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Old November 1st, 2009, 09:56 PM   #41
Eddard Stark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates#1fan View Post
That isn’t what I mean, the layout is far from Ancient, what I am talking about are the Monuments, government structures, etc almost all of theme are in styles that borrow heavily from ancient styles.
The Lincoln Memorial, Jefferson Memorial, Washington Monument, etc, all obviously borrow from ancient designs.
They actually don't.

They borrow from 18th century contemporary Neoclassical style which yes is loosely (let me stress again loosely) inspired on greek/roman architecture while being a very french/british affair. Actually is inspired on what 18th century men believed to be (from the ruins) the greek/roman (ie classical) style.

Now we know romans and greeks painted their temples of all colours, heavily decorating them. Far from being "minimilastic" as the Neoclassicals thought them to be they were "baroque", colourful and impressive

I hope I made myself clear

Anyway it's like saying that the british parliament (19th century) is a gothic building. It's loosely inspired to Gothic, but surely it is not
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Old November 1st, 2009, 10:41 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
They actually don't.

They borrow from 18th century contemporary Neoclassical style which yes is loosely (let me stress again loosely) inspired on greek/roman architecture while being a very french/british affair. Actually is inspired on what 18th century men believed to be (from the ruins) the greek/roman (ie classical) style.
I wouldn’t say the Lincoln Memorial is loosely based on Greek/Roman architecture, but I could see that with the US Capitol and White House.
Quote:

Now we know romans and greeks painted their temples of all colours, heavily decorating them. Far from being "minimilastic" as the Neoclassicals thought them to be they were "baroque", colourful and impressive
Yes I’m aware of this, they did the same with statues.
Quote:
I hope I made myself clear
Indeed, thank you for the clarification.
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Old November 2nd, 2009, 03:13 PM   #43
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Hello friends. Sorry I missed a lot of action this weekend.

Well, one can probably say that Palladio is more aligned with the principles of Alberti, and one can argue that they are very different from the mainstream mannerist tradition that dominated Rome at the period leading to High Baroque.

Again, for some of you who might be too defensive: I don't think Rome and Italian architecture needs defending -- the glories of Roman and Italian architecture are obvious enough.

What I object to is the very provincial notion that all of French classical architecture is a poor imitation of Italian models. Nothing can be further from the truth. It smacks of jingoism and poor knowledge of the history and development of Architecture.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 06:16 AM   #44
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What is "original" ... what is a "copy"?

If this is not a country versus country thread, then it is certainly a style versus style thread. Its all very subjective and a matter of personal preference.

Myself, I am completely in agreement with tpe, who expressed his arguments in a cogent, informed, and erudite manner. I personally do NOT like Bernini's proposal for the Louvre and think the French design was far superior. That is my opinion.

The Romans borrowed very heavily from the Hellenistic Greeks. The Romans added their own innovations and inventions as well.

I do not see Renaissance, Baroque, Neo-Classical, or any other kind of architecture as a "copy" or a "rip-off" of an earlier style ... it is not necessarily inferior to the earlier designs. On the contrary, I see architecture as an organic thing ... the later designs were often the more evolved, superior, with greater refinement and elegance. In my personal view, Sir Christopher Wren's Saint Paul's Cathedral in London is far more superb a building than the Pantheon in Rome. This is not to put the Pantheon down, it is a marvel of ancient engineering and a truly great building. Both have columned porticoes and domes. The Pantheon is much older and can be "alleged" to be the original, but Saint Paul's is much more complex and magnificent ... the I would argue the first is the crude "rough draft" and the latter structure was the perfected and sublime realization of the idea of a domed structure with a columned portico.

...And these are MY views on the subject!

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Old November 3rd, 2009, 07:41 AM   #45
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With all do respect Philly Bud but Wren's St. Paul Cathedral is in my opinion an ugly building both form it's exterior and interior.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 09:36 AM   #46
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MMMMNNNnnnn?????? Roman???????? I don't see much Roman architecture but Greeks updo's. However it seems that the US is madly in love with Roman architecture, if any.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 01:35 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly Bud View Post
If this is not a country versus country thread, then it is certainly a style versus style thread. Its all very subjective and a matter of personal preference.

