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Old November 5th, 2009, 03:54 PM   #61
socrates#1fan
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Beautiful California church! I love it!
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Old November 5th, 2009, 04:50 PM   #62
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Tha Santa Paula Chapel is fine but the design has few if any fantasy.

The nave is taken from Santo Spirito, Florence. The Dome is a loan from Pazzi Chapel, Florence Again. The Canopy is a 1:3 replica of Bernini's baldachin in St. Peter's Basilica, Rome, and that barrel vault is a topic of venitian early renaissance architecture.

I'm not saying the abovementioned features have been a source of inspiration, I'm arguing the Chapel of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity is thoroughly a copy-to-stick exercise. Good quality, but that architect had to dare something more IMHO. Not kitsch though.

The exterior is happier a synthesis.


image hosted on flickr
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Old November 5th, 2009, 05:00 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by vittorio tauber View Post
Tha Santa Paula Chapel is fine but the design has few if any fantasy.

The nave is taken from Santo Spirito, Florence. The Dome is a loan from Pazzi Chapel, Florence Again. The Canopy is a 1:3 replica of Bernini's baldachin in St. Peter's Basilica, Rome, and that barrel vault is a topic of venitian early renaissance architecture.

I'm not saying the abovementioned features have been a source of inspiration, I'm arguing the Chapel of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity is thoroughly a copy-to-stick exercise. Good quality, but that architect had to dare something more IMHO. Not kitsch though.

The exterior is happier a synthesis.
A very valid criticism. I admit that the borrowings from Santo Spirito and from the St. Peter's baldacchino are much too direct for my liking. "copy-to-stick" is a good way of putting it.

You see it a lot in the US. One example comes to mind: the apse of the Church of St. Clement in Chicago. I need not tell you from which Roman apse it was copied.

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Old November 5th, 2009, 05:04 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Philly Bud View Post
The Romans borrowed very heavily from the Hellenistic Greeks. The Romans added their own innovations and inventions as well.

I do not see Renaissance, Baroque, Neo-Classical, or any other kind of architecture as a "copy" or a "rip-off" of an earlier style ... it is not necessarily inferior to the earlier designs. ............


I agree. It is very dogmatic to say that era "X" is an era of achievements and era "Y" is an era of copies. Great buildings have been built throught the centuries, and different eras can be credited for different achievements.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 07:06 PM   #65
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Old November 5th, 2009, 09:13 PM   #66
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Oh my!
San Clemente's mosaic in Rome is simply the best christian work of art ever IMO, as I've already stated in the italian forum (disagreement followed).
However the Church of St. Clement in Chicago looks pretty too.

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Old November 5th, 2009, 09:26 PM   #67
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Oh my!
San Clemente's mosaic in Rome is simply the best christian work of art ever IMO, as I've already stated in the italian forum (disagreement followed).
However the Church of St. Clement in Chicago looks pretty too.
Well, they should have selected a different design for the apse. I do think it was too direct an imitiation -- or rather, it IS an EXACT copy, down to the latin verse inscription at the base.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 09:42 PM   #68
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And yes, I do love that apse mosaic. I don't know if I would call it my favorite. But it is certainly one of my favorites. The apse mosaic of Sant'Apollinare in Classe is also magnificent.



And so is the Lateran's.




And the beautiful one in Cefalu.



As far as mosaics in general, I admit that my 2 greatest favorites are in Constantinple.

The first is the stupendous Deisis at Hagia Sophia:

image hosted on flickr



The second one is actually a mosaic cyle: the one in the Church of the Chora. I have special affection for the one showing Theodore Metochites the Donor.

image hosted on flickr


The last 2 are Byzantine, but not totally out of topic. They are late mosaics, when the influence of Western art (particularly Italian) started to be felt in Constantinople.
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Old November 5th, 2009, 11:38 PM   #69
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Both yours are great too, being two masterpieces of the so-called palaiologian renaissance.
As for the lateran mosaic, too bad it was heavily restored in the 19th century when the apse was rebuilt backward.

My second favourite christian mosaic in Rome is Santa Pudenziana's, albeit improperly framed in a later age:

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Old November 5th, 2009, 11:53 PM   #70
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Both yours are great too, being two masterpieces of the so-called palaiologian renaissance.
As for the lateran mosaic, too bad it was heavily restored in the 19th century when the apse was rebuilt backward.

My second favourite christian mosaic in Rome is Santa Pudenziana's, albeit improperly framed in a later age:

Exactly! I was about to say the same thing. But at least we get an idea of the grandeur of the original, especially in the bust of Christ.

I love the very classical theme of Santa Pudenziana. Christ as a "second" Socrates.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 02:17 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by vittorio tauber View Post
Tha Santa Paula Chapel is fine but the design has few if any fantasy.

