NCR Surface Transportation Thread

[Abhishek901]

Keep the DTC buses clean, this is the advise of Delhi chief minister Sheila Dikshit who flagged off a new fleet of over 100 low-floor buses here today.

"We have to keep it (buses) clean. We have to showcase (them) for the people who come to see the Commonwealth Games. It calls for a responsibility by both DTC and people who use it," she said at a function at India Gate lawns here.

Flagging off 107 new buses, including 30 AC ones, she said that no one will now see passengers hanging on the foot-boards.

"Our priority is to serve the population of Delhi. The introduction of these buses is part of preparation for the 2010 Games. We are increasing the number of buses," she said.

She said the national capital is moving ahead and the introduction of these buses is a sign of progressing Delhi.

Delhi Transport Minister Arvinder Singh Lovely said the drivers and conductors of these buses will not be just drivers and conductors but "ambassadors of the country".

He said the government is in the process of phasing out blue-line buses out of Delhi roads soon. Not only are we facing the challenge of the CWG but we also have a responsibility towards Delhi."

Naresh Kumar, Managing Director of DTC said, "apart from a frequent inspection, we will improve the behaviour of our drivers, conductors and expect the public to do the same."

Delhi Transport Corporation currently has 3,559 CNG buses. Around 3,125 low-floor buses are expected to be inducted by March 2010.

Times of India

[Abhishek901]

Originally Posted by Advait

It is not just the initial higher cost but operating the AC that contributes to keeping the costs higher. Slower the traffic, higher the AC operating costs for the same fare collected.

There are people in the country who switch to bicycle transport whenever there is increase in bus-ticket fares above a certain price even for non-AC buses. It is their numbers among the current passengers which guides the decision to operate AC buses. Still cities like Delhi might be in a better position to operate a 100% AC-buses fleet.

Though Delhi has one of highest per capita income in the country but that does not means that Delhi does not has economically weaker sections (EWS) of the society. For those who can pay more already have other options (taxis, autos, metro and most importantly the personal vehicles). 100% AC buses would mean selectively weeding out EWS from the city. As the country develops, we may see 100% AC buses down the line but we are not ready for that now.

[Abhishek901]

Delhi Transport Corporation (DTC) seems to be on a fast track to modernisation. While nearly 200 buses are to be added to the existing fleet by March next year, the entire fleet is going to be fitted with global positioning system (GPS).

A pre-bid meeting was called on Tuesday where over 30 companies willing to run the service showed up. Interestingly, the tender now is just for 5,000 buses as against the earlier plan for 11,000 as corporatisation has been put on hold.

The GPS service, expected to be operational by the year end, is aimed at making the buses more commuter friendly before the 2010 Games. DTC plans to connect its entire fleet to a centralised GPS-powered control room through which officials will be able to check the exact location of every bus real time. The facility will also track if buses are stopping at the designated stops, overspeeding and adhering to the time table.

The system will later be integrated with a passenger information system (PIS) which will inform passengers about approaching bus stops through announcements and LED display boards. For those at bus stops, digital boards will tell the exact location of a particular bus and the time it will take to reach a bus stop along its route.

The new tracking system will be implemented in 5,000 DTC buses to start with, which will include the new low-floor fleet. There is a provision to include private buses and other public service vehicles, taking the total number of buses to about 11,000 by 2011.

On Tuesday, a pre-bid meeting was held to answer queries of prospective operators. "More than 30 companies participated in the meeting. We plan to end the selection process by this month and the rollout will start 15 days after that. The operator would be given a fortnight to get the buses ready,'' said RK Verma, transport commissioner. The bids close on October 8.

The bidders also appeared optimistic, even though they felt that the time given to prepare the bid was too little. Said Tarun Tripathi, whose firm installed GPS systems on BEST buses in Mumbai and also Gujarat: "It is a complicated project and the time to prepare the proposal is too short. Also, it is tough to get one player who has expertise in product technicals, implementation and experience. Maybe the government should select consortium to do this so that the best of all can be brought together.''

