Official Coventry Thread 4

[Fernando Partridge]

Originally Posted by CovAD

I think with most cities that there'll be bits you like and other bits you don't. There's bits of Manchester and Brum that I think are really good, but most is rather naff and horrible (Brum especially). London, by and large I'm not impressed with that much. There's a great deal to do and stuff but for some reason it mainly leaves me cold and I don't see why people rave about it so much. Cardiff was starting to look better when I was last there a few years ago, but still a work in progress.

Bradford had some nice buildings but was just totally dead and lifeless. Notts and Sheffield were pretty nice, Leicester and Wolverhampton I was rather indifferent to and MK was just the most sterile, soulless place I've ever been.

I'd like to see Bristol, York and Edinburgh. Liverpool and Glasgow intrigues me as I remember geography at school just being about how utterly depressed they were.

Trouble is I've never really stayed in many of them long enough to get a decent enough feel for them and explore them properly. After a few days in NY I really enjoyed it there despite the fact I usually prefer things quieter and Chicago by the Lake Side was lovely too. Further into the city and outer suburbs weren't overly nice though.

Glasgow & Liverpool....

They are proper cities, despite the supposed depression both have decent independent cultural as well as bar and restaurant scenes. They just feel more city like than some of the others. Both have got some absolutely majestic architecture and both have elements of a grid street plan, the essence of a city for me. I also think that having a major river flowing through helps in terms of population spread.

[skybluecity]

Surprised nobody has mentioned Newcastle. Great place.

Can't stand Birmingham and Leicester, and further down the scale you have wretched places like Sunderland, Middlesbrough and Stoke.

Agree with everything that has been said about Bristol and Liverpool.

No place like Cov though eh?

[NewTroll]

Elonex setting up a factory in Coventry to make tablet computers:

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/201...onex_coventry/

400 jobs... Hi tech industry. I wonder if they'll do software development as well...

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by skybluecity

Surprised nobody has mentioned Newcastle. Great place.

Can't stand Birmingham and Leicester, and further down the scale you have wretched places like Sunderland, Middlesbrough and Stoke.

Agree with everything that has been said about Bristol and Liverpool.

No place like Cov though eh?

Whilst I would hate to live in most of the Brum conurbation - just as I wouldn't like to live in most of Coventry - Brum city centre is fine... The route from the station up to Brindley place is fantastic.

You're right, there's no place like Cov.

Thankfully!

[jonnymoore88]

Stoke is the worst city ever about a billion times worse than Coventry. The city centre has nothing to hold you there for more than 5 mins. It's a disgrace and it's not even represented on this forum.

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by jonnymoore88

Stoke is the worst city ever about a billion times worse than Coventry. The city centre has nothing to hold you there for more than 5 mins. It's a disgrace and it's not even represented on this forum.

I went there once. It just seemed to consist of a shopping mall with a smaller mall with indie shops inside it. That was about 20 years ago. We went there on a school trip to the museum.

[jonnymoore88]

It's almost still the same as that but now with I massive Tesco extra plonked in the city centre with no regard of streets or buildings.

[NewTroll]

Here's an interesting one. The precinct under construction.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/allhail...2466/lightbox/

You can clearly see that the route is open right down to Spon Street and at the bottom is a nice old building. The white building was the bombed remains of the co-op. I've seen other images of this area, and it would have formed a decent urban environment.

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by Fernando Partridge

Glasgow & Liverpool....

They are proper cities, despite the supposed depression both have decent independent cultural as well as bar and restaurant scenes. They just feel more city like than some of the others. Both have got some absolutely majestic architecture and both have elements of a grid street plan, the essence of a city for me. I also think that having a major river flowing through helps in terms of population spread.

I agree. I think the worse thing about Coventry is the lack of street pattern. The whole city centre is dominated by the ring road and its assorted huge junctions and networks of flyovers and underpasses. Just when you start to get to the feeling of being in a city, the ringroad appears, and the townscape just turns into what resembles a motorway junction. The tiny fragments of what it once was are relegated to odd, inaccessible places. The city's urban grid doesn't get going.

Coventry grew wealthy as a medieval city because they put the routes straight through it. When they were building roads in the 18th century, the main route from Holyhead to London passed through the centre of the city and it was a mile long route lined with businesses (You can still see some of the old coaching inns!). The council insisted it go through like this.

Of course, you couldn't do that these days, but was building a inner-city bypass a good idea? (I know it wasn't built as a bypass, but it does seem that this is it's major use these days - it seems to me that the thing was built far too small and has made the city too small to really any use as a distributor.)

[kthulhu]

This may have been noticed already, but there's now a downloadable PDF of the presentation for the £300 redevelopment:

http://www.coventry.gov.uk/downloads...plans_unveiled

It provides a few more details of the new plans, along with an image we've not yet seen - the cinema complex thing which I *think* overlooks Bull Yard (if I can get my bearings right).