Myself, I am completely in agreement with tpe, who expressed his arguments in a cogent, informed, and erudite manner. I personally do NOT like Bernini's proposal for the Louvre and think the French design was far superior. That is my opinion.

The Romans borrowed very heavily from the Hellenistic Greeks. The Romans added their own innovations and inventions as well.

I do not see Renaissance, Baroque, Neo-Classical, or any other kind of architecture as a "copy" or a "rip-off" of an earlier style ... it is not necessarily inferior to the earlier designs. On the contrary, I see architecture as an organic thing ... the later designs were often the more evolved, superior, with greater refinement and elegance. In my personal view, Sir Christopher Wren's Saint Paul's Cathedral in London is far more superb a building than the Pantheon in Rome. This is not to put the Pantheon down, it is a marvel of ancient engineering and a truly great building. Both have columned porticoes and domes. The Pantheon is much older and can be "alleged" to be the original, but Saint Paul's is much more complex and magnificent ... the I would argue the first is the crude "rough draft" and the latter structure was the perfected and sublime realization of the idea of a domed structure with a columned portico.

...And these are MY views on the subject!

I see you point and agree to most of it.

However I think you may be wrong about the Pantheon. It does represent an unmatched milestone in architecture which triggered no evolutive mimicry but just rather perfect "digital" copies (for instance the Rotunda of the University of Virginia), whereas St. Paul's Cathedral is one of one hundred -or one thousand- very fine "analogic" domes evolved from Brunelleschi's prototype of Santa Maria del Fiore, Florence: drum - dome - lantern. What's amazing about the Pantheon -and its best replicas- is the interior, which is indeed a globe inscribed in a room as shown below



To say that Wren's dome is the best one is arguable of course, if you just compare it to other renaissance type domes. As a personal note, my favourite are perhaps San Lorenzo's and the Holy Shroud's domes in Turin by Guarino Guarini - the former having some precedent in moorish architecture of Spain.

Besides, no matter what's the technical state of the art, when starting to build a domed masterpiece. We know few, if any, of the building techinques of the Pantheon and few also of Brunelleschi's dome. For sure both used a lot of know-how and insights that went lost thorugh the ages, and now it's a riddle to find out back such techniques.
If that be a matter of engineering, any modern skyscraper would win hands down. Still oversized architecture is often dull and non emotional like a pointless teenage who's-the-biggest-dick contest, while +300 ft. domes sprout from the floor where humans live and walk, having something to tell and show us.

Last edited by vittorio tauber; November 3rd, 2009 at 05:06 PM.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 05:32 PM   #48
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Interesting exchange on the Pantheon and St. Paul's.

Frankly, I don't mind both.

The latter is more elliptical (with an inner, middle, and outer dome) which harkens back to Michelangelo's famous indecision in the designs for the dome of St. Peter's (i.e., elliptical versus spherical.) Wren at St. Paul's indeed solves the difficulty of supporting the lantern in an ingenious way, certainly learning from the difficulties that were inevitably met at St. Peter's.

The Pantheon is of course a much earlier solution to the problem (relying on the thickness of the walls to support the coffered dome and having an oculus instead of a lantern).

It had been noted by some that there is a strong affinity with Wren's designs for the dome of St. Paul's and Mansart's dome at the Invalides in Paris.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/884134

One can indeed argue that Wren drew from the font of both French and Italian antecedents in his designs for the principal cathedral church of London.


Last edited by tpe; November 3rd, 2009 at 06:44 PM.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 06:31 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravaggio View Post
With all do respect Philly Bud but Wren's St. Paul Cathedral is in my opinion an ugly building both form it's exterior and interior.
Are you kidding?
St. Paul is beautiful!
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 06:32 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by DeNeza401 View Post
MMMMNNNnnnn?????? Roman???????? I don't see much Roman architecture but Greeks updo's. However it seems that the US is madly in love with Roman architecture, if any.
We were, now we are faddish and keep putting crap up.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 07:29 PM   #51
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The North has always been a fertile ground for the development of a Neoclassical idiom that synthesized both Italian and French tendencies. A wonderful example of this is the Palace at Pavlovsk in Russia.

