The Abbey Line to be converted to a Tram Train line.

[Zim Flyer]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

They will have to build a shelter for the vehicles at least.

Yep, a site will have to be built and trams ordered. Even if construction was to start immiedately it would be a tight deadline for 2011. I hope I'm wrong but my gut feeling is, that once the planning and tender process (if there is to be one) is complete it will be three years at the earliest before we can go live with this.

Going back to Cle's point about future extensions, I guess the immiedate plan is to get this line up and running, create a brand as it were, make a success of it and then the oppertunity for an extension will come.

[Dazz285]

Hi folks,
got this info from the Abfly news letter today from David Horton..

Introduction; Obviously there is still some uncertainty over some of these issues – apart from anything else, we need to hear from potential operators and do not want to stop them from coming up with the best solution. Taking the questions in order:

Q1I understand we are using the term 'trams' and not 'tram-trains'. Is this correct? Does this scheme bear any relation to the tram-train project in Sheffield?
A1It is proposed that trams are used on the Abbey Line. This is because there is no requirement to operate with heavy rail vehicles on the line, as it is separated from the mainline and therefore trams are quite suitable. Learning from the hard work in Yorkshire will be of some use on this project – but the Yorkshire schemes are more complex and rather different as they are either diesel tram trains running with other heavy rail services or involve electrification of freight lines and running between existing heavy and light rail systems. Trams are, of course, proven technology and therefore lower risk in this context.

Q2 The use of second-hand trams from Europe are inferred in the DfT press release. Does this mean that you intend to buy second-hand or rather adopt an existing design?
A2This will be for the operator – however, the economics will probably mean re-use of existing trams.

Q3 How many trams will you need to operate the service? A3Again this is up to the operator and will depend on frequency, the size of the tram and assumptions about requirements for maintenance and growth in patronage. 3 – 5 seems to be the most likely range.

Q4 Will the trams run off the existing overhead AC electric supply?
A4Once again, up to the operator. It would be possible to have transformers fitted to existing trams to run from the current system (some tram-trains do this and obviously lots of dual voltage EMUs do it too) or the operator could decide that the best way forward is to convert the overhead. The disadvantage of dropping the voltage on the overhead is that it is likely that an additional electrical feed would be required.

Q5 Will platforms have to be lowered or lengthened?
A5 To be confirmed (obviously depends on the vehicle) but initial thoughts are that there should not be a need to have major changes. The platform at Bricket Wood may be extended so that a loop could be installed in the same way as the new Penryn Loop in Cornwall (this design would avoid having two platforms and the issues associated with passengers crossing the track).

Q6 Will there be a passing loop (or two?)
A6There will need to be a loop (unless someone finds a tram that can reduce the running time to under, say, 14 minutes which we very much doubt) – the number and location will depend on the frequency of the service. Assuming 30 minutes, one loop would be required – almost certainly at Bricket Wood. Note that if a higher frequency were required this would probably need two loops at two different locations, ie a loop at Bricket Wood would not help.

Q7 Will signalling be 'line of sight'?
A7Subject to the view of the operator, yes.

Q8 Will serious consideration be given for trams to run later into the evening? A8Yes – depends on costs but it is recognised that the current finish is early compared with many routes.

Q9 Will new stops be considered, e.g. Asda / Sainsburys Garston, Sopwell St Albans and the BRE in Bricket Wood?
A9Not part of the initial proposal – however, much easier to install with a tramway (this line already has a lot of stops for its length).

Q10 Will there have to be a running depot somewhere on the line? Which locations have been considered?
A10This is for the operator to decide.

Q11 What other expected infrastructure works are there? Will the line be closed or kept open for the duration of these works?
A11There does not appear to be a need to have major construction works (other than one or more loops and potentially a small maintenance facility) – there may need to be a service suspension for some of the works to ensure they can be done safely and efficiently – however, this is not expected to be a protracted process.

Q12 When does the 12-week consultation start? Are we expecting a public meeting?
A12Probably towards the end of November. With regard to a meeting, to be decided, though I expect to be at the CRP AGM and ABFLY have suggested a public meeting too.

