Official Coventry Thread 4

[CovAD]

Originally Posted by skybluecity

I agree Dr P. No issues with the paving at all. Quite like it actually. The mixed colouring works for me.

Each to their own I guess. Personally if someone laid a patio for me (which is essentially what it is) I'd be fuming it looked like it was made from completely different materials so soon after. For me it just looks messy (but then people do think I'm borderline OCD)

[NewTroll]

Ironminging square will look just the same as everywhere else in a few years time. It just needs time for the locals to lay down a layer of tobacco stained phlegm, chewing gum, vomit stains and fat stains.

This city is beginning to baffle me. Where have all the people gone? Is every town/city suffering the same? Friday night and it was deserted. Unnaturally so. Saturday afternoon and the precinct is somewhat empty...

How do the businesses on Spon Street survive?

[Sebadude]

I was in town yesterday and it was packed. Daytime is fine. It's evenings when the centre gets deserted, but that happens with precincts everywhere.

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by Sebadude

I was in town yesterday and it was packed. Daytime is fine. It's evenings when the centre gets deserted, but that happens with precincts everywhere.

It most certainly wasn't "packed" in the morning or up until 1 o'clock. I don't think I've seen Coventry's precinct packed for about 10 years. Market Way and Smithford way were virtually empty. The only people seemed to be in the upper/lower precinct.

I wasn't in the precinct on Friday night. I walked across the city centre at around 9:00 and virtually every bar/pub was empty, especially those around the Bullyard and on the High Street. Around midnight it was equally deserted.

Then again, at 3.30 a pint in Browns, I'm not surprised people are staying at home.

[Sebadude]

Sorry I disagree. I was there and it was packed, certainly no less busy than usual, though obviously not as busy as Christmas shopping time. Stop being so negative all the time, it's tiresome! :P

[oxo]

So what if Coventry was packed? Is footfall meant to be read like a barometer measuring the degree to which a city has succeeded? No. For example the 1970’s Bull Ring was often packed or Bangladesh is packed but that doesn’t make it a successful city at any level. It’s a doss-hole.

The Bishop Gate’s un-ambitious supermarket design would be OK for a suburban store in Wyken or Cheylesmore for example, but not in the centre of Cov in an area crying out for something dynamic and innovative to be built, not something with about as much wow factor as Cathedral Lanes.

For instance, it could have a roof garden serving as a viewing platform with outdoor café, part of it could also be built over a 100 metre stretch of the St. Nicholas ringroad to open up the area to the canal with easy access.

I am surprised that some of the sad people on this thread can get interested in this project, let alone excited.

Best to leave the Bishop St. area as a rookery for now until a decent plan is made. The city can afford to demand more instead of blindly accepting any rubbish.

[NewTroll]

I agree, oxo.

[Sebadude]

If only you two doom-mongerers worked for the council eh!

[Sebadude]

In all fairness though I think the council should take the first steps in a comprehensive plan to address the strangulation effect of the ring road - either by building right up to it (as with Severn Trent), breaching it (as with Friargate) or finding other ways to make roads flow more freely.

This is something that only the council can lead so it would be good to see that this is on their agenda as a dedicated project rather than falling in place with other things such as friargate... which has been trundling on for how many years now!?!

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by Sebadude

In all fairness though I think the council should take the first steps in a comprehensive plan to address the strangulation effect of the ring road - either by building right up to it (as with Severn Trent), breaching it (as with Friargate) or finding other ways to make roads flow more freely.

This is something that only the council can lead so it would be good to see that this is on their agenda as a dedicated project rather than falling in place with other things such as friargate... which has been trundling on for how many years now!?!

Friargate (Or the idea of a business district around the station) was part of the ten year Coventry Development Plan (Which runs out this year, and has been almost completely unrealised.) which was put to comment back in 1997 or thereabouts. I still have a copy somewhere. It was very ambitious, and included an arts complex where Belgrade Plaza is.

But I agree anyway. All these silly little bits and pieces of plans that get half built or half occupied are not really improving matters. No matter how much the car apologists bang on about how great the ringroad is, it's been a disaster for the city centre, and I believe they knew the effects it would have. Surely commerce in city centres thrives on busy roads? Coventry has no busy roads, either by car or pedestrian...

