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Old May 19th, 2010, 12:12 PM   #261
redbaron_012
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I understand any persons passion for their football code.....but it's only because what they have grown up with..That's why Melbourne is so AFL biased. I wish an alien could sit down and watch all the games and tell us which is really the best...you can't say soocer just because it has the biggest following.....It's like saying Nascar is the best motor racing because it has the biggest audience.
How people get so excited and can go home week after week with nil all or one nil games I will never know.....? and...the players can be fantastic but if the opposition goally is good or bad that day the whole team is hero or stuffed ? ............but that's looking from a AFL fan.....but I am happy for soccer and rugby to be here...of course....this is Melbourne after all !
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Old May 19th, 2010, 12:15 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
This question goes out to Mo Rush who seems to have an in depth knowledge of the bid process and general organisation for SA2010.

Currently Australia is proposing several oval stadiums as part of their bid. Were Australia to win the bid, what are the chances of those being replaced with other stadiums, whether they be newly built or existing (Etihad), and how would FIFA excert enough pressure for these to be changed?

While Id love these changes to be made, I dont understand how FIFA can make such significant changes.
It depends on the host county and host city. First things first. FIFA get what FIFA want at least 9 out of 10 times. Its not a negotiation. They've been doing this for decades, hosting World Cups, running events, media, PR, marketing. Don't be fooled by the "face of FIFA" Blatter, as an indication of the entire organization. Its a slick, professional and high powered global company.


After you understand that, the rest is up to the host city/country.

Venues will not be changed unless they need to and ovals are unlike to cause a major fuss if they have sufficient space around the venue to cater to the media/hospitality/sponsors/safety areas.

Its more important that the inside of the venue, the spaces, the FIFA mascot room, changing areas etc meet FIFA requirements in terms of space, as outlined its technical recommendations and requirements (available online). Its not necessarily about how "pretty" or "Square" a venue is.

The final selection of the host cities and venues will generally happen after several public and private FIFA inspections and presentations by host cities when Australia wins the 2022 bid.

The huge gap between 2010 and 2022 means several changes will likely be made by either FIFA or Australia.

Its a major marketing/media event for the host nation, with FIFA's revenues $3.4bn (30% up on Germany) from sponsors/broadcasters being vital to keep them comfy.

So one can understand that broadcasters, FIFA, sponsors etc. would want a stadium with a retractable roof. They want the certainty that the huge amounts of money paid to broadcast the match exclusively will not be hampered by weather or changing light conditions.

IMO and only my opinion I think the final list of host cities or venues
1. Will be limited to 8-10 venues, 7-9 host cities
2. It is possible that Melbourne and Sydney will have two venues, under the host city names "Melbourne" and "Sydney" i.e. not Geelong/Blackpool which wil have their own venues
3. Its unlikely that Groups will be limited to certain cities or areas in the country


Why is Canberra building a new venue? Whats wrong with its current stadium?
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Old May 19th, 2010, 01:38 PM   #263
Melb_aviator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
You're joking right?
Absolutely not joking. Where in there was a joke. Its common knowledge the struggles that both those cities/countries had in the lead ups.

SA's venues had many issues, with a very concerned FIFA publically stating their dissaproval during the last couple of years about issues experienced in timeline creeping/delays. To deny that would be a very untruthful.

Athens really went to the final moments though, eclipsing any issues SA had.

The point I was making was clear regarding the right time to start on the venues. Its learning from past issues and trying to alleviate them.

Overall though , I am hoping for a great 2010 WC.

Last edited by Melb_aviator; May 19th, 2010 at 01:45 PM.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Melb_aviator View Post
Absolutely not joking. Where in there was a joke. Its common knowledge the struggles that both those cities/countries had in the lead ups.

SA's venues had many issues, with a very concerned FIFA publically stating their dissaproval during the last couple of years about issues experienced in timeline creeping/delays. To deny that would be a very untruthful.

Athens really went to the final moments though, eclipsing any issues SA had.

The point I was making was clear regarding the right time to start on the venues. Its learning from past issues and trying to alleviate them.
I'd hardly compare Athens to South Africa, who had 5 venues ready in June 2009, the final venue in Cape Town in December 2009. 6 months ahead of kick-off. Beijing's Olympic stadium was also ready about 6 months before the Games.

