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Old October 18th, 2009, 05:17 PM   #1
TownPlanningNE
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Newcastle Great Park | Newcastle | Various | U/C

Description from Newcastle City Council:

The scheme is being delivered by the Great Park Consortium, which includes the house builders Persimmon Homes, Taylor Wimpey and Charles Church. Parts of the development have also been built by Barratt and Bryant.

The early phases of the housing development, known as Warkworth Woods and Melbury are almost complete. The next phase Greenside, to the north of Kingston Park is also well underway.

The largest phase of housing development is being planned to the west of the A1 road, along with the local centre. Around 2500 homes are proposed to be built in total.

Sage and the Primary Care Trust are located at the Great Park on the business park.

http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf...astlegreatpark


Description from newcastlegreatpark.com:

Newcastle Great Park (NGP) is an impressive sustainable urban development situated in the North East of England. Uniquely positioned in a rural setting, the park will encompass high quality residential dwellings, commercial premises and community facilities offering universal appeal.

Just three miles from Newcastle city centre, the development already has more than 550 homes built and occupied by residents who desire a great new way of living. When completed NGP will offer a wide range of contemporary housing, a high quality business park and a fully developed town centre incorporating retail, health, leisure, hotel and community facilities.

Half of the 1,200 acre site is being landscaped to create a rich mix of woodland and meadowland with hills, vales and streams- all of which can be enjoyed by residents and visitors to Newcastle Great Park. With the inclusion of wide open spaces, cycle paths and walkways the park promotes a healthy lifestyle for everyone to enjoy.

Newcastle Great Park is one of the most accessible locations in the North East from air, rail, road and sea. The development benefits from an entirely new infrastructure of road systems, cycle-ways and its own dedicated public transport services.

http://www.newcastlegreatpark.com/


Plan:




Images:





The world HQ for Sage software is located within the centre of Newcastle Great Park:



http://www.hickton.co.uk/projects/


This large project is currently under phased development with already a large number of homes built, the next phase is another block of houses and the development of the centre of Great Park with the inclusion of Primary health care facilities, A new first school, Crèche, Health Club, A hotel, Hospital and ancillary healthcare facilities.
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Old October 18th, 2009, 05:27 PM   #2
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It's a shame those renders don't really give us much of a view. I'm interested in this project, it seems to be diffrent, I'm also interested in weather or not it will be a success.

Though I do feel for such a large area of land, only 2,500 homes are to built.
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Old October 18th, 2009, 09:29 PM   #3
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Being a resident of North Gosforth I really wish they had left this area of the city alone until they had filled Scotswood (which is just desolate) etc, the transport links are atrocious and the urban design, access and landscaping is foul.

Meanwhile Scotswood with much better access and transport links and in desperate need of regeneration lies empty.

Progress?
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Old October 19th, 2009, 07:59 AM   #4
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Yeah but middle class, middle income tax PAYERS (rather than dodgers ) want to live in North Newcastle, not West. The problem Newcastle is trying to fix is that of North Tyneside luring middle-class families to another local authority with their raft of build em big and sell em cheap housing (Northumberland Park being the prime example).
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Old October 19th, 2009, 09:40 AM   #5
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Quite right Toonlad, they're just trying to counteract NT's lure as a commuter area, in the same way that NT has tried to create retail centres to counteract the lure of Newcastle city centre. Exactly why they shouldn't be separate councils!

Also, those images up at the top aren't current, they're for the original masterplan, it's a lot less Poundbury now. I agree that the public transport links aren't great, but the doomed Project Orpheus did have a link to it. Would have been nice to have trams running down the 'High Street' of NGP into the city centre, shame.
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Old October 19th, 2009, 10:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatton11 View Post
Quite right Toonlad, they're just trying to counteract NT's lure as a commuter area, in the same way that NT has tried to create retail centres to counteract the lure of Newcastle city centre. Exactly why they shouldn't be separate councils!