It's just disappointing that with all the things Coventry lacks that other cities have, the best we get is another bloody supermarket. That's one thing Coventry isn't lacking!

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by Sebadude

If only you two doom-mongerers worked for the council eh!

Pulling Coventry out of decline is something the council can't do, neither can politicians. They can try, but it's not really proven to be that effective... As we've seen.

It wasn't politicians who ceated the medieval boom town, and it wasn't politicians who created the post-industrial boom city. These things happen organically. A good city with a wide skills base and wide social base will always do better as it will be able to adapt . A city based on a single industry is going to stagnate and struggle to compete...

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by skybluecity

I've looked at the details of the Bishop´s Street proposal and I fail to see how anyone can draw any meaningful conclusions. It is an outline application anyway, they never tell us a huge amount. I'm staggered that some are objecting to the idea of a ring-road frontage - no what we really want are blank walls and service areas eh?

Delighted with this development. I assumed this area would remain an eyesore for years to come, so the fact that there is a development of this scale in the pipeline is tremendous. Supermarket for the city centre - great. A good addition.

I'm not objecting to the ring road frontage. I think it's baffling to have a main entrance in a spot that is only accessible to a local population (In one of the city's poorest wards) via a bridge over a dual carriageway - and if you'd read the plans, you'd see that the retail report is very dubious and contradictory and that a large chunk of this development will in fact be a service area and a BLANK WALL facing the ringroad! Not to mention a long frontage up Bishop Street that will have nothing in it apart from supermarket logos and another one along Tower Street that will just be supermarket frontage!

I'm glad you're delighted with another supermarket in this city. It's about the only thing Coventry isn't lacking.

[CovAD]

Originally Posted by NewTroll

Pulling Coventry out of decline is something the council can't do, neither can politicians. They can try, but it's not really proven to be that effective... As we've seen.

It wasn't politicians who ceated the medieval boom town, and it wasn't politicians who created the post-industrial boom city. These things happen organically. A good city with a wide skills base and wide social base will always do better as it will be able to adapt . A city based on a single industry is going to stagnate and struggle to compete...

I think politicians can help. Take HS2 for example. If instead of just using it to meet existing demand, they could use it to manipulate that demand and help cities that are struggling - adding regeneration to its bow. Businesses would follow the infrastrucutre, kind of like it did with the railways and canals.

So Coventry gets the station instead of Brum, Bradford instead of leeds etc.

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by skybluecity

Occupancy rates in Coventry hotels are actually quite high. Couldn't get my friends booked in the Ramada last October as they were fully booked.

A huge amount of business is done in and around Coventry, but you already know that surely? Started a new job recently and guess where the national training course was being held - here, for no other reason than it's a central location and despite the fact the company is based in Swindon. Birmingham Aiport - is closer to Coventry City Centre than Birmingham, so too the NEC. There is plenty of demand for Coventry hotels, hence the reason why they keep building them I guess.

Simple economics anyway. Supply and demand. There are consultantcies in the hotel industry who charge a fortune for feasibility and site studies, and if they are telling developers and hotel groups there is demand then I guess that there probably is.

There's a huge difference between the Travel Lodge/Premier Inns and a Radisson with a large conference centre. Demand for "hotels" doesn't necessary cover them all, and I too have struggled to get rooms for people locally - but we didn't want anything 4*, and never would. The current "Premier Inn" type of things are more than suitable.

There seems to be this idea that because Coventry lacks something, there's demand for it. Perhaps it lacks these things because the demand isn't there. The developer has even been quoted as saying that they can't get funding because the economics don't add up. Simple economics?

Haven't you noticed that Coventry is generally unable to attract the more upmarket business sector? Whether that's shops, bars, restaurants, hotels and other businesses. That's supply and demand.

I'd have loved to see that Radisson going up, but I'm not really surprised they are struggling. Maybe this year, eh?

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by CovAD

I think politicians can help. Take HS2 for example. If instead of just using it to meet existing demand, they could use it to manipulate that demand and help cities that are struggling - adding regeneration to its bow. Businesses would follow the infrastrucutre, kind of like it did with the railways and canals.

So Coventry gets the station instead of Brum, Bradford instead of leeds etc.