Created for the Empress Catherine by the London-born Scots architect Charles Cameron, it is in the Greek Revival style then current in both France and England, but exhibiting the marked influence of Palladio. Other noted neoclassical architects such as the Italians Vincenzo Brenna (Cameron's student and successor), Giacomo Quarenghi, Carlo di Giovanni Rossi, the French Jean-François Thomas de Thomon, and the Russian Andrey Voronikhin contributed over the years to the final realization of this palace.

However, one cannot discount the contribution of the Empress Catherine herself, who was knowledgable (though not always receptive) to the ideas of the Enlightenment and who was the founder of this palace.



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Old November 3rd, 2009, 07:36 PM   #52
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A great unrealized vision of Neoclassical splendor: the plans for the Palace of Haga, by the French architect Louis Jean Desprez, for Gustav III of Sweden. The plan was scrapped after the King's assassination.



The model:



Front elevation and ground plan (piano nobile):


Last edited by tpe; November 3rd, 2009 at 07:44 PM.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 08:41 PM   #53
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Berlin was one of the most important European centres of Classicism. Lots and lots of early and (back then) cutting egde-buildings.
(Some are Greek influenced though)

Neue Wache (New Guardhouse)
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/infactoweb/686903038/

Brandenburg Gate
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ganymed...49918/sizes/l/

Schauspielhaus (Concert Hall)
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobindrums/3059958038/

Deutscher Dom (German Cathedral)
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mkuhn/65654853/

Gendarmenmarkt
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3858290909/

Altes Museum (Old Museum)
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/radunzel/2633485046/

Alte Nationalgalerie (Old National Gallery)
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/143976612/

Neues Museum (New Museum)
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4069770034/

State Opera
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/grindcrank/253248269/

St. Hedwig Cathedral
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/asmythie/3640447344/

Altes Palais (Old Palace)
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/profilacktisch/3788431216/

Mausoleum
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikedwyer/513734872/

Gorgeous interieur...
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/infactoweb/2455703789/

Last edited by Tiaren; November 3rd, 2009 at 08:50 PM.
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Old November 3rd, 2009, 09:07 PM   #54
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Some italian Pantheon-inspired architectures

The "original" Pantheon (AD around 125), Rome

image hosted on flickr


Replicas (all 19th century neoclassic style)

Church of Staglieno Cemetery, Genoa



San Carlo al Corso, Milan



San Francesco di Paola, Naples Probably the most imposing



Canova's Temple (roman catholic church), Possagno (near Treviso)



Gran Madre di Dio, Turin



Muasoleo della Bela Rosin, Turin

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Old November 3rd, 2009, 10:11 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Berlin was one of the most important European centres of Classicism. Lots and lots of early and (back then) cutting egde-buildings.
(Some are Greek influenced though)
Very true!

And some of the greatest proponents of Neoclassicism are also German. The wonderful and mysterious Johann Joachim Winckelmann comes immediately to mind.




Last edited by tpe; November 3rd, 2009 at 10:40 PM.
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Old November 4th, 2009, 06:59 AM   #56
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hh11 how about you stfu. All of your posts have been crap and filled with nonsense.
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Old November 4th, 2009, 01:49 PM   #57
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What the...? Were drunk typing this? XD
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Old November 5th, 2009, 05:49 AM   #58
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Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception - Springfield, Illinois, USA




Chapel of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity - Santa Paula, California, USA
Completed in 2009
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image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

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image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

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image hosted on flickr

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Old November 5th, 2009, 07:51 AM   #59
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Quote:
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Are you kidding?
St. Paul is beautiful!
No I'am not kidding I think it's a dreadful building.I have to stress though that this is my opinion about St. Paul's Cathedral and I don't expect everyone to agree with me.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 07:59 AM   #60
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Great Pics Oakridge those Catholic churches are really lovely.It's good to see old architectural styles make a come back in Catholic churches after many years of experimenting with modern architecture.As a consequence,many Catholic churches are now very ugly and architecturally insignificant.
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