At present, about 100 DTC buses are fitted with GPS. They all ply on the BRT corridor between Ambedkar Nagar and Moolchand. The control room for this has been created at the Delhi Integrated Multi-Modal Transit System (DIMTS) office at ISBT Kashmere Gate.

Times of India

[Abhishek901]

Hindustan Times

[Abhishek901]

These Ashoka Leyland buses look better than Tata's starbus, atleast from the front.

[Abhishek901]

Indian Express

[Abhishek901]

Finally, some good news regarding low-floor buses. On Sunday, 107 low-floor buses maximum in a single lot so far were added to DTC fleet, increasing the number of total DTC buses plying on city roads to 6,500.

The new buses, said sources, will be mostly pressed into service in the BRT corridor, bringing relief to thousands of commuters who use these routes. Commuters in other part of the city will have to wait till March next year to get better frequency of low-floor buses. The government hopes to increase the number of low-floor buses to 3,125 by end of March.

Commissioning the new buses, chief minister Sheila Dikshit said many more such vehicles are needed. "London has 10,000 buses and for 1.6 crore population, we need to have more of such buses. We saw this dream 3-4 years ago, but there were design related issues. We rectified them and brought these buses,'' she said.

The CM claimed a big fleet of modern buses was a sign of "Delhi marching ahead'' but stressed "the people should have a sense of responsibility towards these vehicles and maintain them properly''. "Treat DTC buses as you treat your own car. For visitors, local buses are the first impression of the city. Keep them clean. For us, the priority is to shift two-wheeler and car users to buses,'' Dikshit said.

Transport minister Arvinder Singh Lovely termed increase in the fleet of DTC buses a "new revolution in city's transport system''. "There is no alternate to DTC as far as public transport in Delhi is concerned. This would also save Delhiites from Blueline buses,'' Lovely added.

Sources in the DTC said 83 buses of the new fleet would ply on three routes in the BRT corridor. Currently, low-floor buses plying on route No 419, 423 and 522 make around 731 trips per day. With new buses, the number would increase to 1036 trips per day.

DTC officials said that earlier the corporation was diverting buses from three depots Sukhdev Vihar, Mayapuri and Subhash Palace to serve commuters on the BRT corridor. But now a new depot has been started at Ambedkar Nagar and it would mean saving time and fuel. It would also free up a few buses that, said sources, would be diverted to other routes in the capital.

With these 107 buses, the number of AC buses on Delhi roads has increased to 55 and non-AC buses to 708. DTC managing director Naresh Kumar said the power of ACs in the new buses has been increased to bring maximum comfort to the passengers. Dikshit on Sunday also asked the transport department to explore the possibility of special tourist buses and double-decker buses on select routes.

Times of India

3800-odd + 107 = 6500 !!
Excellent reporting

[Abhishek901]

Hindustan Times

[a_niranjan]

Originally Posted by Abhishek901

AC buses are 2.5 times more expensive. Everybody cannot afford that. These are not taxis. Buses are supposed to be the cheapest means of transportation for common man.

Boss, I appreciate the issue of affordability, price of daal, chawal etc ...

The point is that the cost of buses is x1.2 while the fare is x2.5 ... is that justified in terms of cost of operations? Someone said that it indeed is but did not back it up with figures ...

So, pardon me for suspecting that this is a hare-brained system keeping with the tiered class system in India ...

if poor folks can't afford AC, why don't we start non-AC metro trains also?

[Abhishek901]

Originally Posted by a_niranjan

Boss, I appreciate the issue of affordability, price of daal, chawal etc ...

The point is that the cost of buses is x1.2 while the fare is x2.5 ... is that justified in terms of cost of operations? Someone said that it indeed is but did not back it up with figures ...

So, pardon me for suspecting that this is a hare-brained system keeping with the tiered class system in India ...

if poor folks can't afford AC, why don't we start non-AC metro trains also?

And people will be choked to death in the air tight (almost) trains in the dark tunnels. To prevent this, we should remove the doors to let air come inside like local trains. And then we will see people hanging on the doors and falling from viaducts on the roads.