The nave is taken from Santo Spirito, Florence. The Dome is a loan from Pazzi Chapel, Florence Again. The Canopy is a 1:3 replica of Bernini's baldachin in St. Peter's Basilica, Rome, and that barrel vault is a topic of venitian early renaissance architecture.

I'm not saying the abovementioned features have been a source of inspiration, I'm arguing the Chapel of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity is thoroughly a copy-to-stick exercise. Good quality, but that architect had to dare something more IMHO. Not kitsch though.

The exterior is happier a synthesis.

]
Of course, they took features of multiple structures to create it.
The fact that they mixed these all together makes the structure interesting.
The idea that everything has to be unique and daring isn't a great one.
Sometimes a structure calls to be unique, other times using other styles works perfectly.

One way they could be daring is to blow the back wall out and cover the space with glass.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 03:53 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by socrates#1fan View Post
Of course, they took features of multiple structures to create it.
The fact that they mixed these all together makes the structure interesting.
The idea that everything has to be unique and daring isn't a great one.
Sometimes a structure calls to be unique, other times using other styles works perfectly.

One way they could be daring is to blow the back wall out and cover the space with glass.
Wait! I didn' say Santa Paula's chapel sucks.
I just pointed out that the interior sounds like a déjà-vu at the first glimpse, and the architect could have blended styles and features in a more eclectic way like he did in the exterior IMHO.
I don't think criticism is a question of Yes/No, Black/White.
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Old November 6th, 2009, 04:00 PM   #73
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One can argue that architecturally, perhaps the most influential church in Rome is probably the Gesu. As the mother church of the Jesuits, it was the prototype of countless mission churches throughout the world.

The Gesu:

image hosted on flickr


Well, some people note the striking resemblance of Maderno's Santa Susanna to the much broader facade of the Gesu, and would claim architectural precedence for the former over the latter.

Santa Susanna:

image hosted on flickr
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Old November 6th, 2009, 05:22 PM   #74
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One can argue that architecturally, perhaps the most influential church in Rome is probably the Gesu. As the mother church of the Jesuits, it was the prototype of countless mission churches throughout the world.

The Gesu:

image hosted on flickr


Well, some people note the striking resemblance of Maderno's Santa Susanna to the much broader facade of the Gesu, and would claim architectural precedence for the former over the latter.

Santa Susanna:

image hosted on flickr
So true about the facade.
About the interior, an almost forgotten place in lower Piedmont could be the prototype of the one-nave gesuitic hall of counterreformed churches worldwide.



Quote:
Originally Posted by vittorio tauber View Post
Santa Croce a Bosco Marengo (Alessandria)

Michele Ghislieri became Pope Pius V in 1566: 4 months after his election he got this convent started in his own hometown Bosco (today Bosco Marengo) near Alessandria (Southeast Piedmont).
He died in 1572, the monastery was achieved as late as 1590, designed by Ignazio Danti, helped by Martino Longhi, Giacomo della Porta, Rocco Lurago.
The church was consecrated in the 1570s and is possibly the very first conceived and achieved according to the decrees of the Council of Trento (even before the Gesu church in Rome, which was started in 1568 and consecrated in 1584).
In Pius V's wishes the convent was bound to be the focus of a new town.



The huge "macchina vasariana" (Vasarian Machinery) designed and painted by Giorgio Vasari as it appeared until the beginning of the 18th century. Now the nine paintings are still in situ, but the canopy was dismantled and got lost.



Pope Pius V's tomb (a cenotaph actually, the pope was buried against his will in the sistine chapel in Santa Maria Maggiore, Rome), by Giovanni Antonio Buzzi, 1569-1572.



Wooden choir (Angelo Marini called the Sicilian, help by Giovanni Gargioli), AD 1571. The nave, built in the 1560-70s: first church achieved according to the decrees of Counter-reformation in the whole catholic world.



(Sorry for the bad quality of the pics)
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Old November 6th, 2009, 09:15 PM   #75
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About the interior, an almost forgotten place in lower Piedmont could be the prototype of the one-nave gesuitic hall of counterreformed churches worldwide.
I think especially of churches in Southern Germany and Austria.
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Old November 8th, 2009, 06:51 AM   #76
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The Roman and Austrian architectures look better than the Northern Italian counterparts.
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Old December 2nd, 2009, 05:53 PM   #77
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I like the film gladiator...but I dislike Maximus, am a fan of Commodus, appears with the flower patals falling all over the battle field, and wearing the true white Roman emperor armour, descended from his father, Marcus Aurelius. He's an elite, while Maximus is a brainless silly man, only with mascle. I would do the same, poison the old retard. The Italian design to be the superior and hygenic.
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Old April 5th, 2010, 02:08 PM   #78
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hi

hi
I'm architecture student and I'm working on the Medici palace Please if you have information about this House give me leave. Thank you
This is my email : [email protected]
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