Businesses go to where the skills are. Cities struggle because they lack the skills-base to attract business.

Of course Labour were very good at creating growth... until they ran out of money and couldn't think of any new government departments to invent!

[NewTroll]

Originally Posted by morestoreysplease

I agree with the above. What Coventry needs to do is to advertise itself (and it already does) more and more as a destination for NEC visitors, stating it's in Warwickshire, also home to Warwick and Stratford. Why shouldn't visitors wanting to see the Bard's home town not want to stay at a larger hotel based in Coventry. Some Cov forumers constantly do their city down - it's time to change the record. I'm proud of what Brum, the Black Country and Coventry offer as an option to the traditional tourist local hotspots.

Edit - the Sky Blue city needs to adopt some blue sky thinking!!

My argument isn't about hotels, but about the stalled proposal for a 4* Radisson Hotel... There are plenty of hotels in Coventry, and I'm sure a few people do stay here and visit surrounding towns, but it's about whether there's enough people willing to pay a lot of money to stay in Coventry to do so.

Radisson in Coventry was announced in May 2006.

[CovAD]

Originally Posted by NewTroll

Businesses go to where the skills are. Cities struggle because they lack the skills-base to attract business.

Of course Labour were very good at creating growth... until they ran out of money and couldn't think of any new government departments to invent!

People also move to go to where the work is. More so for the lesser skilled jobs that Coventry grew out of but if the incentives for earnings are there people will move, or at least commute. You provide better infrastructure and helped with cheaper land prices than the current big cities, the incentives for businesses to move start to add up.

How many people commute into London for work? The people with the skills often live further out but the businesses don't move do they?

With two unis - one world renowned for its design school and the other one of the top unis in the country - the potential to create highly skilled people is here.

Of course providing more desirable housing rather than the constant call solely for social housing would go a long way too. I think that area next to the canal basin opposite Electric Wharf would be excellent for a development of low-density large detached housing with spacious gardens, integrated parking etc. Following on from the eco houses, couldn't we have the first eco-friendly estate, with each house having to have solar/photovoltaic/turbines etc.? there's a lot of wealthy people who'd want in on that bandwagon.

[Fernando Partridge]

Originally Posted by CovAD

People also move to go to where the work is. More so for the lesser skilled jobs that Coventry grew out of but if the incentives for earnings are there people will move, or at least commute. You provide better infrastructure and helped with cheaper land prices than the current big cities, the incentives for businesses to move start to add up.

How many people commute into London for work? The people with the skills often live further out but the businesses don't move do they?

With two unis - one world renowned for its design school and the other one of the top unis in the country - the potential to create highly skilled people is here.

Of course providing more desirable housing rather than the constant call solely for social housing would go a long way too. I think that area next to the canal basin opposite Electric Wharf would be excellent for a development of low-density large detached housing with spacious gardens, integrated parking etc. Following on from the eco houses, couldn't we have the first eco-friendly estate, with each house having to have solar/photovoltaic/turbines etc.? there's a lot of wealthy people who'd want in on that bandwagon.

Why would any developer build housing of that description in that location?

Coventry has its fair share of decent sized new build developments, they are all on the outskirts of the city, as historically is always the case with residential developments wherever you go.

[NewTroll]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/new...2746-28330952/

Not sure I really understand how they are going to put in two surface level crossings here. Isn't the ringroad here a collection of flyovers plus a deep cutting with the ringroad in it?

Why not just do a proper job instead of wasting more money on half measures?

I'd hardly call the route from the station to the city centre very good, either. The station itself is surrounded by a dreary empty square, and there's four lanes of ringroad and assorted flyovers that dominate the park... what little there is of it.

[We-Are-Borg-1987]

The station area is truly dire atm, but Friargate could bring some logic to it. My concern with that crossing is that it could be lethal as some drivers who are new to the area (or locals) may speed through it. Theres a crossing by the TGI fridays roundabout at Binley where cars often don't stop, they are not doing it on purpose, they are just not paying attention. Thats the problem with crossings on fast roads. However, I still think the crossing on the ring road is generally good, they just need to be clever about the design.

I think the park area has potential, espcially when its extended towards the Bull Yard as it will kind of 'flow' into the city centre.