This is leaps and bounds ahead of Athens. Yes there were strikes but there were strikes in France too. In Athens venues were so late, security drills or test were not possible or only possible days or a week or 2 before the Games at venues.

South Africa's issues were in 2006 when funds needed to be released from treasury to get construction going. Once construction started and was in advanced stages there was no risk of major construction works at venues not being ready for the World Cup.

To say there we no issues is untrue but to make a comparison with Athens is highly exaggerated and way off the mark.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 01:54 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
I'd hardly compare Athens to South Africa, who had 5 venues ready in June 2009, the final venue in Cape Town in December 2009. 6 months ahead of kick-off. Beijing's Olympic stadium was also ready about 6 months before the Games.

This is leaps and bounds ahead of Athens. Yes there were strikes but there were strikes in France too. In Athens venues were so late, security drills or test were not possible or only possible days or a week or 2 before the Games at venues.

South Africa's issues were in 2006 when funds needed to be released from treasury to get construction going. Once construction started and was in advanced stages there was no risk of major construction works at venues not being ready for the World Cup.

To say there we no issues is untrue but to make a comparison with Athens is highly exaggerated and way off the mark.
Its an opinion.. and honestly it isn't an overexaggeration as you say. SA had issues that could well have caused the event to have moved, and needed to increase spending to get the venues finished. Some venues may have been completed a few months ago, but still look like construction sites around the outside as construction is not only about the stadium but its surrounds. That the reality.

In my eyes anything that can derail the delivery date, like the strikes and treasury issues, are extremely concerning. Thats my point why more time should be left to have things ready, if a bid is won by Australia.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 01:56 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
The final selection of the host cities and venues will generally happen after several public and private FIFA inspections and presentations by host cities when Australia wins the 2022 bid.

...Why is Canberra building a new venue? Whats wrong with its current stadium?
Nice...

As for Canberra. My guess is that the current ground isn't worth expanding especially when the basic layout and the main stand will be 45 years old by 2022. There is also talk of returning Canberra Stadium to an Oval and using it as the HQ for Australian Football in the ACT (with a reduced capacity of around 15 000) should a new Rectangular stadium be built.
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Old May 19th, 2010, 02:39 PM   #267
Mo Rush
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melb_aviator View Post
Its an opinion.. and honestly it isn't an overexaggeration as you say. SA had issues that could well have caused the event to have moved, and needed to increase spending to get the venues finished. Some venues may have been completed a few months ago, but still look like construction sites around the outside as construction is not only about the stadium but its surrounds. That the reality.

In my eyes anything that can derail the delivery date, like the strikes and treasury issues, are extremely concerning. Thats my point why more time should be left to have things ready, if a bid is won by Australia.
As I've stated before, a comparison with Athens is both highly exaggerated and way off the mark.

Spending was increased due to the inflation in material costs, and spending was naturally provided by government. How is that a negative issue? There has been no race to the finish as in Athens 2004.

If there is a venue with a concern with landscaping then its perhaps Soccer City, the largest stadium in Africa, and Mbombela.

2month to go - Athens





4 months before the Beijing Games.. Was this landscaping as "concerning" to you?



4 months before kick-off

Polokwane


4 months before kick-off

Bloemfontein



5 months before kick-off

Durban



4 months before kick-off

Nelson Mandela Bay



Rustenburg



Soccer City



Pretoria



6 months to go




Cape Town

Last edited by Mo Rush; May 19th, 2010 at 03:02 PM.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 05:37 AM   #268
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Your missing my point so do not worry about it man.

Its good they were done in the end.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 11:15 AM   #269
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What is your point?

My point, is that a comparison to Athens is highly exaggerated and way off the mark. There were and are several issues, but they never came near to the "media circus" they media would have loved if Africa was not ready.

Australia if it wins 2022 will have lots of time to prepare. I don't doubt that it would complete venues well before 2022 and all of them by 2021.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:40 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woozoo View Post
This question goes out to Mo Rush who seems to have an in depth knowledge of the bid process and general organisation for SA2010.