I'm now a little warmer towards the idea of the new cinema (which could of course be down to the 'ooh, l00k - sHiNiEs!!' syndrome that inflicts many ) but as has been noted, with the Skydome not far away, will Odeon relocate or will a competing cinema chain be sought? The former seems more likely.

[CovAD]

Originally Posted by kthulhu

This may have been noticed already, but there's now a downloadable PDF of the presentation for the £300 redevelopment:

http://www.coventry.gov.uk/downloads...plans_unveiled

It provides a few more details of the new plans, along with an image we've not yet seen - the cinema complex thing which I *think* overlooks Bull Yard (if I can get my bearings right).

I'm now a little warmer towards the idea of the new cinema (which could of course be down to the 'ooh, l00k - sHiNiEs!!' syndrome that inflicts many ) but as has been noted, with the Skydome not far away, will Odeon relocate or will a competing cinema chain be sought? The former seems more likely.

Thanks for finding that - makes it a lot easier to picture it overall.

It basically keeps the Croft Road - New Union St link of the Jerde plan but do away with all the unnecessary additions.

I find the anchor store position slightly odd, seeing as it's so far from the actual precinct and Broadgate, but it does draw people towards it along Market Way so it makes sense from that perspective. If the plan was to keep the cruciform I think I'd have just let it run through to Greyfriars Road rather than just have it stop abruptly, but at least it's blocked off completely unlike Coventry Point which just sit slap bang in the middle of the passage.

Overall looking at the plan views I still think it would be much better to close off the cruciform completely though, make all the units deeper in the precinct, Hertford St and Corp St/ Queen Vic Road and have one central delivery area incorporating a MSCP. But that's an almost complete rebuild.

Btw. I think you're sig isn't quite right. I don't want you to feel the wrath of the Empire for misquoting them!

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by kthulhu

This may have been noticed already, but there's now a downloadable PDF of the presentation for the £300 redevelopment:

http://www.coventry.gov.uk/downloads...plans_unveiled

It provides a few more details of the new plans, along with an image we've not yet seen - the cinema complex thing which I *think* overlooks Bull Yard (if I can get my bearings right).

I'm now a little warmer towards the idea of the new cinema (which could of course be down to the 'ooh, l00k - sHiNiEs!!' syndrome that inflicts many ) but as has been noted, with the Skydome not far away, will Odeon relocate or will a competing cinema chain be sought? The former seems more likely.

Thanks for that.

It looks better than the current situation, but it also feels as if they've just taken the easy way out. A bit of refurbishment, a few new bits. Mainly two storeys mainly (Despite the guidelines the council produced a few years back in which they complained the city centre was all too low!)...

The pedestrian links are dubious - IKEA plaza is a dead space and traders already complain that there's no footfall. Will people really walk between a supermarket on Bishopgate and the precinct? I have my doubts. I suppose IKEA plaza has buses, but that area is hardly the best place for pedestrian links, is it?

Good riddance to canopies and filled in bridges.

The decision to put a cinema there is very strange. For 20 years people in Coventry have been complaining about the lack of music venue, so when they do a big development like this, what do they do? The easy way out - a cinema. Can two exist in the city centre? I suspect you're right, ODEON will want to move... Or will they? They are currently just off the ringroad, easy to get to, with signage on the city centre's only busy road?!?

I'm sure it'll be an improvement over what is there (The removal of the shitty Bullyard and Shelton square is a good idea! That bit looks good, as does Herford Street.)

I just sometime wonder about these attempts at "links"... When I go to Brum by train I walk from the station to Brindley place to get some food or because I'm going to a show at the Symphony Hall or, if I worked there, going to work.

Why would I park in the precinct and walk down to IKEA Plaza?

Personally, I'd prefer them to improve Corporation Street/Victorian Road and fix up the mistakes they have made. This a major city centre street and it's absolutely disgraceful that it is lined with empty walls.

[Sebadude]

Liking the visuals. Other than Odeon there's only Vue isn't there?

[skybluecity]

I'm still not altogether sure why the timescales are so long. If the council are able to commit several million to public realm works, then I don't see why they can't at least kick-start certain elements of this, for example opening up Hertford Street and improving the links with Broadgate, a relatively inexpensive thing to do one would imagine but which will undoubtedly have a positive impact.

I'm somewhat indifferent to all this because a) these are just indicative plans which don't tell us a great deal and b) the thought that nothing is going to happen for another 3 years is just so thoroughly depressing that I can't bring myself to be interested.

I understand the private finance is not there for big features, but why can we not start now and make small and gradual changes (working to an overall masterplan) and develop the area organically over time, rather than want to do everything in one go and then no doubt bail out half way through when they realise nobody is interested in occupying the units (see BP and Phoenix Initiative).

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by CovAD

Thanks for finding that - makes it a lot easier to picture it overall.

It basically keeps the Croft Road - New Union St link of the Jerde plan but do away with all the unnecessary additions.

I find the anchor store position slightly odd, seeing as it's so far from the actual precinct and Broadgate, but it does draw people towards it along Market Way so it makes sense from that perspective. If the plan was to keep the cruciform I think I'd have just let it run through to Greyfriars Road rather than just have it stop abruptly, but at least it's blocked off completely unlike Coventry Point which just sit slap bang in the middle of the passage.

