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Old December 8th, 2005, 04:32 AM   #41
mad_nick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palal
Most cars in the US get delivered on trailers and a connection with live freight tracks means that FRA needs to approve the cars' crashworthiness, which is a pain in the behind.
Are you sure PATH is subject to FRA regulations though, as far as I know, PATH cars are as light-weight as NYCT subway cars.
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Old December 8th, 2005, 04:38 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_nick
Are you sure PATH is subject to FRA regulations though, as far as I know, PATH cars are as light-weight as NYCT subway cars.
http://www.nycsubway.org/nyc/path/
"PATH is subject to FRA regulations since the line has a connection with the Amtrak Mainline near Harrison Station."
FRA is complaining about one person train operation on the new trains........
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Old December 8th, 2005, 05:23 AM   #43
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^ But the cars hardly comply with FRA regulations, their too light-weight. Anyways, they should really be able to get a special dispensation since there's no freight traffic on the PATH tracks. There are other examples where FRA causes alot of headaches, the LIRR for instance has to use relatively heavyweight cars, even though they use a modern signal system on a system with very little freight traffic making a collision very unlikely. And of course Acela has to use extremely overweight cars because of these regulations. I think the FRA is paid off by the oil, car and freight rail industries, they keep making up all these ridiculous regulations to make it more expensive to run passenger rail.
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Old December 8th, 2005, 05:33 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_nick
^ But the cars hardly comply with FRA regulations, their too light-weight. Anyways, they should really be able to get a special dispensation since there's no freight traffic on the PATH tracks. There are other examples where FRA causes alot of headaches, the LIRR for instance has to use relatively heavyweight cars, even though they use a modern signal system on a system with very little freight traffic making a collision very unlikely. And of course Acela has to use extremely overweight cars because of these regulations. I think the FRA is paid off by the oil, car and freight rail industries, they keep making up all these ridiculous regulations to make it more expensive to run passenger rail.
Yes.
http://www.ebbc.org/rail/fra.html
This is a very good article about how the FRA kills attempts at railroads in soo many ways. A good argument is that while the FRA attempts to rationalize the tough crash standards on acela by saying that a freight collision could result, the fact is that increasing the weight of acela trains increases their cost which means higher fares which in return gives people more incentive to drive, where the fatality rates are so many times higher than on trains. A good read if you want to be annoyed at the FRA (or already are)
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Old December 8th, 2005, 05:50 AM   #45
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^ The Acela brakes began to crack because of the excess weight that existed only because of the FRA regulations.
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Old December 8th, 2005, 05:52 AM   #46
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Yeah I've read that article before, this is the article I read about the LIRR having overweight cars as I stated in the above post:

The situation is particularly absurd when one looks at the Long Island Commuter Railroad (LIRR) in New York City, which has no freight traffic and a modern, automatic train control system to prevent collisions. Technically, it is still a freight railroad subject to FRA rules. Thus, the new M-7 railcars purchased by the New York MTA weigh an astonishing 125,000 lbs -- twice the weight of a non-FRA compliant BART car on the off-chance an LIRR might collide with a 100-ton coal train in Manhattan.
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Old December 8th, 2005, 11:01 AM   #47
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We'll have to go through this pain in California if we ever build our HSR.
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Old December 31st, 2005, 07:25 PM   #48
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Old January 1st, 2006, 01:08 AM   #49
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^ nice pics!
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Old January 1st, 2006, 01:10 AM   #50
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Nice pics
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Old January 1st, 2006, 01:34 AM   #51
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agreed
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Old January 2nd, 2006, 11:49 AM   #52
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awesome pics.

I am interested in the developmental and bureaucratic side of this:

I understand that the New York/New Jersey port authority was used as it was an existing interstate transportation entity, that would facilitate the organization of a such a complex system, in legal terms, IIUC - a subway that goes between two states.

Am I right, or is this a commercial venture of the Port Authority, i.e. the PATH is making money?

Another question - is there a possibility of extending the PATH deeper into New Jersey? are there such plans?
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Old January 2nd, 2006, 07:40 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azazel
awesome pics.

I am interested in the developmental and bureaucratic side of this:

I understand that the New York/New Jersey port authority was used as it was an existing interstate transportation entity, that would facilitate the organization of a such a complex system, in legal terms, IIUC - a subway that goes between two states.