Currently Australia is proposing several oval stadiums as part of their bid. Were Australia to win the bid, what are the chances of those being replaced with other stadiums, whether they be newly built or existing (Etihad), and how would FIFA excert enough pressure for these to be changed?

While Id love these changes to be made, I dont understand how FIFA can make such significant changes.
Personally, I'm not to worried about Australia's position with regards to oval venues. While it doesn't compare to England or Germany (or even South Africa for that matter) I still think we'll have reasonable stadiums. Of course, venues aren't our strong point over other bids.

We have proposed X "Oval" venues
Melbourne
Gold Coast
Geelong

And X that do not offer the preferred rectangular seating mode
Perth
Adelaide
Sydney (ANZ)

That still leaves half of the proposed venues with "ideal" pitch configurations, and three-quarters with acceptable arrangements.

I would've liked to have seen major upgrades to Sydney Football Stadium in the bid, as well as a fully rectangular ground on the Gold Coast. Mind you, the Gold Coast venue will still offer a far better experience than the MCG and Geelong.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:47 AM   #271
aaronaugi1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Rush View Post
What is your point?

My point, is that a comparison to Athens is highly exaggerated and way off the mark. There were and are several issues, but they never came near to the "media circus" they media would have loved if Africa was not ready.

Australia if it wins 2022 will have lots of time to prepare. I don't doubt that it would complete venues well before 2022 and all of them by 2021.
I doubt we'd have any problems. Adelaide is already "under construction", the Gold Coast will only require a small upgrade, Geelong has "stage 1" under construction, Perth has some planning completed and plans to construct the venue regardless of the WC, Newcastle is 1/4 completed already.

The only "new" venues are Canberra, Blacktown and Townsville
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Old May 21st, 2010, 05:59 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronaugi1 View Post
Personally, I'm not to worried about Australia's position with regards to oval venues. While it doesn't compare to England or Germany (or even South Africa for that matter) I still think we'll have reasonable stadiums. Of course, venues aren't our strong point over other bids.

We have proposed X "Oval" venues
Melbourne
Gold Coast
Geelong

And X that do not offer the preferred rectangular seating mode
Perth
Adelaide
Sydney (ANZ)

That still leaves half of the proposed venues with "ideal" pitch configurations, and three-quarters with acceptable arrangements.

I would've liked to have seen major upgrades to Sydney Football Stadium in the bid, as well as a fully rectangular ground on the Gold Coast. Mind you, the Gold Coast venue will still offer a far better experience than the MCG and Geelong.
Geelong's redevelopment involves digging into the ground and making it somewhat of a rectangle

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronaugi1 View Post
I doubt we'd have any problems. Adelaide is already "under construction", the Gold Coast will only require a small upgrade, Geelong has "stage 1" under construction, Perth has some planning completed and plans to construct the venue regardless of the WC, Newcastle is 1/4 completed already.

The only "new" venues are Canberra, Blacktown and Townsville
Geelong has just finished stage 2
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Old May 21st, 2010, 06:07 PM   #273
Mo Rush
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronaugi1 View Post
I doubt we'd have any problems. Adelaide is already "under construction", the Gold Coast will only require a small upgrade, Geelong has "stage 1" under construction, Perth has some planning completed and plans to construct the venue regardless of the WC, Newcastle is 1/4 completed already.

The only "new" venues are Canberra, Blacktown and Townsville
Perth is building an entirely new stadium. Of course it will be ready but its not there yet.

Planning helps but its still new.

It will be a solid base of existing venues, along with a good mix of new venues.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 08:16 PM   #274
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Is the new Perth Stadium going to be at East Perth right at the Train Yard.
I Hread its going to be 65,000 seats.
But it wont be ready by 2022 so.
2018 USA
2022 Russia
2026 Australia
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Old May 21st, 2010, 11:32 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Lowry View Post
Is the new Perth Stadium going to be at East Perth right at the Train Yard.
I Hread its going to be 65,000 seats.
But it wont be ready by 2022 so.
2018 USA
2022 Russia
2026 Australia
2018 Matthew Lowry
2022 Matthew Lowry
2026 Matthew Lowry
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 01:38 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Lowry View Post
Is the new Perth Stadium going to be at East Perth right at the Train Yard.
I Hread its going to be 65,000 seats.
But it wont be ready by 2022 so.
2018 USA
2022 Russia
2026 Australia
you are so weird, dude