Q13 I understand the line will be on long lease from Network Rail to HCC. Does this mean that, in the 'nightmare scenario' of a future administration wanting to close the line or scale back the service, the existing protections afforded to heavy rail lines would still apply?
A13All parties are committed to ongoing long term operation of this line. The nature of the statutory or contractual protections is still to be confirmed.

Q14 Do you envisage a wider network, e.g. extensions through Watford / St Albans or to Hatfield?
A14Not part of the initial proposal - as with new stations, this is not included in the proposal we are taking forward at present. However, obviously this is a longer term possibility if there is a local demand.

Q15 Will HCC use this to re-incarnate the CHPTS (Central Herts Passenger Transport Scheme, or rather ‘guided bus’)? In one of the news items on Google, it referred to future running of trams on the roads of St Albans.
A15This is nothing to do with CHPTS and the current proposal is limited to the existing branch line (but see earlier question about potential extensions).

Q16 Is this the end of through running on to the main line aspirations?
A16 There have been no direct trains to London from this line for many years and there is no chance of them restarting as there is no capacity on the line from Watford Junction to London. It is just possible that there will be capacity in the long term (though unlikely) but we do not believe that we should wait for many years with a 45 minute frequency in the hope that this capacity might materialise.

Q17 Any consideration to additional platforms at the Watford Junction or St Albans Abbey ends to facilitate more journeys?
A17 The aim is to increase the frequency of the service and make it more attractive. It would be for the operator to decide whether extra platforms were needed to achieve this – but it is not obvious how additional platforms would facilitate more journeys.

Q18 Any realignment of platform 11 towards 10 at Watford Junction?
A18 This is not part of this project.

Q19Has HCC timed this announcement to soften the bad news regarding support for the rail freight terminal?
A19No.

Hope this helps??

[WatcherZero]

Lol most of my common sense born out. But again the 2011 timescale looks totally unrealistic. a 12 week consultation then a search for an operator, finding second hand trams, construction of loops and yards all by that date!?

[heatonparkincakes]

The only timetable for this is the date of the next election.

After wards I am sure it will erm drift and drift..........................

[Lucky Lukas]

I gather from this thread this is perceived as a vote-winning stratagem. I guess that must be the answer to my question which was this: why on earth is this a priority?

[Jon10]

A suggestion:

Is the current service operated by a class 313?

If so, by 2011 it would be the only one left, because all the others on the Overground system will have gone (to National Express, to augment the Shenfield service, I think).

THAT is possibly the reason for the "2011 deadline" - the inability to stable and maintain the existing train.

[WatcherZero]

Previously a 313 now a 321/4

[TommyMogan]

Originally Posted by Zim Flyer

Lord Adonis (the best transport minister this country has had in a very very long time) has announced today that the railway line between Watford and St Albans is to become a Tram Train Line from 2011.

http://www.stalbansreview.co.uk/news...become_a_tram/

I really hope this comes of, for if it does this project could breath life into similar Branch lines up and down the country including the Blackpool South line from Preston.

What is the advantage of using a perfectly good rail line and putting trams on it? Why not stick to trains like the Tyne&Wear light trains? This sound gimiky.

This sounds potitical. Trams must be a vote winning buzz word.

[WatcherZero]

Trams are cheaper to build, cost less to run and produce less wear and tear on tracks.

[DjU]

Originally Posted by Jon10

Is the current service operated by a class 313?

No, its run by a Class 321/4 - one of 7 that have been held back by London Midland (the 350's that replaced the 321's can't be used on the Abbey line)

Originally Posted by Jon10

If so, by 2011 it would be the only one left, because all the others on the Overground system will have gone (to National Express, to augment the Shenfield service, I think).

The 313's aren't going to National Express, they are going to Southern to release 377 on the Coastway
AND
To FCC, to strengthen the Great Northern services (although FCC have apparently said they don't them as they don't want to pay for them)

[John Williams]

Wouldn't be be more sensible to put Dockland Light Rail type of train on the existing tracks. Do these tram also run on the streets? Or or they just going cheapo and putting trams on a rail line. What about the platform heights?