Regarding operational costs, AFAIK the AC buses consume almost twice the fuel as compared to non-AC buses. Also higher price of AC buses is good for everybody. The profits generated from AC buses can be used to subsidize the losses generated by non-AC buses. Here both parties will be happy; poor get reliable transport at less price and those who can pay get better service at higher price. That's what we call cross-subsidization. We see that daily in our lives like huge difference b/w prices of diesel and petrol despite same production costs, and even airlines.

[Abhishek901]

All taxis, including call centre cabs plying in the National Capital Region (NCR), will soon have to switch over to CNG mode. Environment Pollution Control Authority (EPCA) chairman Bhure Lal said the common transportation agreement among constituent states under the NCR mandates the arrangement, and it would be implemented after elections in Haryana.

"The common agreement is not only aimed at promoting seamless movement of taxis and auto-rickshaws across the region but also mandating use of green fuel. This would have happened by now, had there been no state election. We will expedite the process. All commercial cabs, which form the public transport system, will have to use CNG,'' he said.

According to rough estimates, approximately 10,000 cabs, primarily carrying BPO employees, operate daily on NCR roads and criss-cross the capital. Each vehicle covers nearly 300 km per day using either diesel or petrol. This huge fleet of commercial cabs and autos plying in Delhi's satellite towns is said to cause substantial pollution.

Earlier, the apex court-appointed EPCA had submitted a proposal for converting BPO cabs to CNG and ban on polluting vehicles. However, cab operators maintain that until the availability of CNG is improved in NCR cities, the proposition would serve no purpose. "Already the industry is hit due to economic slowdown. It would add to our woes. In many cases, the transporters even use them for outstation and long distance rentals. Where would we get the CNG to fill the tanks?'' asked owner of a major BPO cab fleet.

Times of India

[Abhishek901]

Gone are the days when students could travel across the city for a paltry amount of Rs 13 per month. Delhi Transport Corporation (DTC) is proposing to increase the cost of its students concessional bus travel pass after several years to Rs 100. The proposal, which is pending with Delhi government, along with the fare revision, is likely to get cleared after Diwali.

The corporation had been incurring huge losses and a major contributor to this are the monthly concession passes. Revenue from bus passes accounts for as much as 30% of the revenue loss for DTC, of which 45% is comprised of the student bus pass. "The new proposal for fare hike in DTC also tackles the losses incurred due to concessional passes, under which the value of the student pass has been revised to Rs 100 from the existing Rs 13. At present, the government provides a subsidy of 97% for every bus trip taken by a student on the monthly concessional pass. Students these days spend much more than the cost of a pass in the canteen each day,'' said a senior official, who didn't want to be quoted.

In the last financial year, the government paid a subsidy of Rs 19 crore towards concessional passes which provide up to 100% subsidies on the basic bus fare. The concessional pass was last revised sometime in the 1960s and even as several proposals were made by DTC to the government in the past, the rate of the concessional pass has not been revised. In 2002, there was also a proposal to do away with the pass and instead, introduce a flat fare of Rs 1 per trip for students. But even that proposal didn't see the light of day.

Times of India

[Abhishek901]

Hindustan Times

[a_niranjan]

Originally Posted by Abhishek901

And people will be choked to death in the air tight (almost) trains in the dark tunnels. To prevent this, we should remove the doors to let air come inside like local trains. And then we will see people hanging on the doors and falling from viaducts on the roads.

Yes, that is how it happens in London ... I have been "choked to death" almost sucking on some air that comes in through the cracks ...

And, oh yes, a very hearty back at ya ... enjoy

Regarding operational costs, AFAIK the AC buses consume almost twice the fuel as compared to non-AC buses. Also higher price of AC buses is good for everybody. The profits generated from AC buses can be used to subsidize the losses generated by non-AC buses.

how very communist of you ... of course, hard working middle class should be bled to subsidize the non-AC class ... wah wah, vive la CPM!