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyalex View Post
2018 Matthew Lowry
2022 Matthew Lowry
2026 Matthew Lowry
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 04:20 AM   #277
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I would love to bitch slap the **** out of Matthew. His lists are beyond a joke.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 04:41 AM   #278
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FFA almost pulled out of Cup bid
MICHAEL LYNCH
May 31, 2010

http://www.smh.com.au/world-cup-2010...0530-wnh7.html

JOHANNESBURG: Football Federation Australia and the Federal Government came close to abandoning Australia's campaign to host the World Cup because of the AFL's ''outrageous'' demands, a source close to the bid has told the Herald.

As talks continued earlier this month in the lead-up to the May 14 deadline for confirming the application, Australian football's governing body and their Canberra supporters had virtually given up on reaching an agreement with the AFL and were prepared to shelve the bid, the anonymous source said.

''It got to the point where it didn't seem there was much point, and the federal government had agreed with the FFA that we might not go on with the bid,'' he said. ''There were some outrageous demands from left field by the AFL.''

In the end, the parties agreed on a truce of sorts and the bid to host either the 2018 or 2022 World Cups - which has been underwritten by more than $45 million in taxpayer funds - was confirmed when the bid book was submitted to FIFA on time at a high-profile handover featuring FFA chairman Frank Lowy, FFA boss Ben Buckley and Federal Sports Minister Kate Ellis.

While discussions with the National Rugby League and the Australian Rugby Union had been robust, those with the AFL seemed acrimonious at best, and poisonous at worst.

The code, dominant in Australia's southern and western states, but a development sport in NSW and Queensland, had played hardball throughout negotiations, with arguments raging over stadium availability and whether or not the AFL would be allowed to stage games during the World Cup period should Australia's bid succeed.

Another source was disappointed at the lack of support the Victorian Government had given the FFA in its discussions with AFL chief Andrew Demetriou - who has proved himself a formidable negotiator - and his team during the tense months leading up to the deadline.

He said that such was the opposition from AFL powerbrokers in the Victorian capital that the FFA had even considered changing the bid so that no games would be scheduled in the state.

Under the deal that was hammered out, Victoria would get games if the bid succeeded, but far fewer than NSW, where there were more venues and less opposition from other codes.

Etihad Stadium will not accommodate any World Cup games, with stadium boss Ian Collins ruling out its availability for the tournament.

It would instead host AFL games.

Victorian games would be played at the MCG and an upgraded Skilled Stadium in Geelong, which would require millions of dollars to bring it up to a capacity of 44,000. NSW would get games at Stadium Australia, Sydney Football Stadium, Newcastle Stadium and a new rectangular venue at Blacktown. Canberra would also play host.

The escalating rows over ground availability and the opposition of the AFL has led some within the game to even question what sort of legacy would be left for football given the hundreds of millions of dollars that are being spent on infrastructure upgrades for venues synonymous with other sports.

The AFL would be a particular beneficiary, with massive sums required for upgrades to Adelaide Oval and for the development of a new stadium in Perth.

However, most believe the net gain for football would outweigh the leg-up for the other codes, as football would receive 12 years worth of mounting media exposure and significantly increased investment from corporate sponsors and backers. It could also do the thing that worries the AFL most: turn more of our elite young athletes to football.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 04:43 AM   #279
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ALF and the Victorian Government have done their utmost best to destroy this bid.
Im sure FIFA will see it for what it is..
A local domestic Football competition scared shitless on what a Football World Cup may do to their own code.

ALF is a disgrace to this country.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 05:07 AM   #280
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Yeah but ExSydney, as the commissioner of the AFL, that is pretty much his job. Soccer is only going to get bigger, and he has a duty to protect his sport. The United States is the only other country in the world where there would possibly be an issue over competing sports - yet that is resolved by the fact that a WC would be in the NFL off season.

Australia is a unique case as you would well know. A WC is a kick in the guts to all other sports singlehandedly. While I want to see soccer become number 1 (and I'm confident it will do that by the end of this century regardless of whether we get it or not), I can also understand why the AFL is being myopic.
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