[WatcherZero]

Will initially run on existing rail infrastructure with the construction of a passing loop to cheaper tram rather than heavy rail standards. Being tram it allows them to expand to street running in Albans later if they want. Will be 2 trams an hour off peak and 3 trams an hour peak.

Network Rails mad at Adonis for announcing it before they did the feasability study, but the current understanding is that with the former heavy rail subsidy and savings from cheaper signals they can convert it within its existing operating budget. The current franchise owner is happy to give it up as a "non-core route" (read non profitable), ownership isnt decided yet but is expected to be Network Rail signing a long term lease to the council who owns it but has a contractor run it.

[Kettledrum]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

Will initially run on existing rail infrastructure with the construction of a passing loop to cheaper tram rather than heavy rail standards. Being tram it allows them to expand to street running in Albans later if they want. Will be 2 trams an hour off peak and 3 trams an hour peak.

Network Rails mad at Adonis for announcing it before they did the feasability study, but the current understanding is that with the former heavy rail subsidy and savings from cheaper signals they can convert it within its existing operating budget. The current franchise owner is happy to give it up as a "non-core route" (read non profitable), ownership isnt decided yet but is expected to be Network Rail signing a long term lease to the council who owns it but has a contractor run it.

Just wondering why the current operator is happy to give the route up so easily - OK the current operations on the route may or may not have been making a loss, but if the tram trains are going to be such a big success, what was stopping the current operator from running trams on the route?

[streetquark]

Originally Posted by Kettledrum

Just wondering why the current operator is happy to give the route up so easily - OK the current operations on the route may or may not have been making a loss, but if the tram trains are going to be such a big success, what was stopping the current operator from running trams on the route?

Maybe the operator doesn't have the budget to convert the line to a profitable-type operation? Maybe they are too stretched with running their other services and don't really want to put resources into the changes just to get a marginally profitable service? Maybe - and this is a typical problem with the franchise system - they don't want to spend money on it only to lose the franchise later (short-term thinking)?

[kpmarek]

Apparently used trams will be purchased from continental Europe. I wonder where from?

[Rational Plan]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

Will initially run on existing rail infrastructure with the construction of a passing loop to cheaper tram rather than heavy rail standards. Being tram it allows them to expand to street running in Albans later if they want. Will be 2 trams an hour off peak and 3 trams an hour peak.

Network Rails mad at Adonis for announcing it before they did the feasability study, but the current understanding is that with the former heavy rail subsidy and savings from cheaper signals they can convert it within its existing operating budget. The current franchise owner is happy to give it up as a "non-core route" (read non profitable), ownership isnt decided yet but is expected to be Network Rail signing a long term lease to the council who owns it but has a contractor run it.

No doubt Network Rail would have found a way to say that it would cost three times as much and it was therefore be non viable.

[Dothog]

The consultation period starts today and the paper is now on the DfT website.

[RBRJ]

Have your say on St Albans Abbey line tram scheme
15:04 - 09 January 2010
A PUBLIC consultation on plans to transform the Abbey Line into a more frequent tram service was launched this week.

The proposal, which was unveiled by transport secretary Lord Andrew Adonis and Herts County Council (HCC) in October, would provide between two and three trams an hour between St Albans Abbey and Watford Junction, compared to the current 45-minute intervals between trains.

Under the plans, the Department for Transport (DfT) will remove the route from London Midland's franchise and transfer the funds and ownership to HCC.

The operation of the service, which currently carries around 450,000 passengers a year, will then be put out to tender. It was decided that replacing the existing heavy trains with light trams would be the most efficient and cost effective way of increasing frequency along the route.

A number of European tram systems are moving over to low-floor vehicles, freeing up high-floor vehicles with a considerable life left in them which are compatible with the platforms along the Abbey Line.

The infrastructure will remain the same but a passing loop will need to be installed - most likely at Bricket Wood - to allow more than one tram to travel along the line.

Lord Adonis said: "Converting the Abbey Line between St Albans and Watford Junction to tram operation gives us the opportunity to try something new and at the same time deliver a better service for passengers.

"At the moment there is only one service on the line every 45 minutes, but taking a conventional approach and running more trains on the line would be too expensive. So we need to do something different."