Also, those images up at the top aren't current, they're for the original masterplan, it's a lot less Poundbury now. I agree that the public transport links aren't great, but the doomed Project Orpheus did have a link to it. Would have been nice to have trams running down the 'High Street' of NGP into the city centre, shame.
Beat me to it!!
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Old October 19th, 2009, 03:01 PM   #7
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Beat me to it!!
me too
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Old October 27th, 2009, 01:26 AM   #8
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Just out of interest, my cousin used to live in Brunton Park and his house overlooked miles of green fields for years . . nothing else. Then, in the 1990s, the 'Newcastle Western Bypass' (A1) crossed the fields about two miles away. He didn't notice that too much (though he could 'just' hear the hum of traffic). Then, in 2003, in front of his eyes 'Newcastle Great Park' started being built, taking over ALL of his fields. He has since moved, but took a series of photos of the "invasion" which I have copies of . . here are just EIGHT of them, showing what happened . . .

1 - Prior to 2003, his view across the fields towards the A1.


2 - 21st March 2003.


3 - 21st June 2003.


4 - 19th July 2003.


5 - 21st September 2003.


6 - 27th December 2003.


7 - 8th February 2004.


8 - 16th April 2004, construction finished, view all GONE.


OK, I'm not sure how interesting these photos are, but it does show exactly what most parts of the housing of the Great Park is like (so far) which is very condensed, with small (or non-existent) front gardens with houses close to the road.

The photos also demonstrate how you can never rely on keeping your view!!!

Last edited by Newcastle Historian; October 27th, 2009 at 01:52 AM.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 10:55 AM   #9
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Yeah, I mean there's only limited amount of brownfield sites around, so to build all the new houses we need, inevitably most will be on greenfield sites. Shame for your uncle though!
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Old October 27th, 2009, 01:08 PM   #10
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Hmmm, true to a point, but as Irish Blood says there's a lot of brownfield left in the city (and much closer to the centre) so there's no real reason to be churning out these boxes at the NGP.

It's only still going because the council have signed up to it and can't break off from delivering the Great Park now. I bet if you asked anyone involved they'd say that they'd rather stop it now - or even that they'd have been better off never having started.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 01:21 PM   #11
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Great Park never made more sense then to build more needed housing. As everyone now knows though, you need to build facilities with the houses, so they came up with the idea that you can do everything, including work without going out of your housing estate. The trouble with it is,

1. Is their enough middle class people to fill the houses?

2. Will it mean a large percentage of middle class people will move away from places like North Tyneside?, thus making North Tyneside even more of a working class district, and increasing the number of problems you have following that.

3. Is it worth the cost?, I'm sure the money would of been better off spending money on the city centre in all areas and also regenerating the west end of Newcastle.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 02:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigchrisfgb View Post
Great Park never made more sense then to build more needed housing. As everyone now knows though, you need to build facilities with the houses, so they came up with the idea that you can do everything, including work without going out of your housing estate. The trouble with it is,

1. Is their enough middle class people to fill the houses?

2. Will it mean a large percentage of middle class people will move away from places like North Tyneside?, thus making North Tyneside even more of a working class district, and increasing the number of problems you have following that.

3. Is it worth the cost?, I'm sure the money would of been better off spending money on the city centre in all areas and also regenerating the west end of Newcastle.
The problem Newcastle had/has was that a lot of its middle class / managerial / aspirational population was moving out of the city to places like Tynedale and Morpeth. It was agreed that there was an urgent need to regenerate the West and East Ends but with the best will in the world the Great Park buyers weren't going to contemplate moving to Walker or Scotswood as a first choice destination. Newcastle thus had to build something or risk losing this population to other areas beyond the city boundary. A city needs to retain its population and tax base if it is to prosper.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 02:18 PM   #13
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Yeah, I agree with Greg, I don't think there was a decision to not do Scotswood till NGP was done or anything. It's just that Scotswood is taking forever to do anything. I can't think of enough Brownfield land in Newcastle to house all of the houses planned for NGP, not counting Scotswood, as, as Greg says, middle income middle-class families aren't going to move to Scotswood for love nor money. They want to live in north Newcastle. Oh, and the reason's the houses are so close together at NGP is down to PPG3/PPS3 I think. Having said all of that, I'm not at all convinced how well NGP will work as a retail centre. I'll have a look and post the locations of the current planning applications for the site, not that old stuff at the top. I think I posted them before somewhere on the old thread, but no chance of finding that again!
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Old October 27th, 2009, 02:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngerOfTheNorth View Post
It's only still going because the council have signed up to it and can't break off from delivering the Great Park now. I bet if you asked anyone involved they'd say that they'd rather stop it now - or even that they'd have been better off never having started.
Is that your opinion or do you know that for fact? If so who is saying they want to stop it or wish they'd never started?

