren(?) or Warren music(?) and I came across a young band called 'The Moxies' they have a slight Arctic Monkeys resemblance that I'm sure you will be able to recognise, here's a link anyway

http://m.soundcloud.com/warrenrecord...rren-session-1