HCC leader Robert Gordon said: "We believe that the local county council is best placed to manage what is essentially a local transport facility and welcome the DfT's proposal to devolve responsibility for the line.

"This consultation is an opportunity to make your views known and with your support we can progress this proposal to the next stages. The Abbey Line is a vital local transport link and I encourage local residents and interested groups to comment on the principles presented in this proposal."

The consultation period runs until March 21 and if the proposal succeeds it could be implemented by late 2011.

To comment log onto www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/open/2010-05/ or write with your views to Abbey Line Consultation, Department for Transport, 4/27 Great Minster House, 76 Marsham Street, London, SW1P 4DR.

[RBRJ]

St Albans tram line tender expected this year
Filed 06/01/10

Details of plans to convert the Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey railway branch line have been set out by the Department for Transport.

A consultation on the plans, published this week, envisages train operator London Midland's existing franchise commitment to run services on the line being novated to Hertfordshire County Council, which would become responsible for running services on the converted tram line. Network Rail would continue to own the rail infrastructure and is expected to lease this to the county council which would then sub-let a contract for the maintenance of the track and installation of a new passing loop and any other infrastructure required.

Explaining the logic for converting the line to tram operation transport secretary Andrew Adonis said this approach was the most affordable solution to deliver the best service for passengers. He said extensive work carried out to explore whether an enhanced heavy rail service could be provided on the line, including a new passing loop, had concluded that this was not deliverable.

However, by downgrading the line to tram-only operation, the cost of installing one or two passing loops and associated signalling could be provided for roughly the same budget as the current heavy rail service. Converting the line would be carried out using a Statutory Instrument to be laid before Parliament and would follow a similar approach to that used for the Docklands Light Railway and Manchester Metrolink where the line would be exempted from certain rail licensing and access requirements and closure provisions would be waived so that the line could be converted.

The line is emerging as a showcase project for reducing the cost of relatively lightly used rail lines. Since the launch of the government's Community Rail Strategy in November 2004, ministers have been eager to develop a model that would allow ongoing infrastructure and operating costs to be reduced. However, since then this is the first time the DfT has moved to convert a line in an approach that, if successful, could be replicated for other community rail lines.

Current plans by the DfT envisage at least two trams an hour operating along the Abbey Line compared to the current 45 minute interval weekday train service. Both the DfT and Herts County Council hope that three trams an hour will be possible and services will be able to operate along the line later into the evening.

Second-hand trams from the Continent would be used to provide services. The DfT says a number of high floor vehicles, suitable for stations with platforms, are becoming available as European on-street tram networks replace existing vehicles with low-floor trams. Tickets allowing through travel across Britain's rail network would continue to be available on the new service.

Depending on the outcome of the consultation and the completion of legal and contractual issues, the new service could begin in late 2011. This is also dependent on Network Rail agreeing to transfer control of the line and stations to Hertfordshire County Council on a long-term lease.

A private company is expected to run the trams on behalf of the county county council. According to the DfT: "Depending on the outcome of the consultation, we hope to finalise a specification for the new service which would be put to the market in 2010. Bids from prospective operators would be evaluated during the spring and, assuming that a satisfactory bid is received, contracts would be signed later in the same year."

Although the consultation, which runs until 31 March, does not cover extending the line, the DfT says conversion to tram operation would make it more affordable for Herts County Council to consider extending the line - such as introducing on-street running into St Albans city centre.

The Abbey Line runs six and a half miles from Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey Station. There are intermediate stations at Watford North, Garston, Bricket Wood, How Wood and Park Street and the end to end journey currently takes around 16 minutes. Around 450,000 passengers a year use the service.

Work by transport consultant Mott MacDonald, on behalf of Hertfordshire County Council, has demonstrated that using light rail vehicles ought to allow a more frequent service to be provided within the funding used for the current service.

[WatcherZero]

Consultation response hasnt been published yet but its been approved this week and 4 companies have been shortlisted to run it. Expect a Dft press release soon.

Shortlisted bidders are:
Arriva Abbey Line Ltd.
CAF
National Express
Transdev/Bombadier