Just to further what Greg has said, I have done research into the local economy in the past and it shows that the majority of middle class/people in high position jobs prefer to live away from the actual city and commute. The inner city is not seen as desirable, however this is where the jobs are so people have to live nearby. From this I'd say Great Park is in the right position for this particular market and should help retain the population who otherwise opt to move to rural Northumberland.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 02:40 PM   #15
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Found it:

If you follow this link, the documents for the bit of NGP north of Brunton Lane can be viewed. There's a lot of old documents in there, but if you follow the dates, there's a design and access statement put in April/May, which has a lot of stuff in.

No detail yet on the bit of the town centre south of Brunton lane, but it looks like you can see it on some of the drawings.


The Scheme Design Document added in June 2009 seems to have a lot of info in
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Old October 27th, 2009, 02:52 PM   #16
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Ok, that document doesn't seem to be opening, but I'm sure it was doing earlier!
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Old October 27th, 2009, 03:03 PM   #17
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I think I have been miss interperated. I did not mean that middle class families could be housed inplaces like Walker, Scotswood etc. I did actually mean that surely more should be done for middle class families who live in places like Monkseaton, Whitley Bay, Jesmond, Gosforth.
I do think that money should be spent on these other places, To me it seems that the housing belonging to NCC appear to be within more problemed areas, and look to be alot more shalll I say basic/rundown then houses owned by say North Tyneside. I know places like North Shields, Wallsend, Killingworth etc are not pretty by anyones view, but the NCC counter parts of Byker, Walker, Scotswood and the west end seem to be down another notch, and something must be done about this.
I myself do, and would actually prefer to live in one of the working class neighbourhoods of North Tyneside then one of those run by NCC.

But this to be is not saying middle class familes should move to these areas to make them better, or NCC to invest in them for that aim, it's just asking the question would the money not be better spent upgrading these areas to a higher standard?

I don't think midle class families moving to places like Morpeth and Tynedale is a major concern right now, because they are still more then likely going to work, socialise, shop, and be entertained in Newcastle, Newcastle will still be a major influence on their lives. Atleast that is how appears to me, the stats may prove me wrong.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 05:32 PM   #18
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Don't have as big a problem with some of the housing element but i don't really think offices should be built that far out. Though iirc Sage threatened to leave the city altogether if they didnt get their way.

In order to boost the tax base NCC should try to annex Darras Hall.
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Old October 27th, 2009, 07:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnypd View Post
Don't have as big a problem with some of the housing element but i don't really think offices should be built that far out. Though iirc Sage threatened to leave the city altogether if they didnt get their way.

In order to boost the tax base NCC should try to annex Darras Hall.
Is that an option? im guessing the tax dollars of Darras Hall and Morpeth are probably bankrolling Northumberland CC's projects across Wansbeck and Blyth Valley (or what once were, since their dissolution).

Without wanting to get political, and my bias may be well-known, but I think we're letting North Tyneside off lightly here. Their modus operandi over the past decade seems to have been to create one vast commuter hive for Newcastle, investing next to f-all in the town centres (why bother when all your residents shop and work in Newcastle, or Silverlink/Cobalt/Quorum?) and churning out identikit estates and continuing Newcastles Eastwards featureless urban sprawl (Holystone, Palmersville, Northumberland Park, etc).

Though to be fair, the regen work on Battle Hill (surely the last word in crack infested maze estates) and Longbenton has to be recognised. grudgingly!
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Old October 27th, 2009, 11:41 PM   #20
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BL: agree with every word...

NGP was predicated (and agreed by Prescott) on the requirement for a major modern business park with A1/airport access with associated housing, retail, and community facilities.... although Sage was lured there at significant cost others were slow to follow and the housing part has outstripped the intended employment development.

The Lib Dems were against it in opposition but it was already agreed and well underway when we took over - we would have probably preferred to reconfigure it quite a bit and I don't think we would have proposed the same quantum of development. If we had cancelled it, it would have sent out extremely negative signals that development wasn't welcome in Newcastle (I know some feel we could still do more to counter this).

I recognise the argument that its existence "competes" with the greater need to attract homeowners to the East and West End regen areas (and I would have preferred it to be significantly more sustainable in terms of build for a Green Belt development to get permission) but as has been noted there has been a general acceptance that some form of "urban extension" to the north west was logical for the city's long term growth, not least because there isn't any other direction to go in!
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