Here both parties will be happy; poor get reliable transport at less price and those who can pay get better service at higher price. That's what we call cross-subsidization.

that's what I call class conscious Indian system ...

it is well within the subsidization powers of the govt. of Delhi to foot the bill for any subsidy involved in a *class-free* bus infra-structure ...

it seems you are used to servants and other privileges and hence don't see the benefit of a class-less transportation system ... no problems.

[a_niranjan]

Originally Posted by Abhishek901

Times of India

brilliant! AC fares stay the same and non-AC are raised ... pretty soon AC and non-AC should become the same ...

Abhishek901 claims a factor x2 in fuel consumption with no data ... I seriously doubt it.

[Abhishek901]

Originally Posted by a_niranjan

how very communist of you ... of course, hard working middle class should be bled to subsidize the non-AC class ... wah wah, vive la CPM!

First of all, I am anti-communist. And this is not communism. This is plain economics dear. If poor get a cheaper means to travel, their productivity will rise which will lead to higher growth, thus benefiting both rich and poor in long run. If you feel this is communism, then you should also think about taxes in same way. Some of tax paid by rich go to the poor (various schemes run by govt.) which helps in increasing their workforce participation and productivity and thus helping whole of the country. Do you think that we should not pay tax then ?

[a_niranjan]

Originally Posted by Abhishek901

First of all, I am anti-communist. And this is not communism. This is plain economics dear. If poor get a cheaper means to travel, their productivity will rise which will lead to higher growth, thus benefiting both rich and poor in long run. If you feel this is communism, then you should also think about taxes in same way. Some of tax paid by rich go to the poor (various schemes run by govt.) which helps in increasing their workforce participation and productivity and thus helping whole of the country. Do you think that we should not pay tax then ?

this will get cut short by admins if you take it too far off-topic, dear. There is nothing like "plain economics" ... there are various models in economics and yours is one of them.

This discussion was about bus fares ... and your model is to subsidize non-AC by fleecing the AC crowd. It is not about taxation. Are you suggesting that riding a bus in India is a cause for taxation? Please elaborate on this economic model. Should sitting on a park bench be taxed? Perhaps, with a tiered tax system with bird-pooped benches paying less and getting subsidized by clean bench-sitters? What else?

IMO, Delhi Metro made a giant leap by introducing a classless system in India. It has leveled the playing field with rich and poor rubbing shoulders together for a small part of each day. Other systems should emulate it.

[Abhishek901]

Hindustan Times

[Abhishek901]

New Ashoka Leyland low floor buses.





Source: Economic Times

[Abhishek901]

Soon, the rickety Delhi Transport Corporation (DTC) diesel bus fleet running on the inter-state routes to Chandigarh, Rajasthan and Himachal Pradesh will give way to state-of-the-art, luxury Volvo buses. The corporation is in the final stages of hiring 10 Volvos buses to revive its inter-state operations. The plan is to see the response and then get more such buses before the Commonwealth Games.

This is the first time the state-run bus service will have hired buses. "As a pilot, the corporation will first get 10 buses. We are in the final stages of procuring the buses and signing agreements with states like Rajasthan and Himachal. The response and the model of operation both need to be tested out. After that, more buses will be added to the fleet,'' said R K Verma, transport commissioner.

Initially, DTC had planned to buy 300 new diesel buses. But the government feels that the outsourcing will work out more economical than buying new buses. This is because the maintenance of diesel buses is expensive. Moreover, hired buses will ensure that the government will only pay for the actual number of kms run by the bus.

The existing diesel bus fleet is very old and over the past 2-3 years, many of them had to be withdrawn from service. At present, there are just about 80 DTC buses plying on inter-state routes. As a result, over 800 inter-state routes are not in use and Delhiites have to rely on buses from other states for the commute.

Even though DTC has got nearly 1,000 new buses, these, officials say can't be put on the inter-state routes as they are low-floor and run on CNG. It is not always available in other states and so refuelling is often a problem.

Times of India


They are not run on inter-state routes just because they are not coaches but low floor buses which are strictly meant for urban purpose only. From where did the issue of CNG comes then. Officials themselves seem to be confused.