Am I right, or is this a commercial venture of the Port Authority, i.e. the PATH is making money?
The PATH was originally an independent commercial system called the Hudson-Manhattan Railroad, and commonly reffered to as the "Hudson Tubes." The System went into service in 1904 and was meant to transport people from the national railroad terminals in NJ to Manhattan. After the RR companies were able to open terminals in Manhattan, the NJ terminals began to close, and by the late 50s, the Hudson Tubes were almost useless, and the system went bankrput. The Port Authority then took over and renamed the system the "Port Authority Trans-Hudson Railroad" or PATH. The current system is a semi-commerical venture, and as far as I know, it does make money for the PA.
Quote:
Another question - is there a possibility of extending the PATH deeper into New Jersey? are there such plans?
Back in the day, there were plans to extend it to Newark Airport, but that got caught up in crazy beauracracy and never went much past the drawing board.
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Old December 23rd, 2006, 08:22 AM   #54
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New York Rail Tunnels Vulnerable to Bomb Attack

New York rail tunnels seen as vulnerable- report

WASHINGTON, Dec 22 (Reuters) - An analysis done for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey says commuter train tunnels under the Hudson River are more vulnerable to a bomb attack than previously thought, The New York Times reported on Thursday.

The analysis revises critical aspects of an assessment given the agency last spring, making clear that the PATH tunnels stretching across the Hudson riverbed are structurally more fragile than first thought, the paper said in an article on its Web site.

The New York Times said it had received a draft summary of the most recent analysis from a government official concerned about what the official felt was a lack of action.

The latest analysis indicates it would take only six minutes for one of the PATH system's four tunnels to flood if a significant bomb were detonated, the official was quoted as saying.

The official told the newspaper that the Port Authority had received the new findings three weeks ago and had yet to share the information with the governors of New York and New Jersey, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg or law enforcement agencies.

A Port Authority spokesman declined to answer specific questions about the analysis or with whom it had been share, the Times said.

"If we believed in any way that passengers were in danger, we'd close the system," spokesman Marc La Vorgna said. "That would happen immediately."

The spokesman said the Port Authority had taken steps in recent weeks to increase PATH security but he refused to to say what had prompted the actions, the Times reported.
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Old December 23rd, 2006, 09:28 AM   #55
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Let's see if someone beside the extremist fundies takes notice of this.

Protecting the homeland my ass. Sure let's por hundreds o billions into Iraq when nation's #1 target gets left like a ******* sitting duck and cities such as @#[email protected]# Louisville get homeland security money.....



Rant over........
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Old December 23rd, 2006, 03:28 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
... the PATH tunnels stretching across the Hudson riverbed are structurally more fragile than first thought...

The latest analysis indicates it would take only six minutes for one of the PATH system's four tunnels to flood if a significant bomb were detonated, the official was quoted as saying. ...
I always wonder why details like these are being made publicly available. They just might inspire terrorists.
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Old December 24th, 2006, 03:24 PM   #57
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We can be more optimistic. The fact that this information is now widely available will mean the fix will be implemented at an even quicker speed.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 06:29 PM   #58
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Hope NY/NJPA won't come up with a propsal on seraching every passenger in eveyr vehicle crossing these cross-river structures for bombs.
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Old April 4th, 2007, 05:28 PM   #59
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NJ PATH Expansion service to inner New Jersey and Staten Island

i am thinking of a plan for PATH (Port Attionty Trans Husdon) to connect it to further into new Jersey where there is no rail service and also to connect it to staten island as well to connect it to St George ferry terminal where it will connect to the staten island Railway as well also it can go further into new jersey as well

note i misspelled it sorry about that
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Old April 4th, 2007, 05:32 PM   #60
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i mean it would be cool that finally a rail service connects to staten island to new jersey and i am thinking Path can do it also path can go to the areas in New Jersey elevated like the Miami Metrorail and such it would be a second system to new jerserians and also staten islanders as a pride and courage of great mode of transportation

also the stations for the new Path rail services will have park and ride stations but it will serve areas where theres no rail service kind of a New Jersey Metrorail system

considering as well as the massive transportation construction projects going around the New York and New Jersey Metro area

1. East Side Rail Access
2. Trans hudson Express Tunnel
3. Second Avenue Subway
4. AirTrain to Lower Manhanttan and also to la guida airport
5. Path extensions like i said before
6. hudson bergan light rail extensions
7. WTC Transportation hub
8. the new penn station
9. Fulton Transit hub
10. Light Rail in New York City
11. Bus Rapid Transit in New York City
12. a whole other construction projects
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