Overall looking at the plan views I still think it would be much better to close off the cruciform completely though, make all the units deeper in the precinct, Hertford St and Corp St/ Queen Vic Road and have one central delivery area incorporating a MSCP. But that's an almost complete rebuild.

Btw. I think you're sig isn't quite right. I don't want you to feel the wrath of the Empire for misquoting them!

I think the anchor store position makes sense... Mainly to draw people down there. Might improve footfall from all directions.

By deeper units do you mean ones that stretch from Corporation Street right through to the precinct? I think this would be a good idea - Corporation Street should be Coventry's main street, lined with businesses and taller buildings. IMHO.

So... after moving leisure OUT of the precinct, they are no trying to move it back INTO the precinct... There used to be a cinema up on Hertford Street!

What if, though:

- Odeon moves to the new cinema complex
- Debehams move to the new Anchor store.

[kthulhu]

You are right about the music venue Newtroll - my guess is they're picking something that is known to be popular and virtually guaranteed to make money from the get-go - hence the cinema. Perhaps a music/multi-purpose large venue is the next step, once the city centre is made to be more attractive to visitors and footfall increases. A mighty big assumption of course!

I see all of this as 'baby steps' to be honest. Sensible is the order of the day, designed to appeal to potential developers as a plan that can be delivered without too many tricky obstacles to overcome, and presented in such an inoffensive way so as not to appear too wayward. Personally, I can cope with the simplicity of it all, as long as the buildings themselves are of a quality design and construction. Which level of relative should I bet?

And CovAD - I took the quote for my sig from Family Guy

[CovAD]

Originally Posted by NewTroll

The decision to put a cinema there is very strange. For 20 years people in Coventry have been complaining about the lack of music venue, so when they do a big development like this, what do they do? The easy way out - a cinema. Can two exist in the city centre? I suspect you're right, ODEON will want to move... Or will they? They are currently just off the ringroad, easy to get to, with signage on the city centre's only busy road?!?

I think they'd be mad to move. OK, the new site is along an area which is likely to see more passing footfall, but where they are they've got a MSCP attached directly to the cinema. This one wouldn't have any parking by the looks of it.

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by skybluecity

I'm still not altogether sure why the timescales are so long. If the council are able to commit several million to public realm works, then I don't see why they can't at least kick-start certain elements of this, for example opening up Hertford Street and improving the links with Broadgate, a relatively inexpensive thing to do one would imagine but which will undoubtedly have a positive impact.

I'm somewhat indifferent to all this because a) these are just indicative plans which don't tell us a great deal and b) the thought that nothing is going to happen for another 3 years is just so thoroughly depressing that I can't bring myself to be interested.

I understand the private finance is not there for big features, but why can we not start now and make small and gradual changes (working to an overall masterplan) and develop the area organically over time, rather than want to do everything in one go and then no doubt bail out half way through when they realise nobody is interested in occupying the units (see BP and Phoenix Initiative).

I think that's why I'm indifferent... I guess if they don't have people signed up for the units, they won't even start it.

Would organic growth be like this: there's an area with a concentration of businesses that attract people already, so other businesses would move into the surrounding area and form a cluster. The routes leading into this area then take advantage of the footfall and start to boom... Ideally somewhere with traffic and easy car access and pedestrian access?

This is sort-of happened in a 'mini-way' in Earlsdon, and I suspect if it was possible, people would be converting the houses down Albany road into shop fronts/bars/offices/businesses.

[CovAD]

Originally Posted by NewTroll

By deeper units do you mean ones that stretch from Corporation Street right through to the precinct? I think this would be a good idea - Corporation Street should be Coventry's main street, lined with businesses and taller buildings. IMHO.

Kind of, yes. The ones on the corner of the precinct and Corp St definitely would. Large buildings that would would be used as both anchor stores and a gateway. By deeper I mainly mean they'd stretch further back from the precinct walkway/Corp St etc than the current units. Then you could either have a larger floor area with the same size frontage as now, or a smaller frontage whilst maintaining the same space as now. Basically I'm advocating the removal of the cruciform to reduce the delivery areas from two to one to allow more overall space for actual buildings.

The MSCP would be a bit like the Barracks insofar as it'd be hidden behind all the shop units, and would use the delivery area access roads to save space. It wouldn't be visible from any of the roads or the Precinct so you don't get any blank frontages like the current car park.

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by Sebadude

Liking the visuals. Other than Odeon there's only Vue isn't there?

Showcase cinemas (They opened up a huge one in Leicester city centre)
Apollo (Independent - something like this would be good, but there's one in Leamington)
AMC - small chain
Cineworld - they are planning more cinemas, apparently.
Empire (17 cinemas)
Picturehouse - art cinema. No chance in Coventry, and Warwick Uni Arts centre probably has this sewn up locally.
Vue - 69 cinémas
Everyman - small chain, currently looking to expand.