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Old June 13th, 2014, 03:31 AM   #181
Erhan
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I meant it will probably only be concrete walls, otherwise they could make the tunnel wider (especially closer to the station) and display the aviation history of Linköping with sculptures/drawing and have parts of planes there...that would be more fun
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Old June 13th, 2014, 10:53 AM   #182
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I meant it will probably only be concrete walls, otherwise they could make the tunnel wider (especially closer to the station) and display the aviation history of Linköping with sculptures/drawing and have parts of planes there...that would be more fun
Not necessarilly. The tunnels of Citytunneln in Malmö turned out to be simply, but nicelly decorated. The new stations have been noticed internationally, too.
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Old June 13th, 2014, 06:52 PM   #183
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Train tracks takes up a lot of valuable space in urban areas. The trend is to place them in tunnels these days - Citytunneln in Malmö, Citybanan in Stockholm, the planned decking over of the train tracks north of the central station in Stockholm and so on. In Uppsala they are even putting the new dubble track in a tunnel under Gamla Uppsala because of cultural heritage issues.
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Old June 13th, 2014, 07:17 PM   #184
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In Uppsala they are even putting the new dubble track in a tunnel under Gamla Uppsala because of cultural heritage issues.
Wow. This I didn't know. How is this project called?
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Old June 13th, 2014, 07:26 PM   #185
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Often the choice is between a station in the city centre reached by a tunnel or no tunnel but a new station on the outskirts of the town. In that case and if finances allow it the first option is preferable.
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Old June 13th, 2014, 09:51 PM   #186
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Wow. This I didn't know. How is this project called?
http://www.trafikverket.se/Privat/Pr...Gamla-Uppsala/
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Old June 14th, 2014, 01:49 AM   #187
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Train tracks takes up a lot of valuable space in urban areas. The trend is to place them in tunnels these days - Citytunneln in Malmö, Citybanan in Stockholm, the planned decking over of the train tracks north of the central station in Stockholm and so on. In Uppsala they are even putting the new dubble track in a tunnel under Gamla Uppsala because of cultural heritage issues.
Indeed, I agree strongly. If space is a premium then underground is definitely the way forward. If the project has the money to do so, I'd not turn down the possibility for the line being underground. Less noise pollution, more space for other uses and nothing screams "big city" and fancy system as much as an underground station in the centre of the city. Assuming the Linköping station would turn people off is a bit odd. Railways tend to be unattractive near city centres, so actually this is probably doing Linköping a favour!
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Old June 14th, 2014, 11:22 AM   #188
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Wow. This I didn't know. How is this project called?
The project is a part of Ostkustbanan, an expansion to dubble tracks between Uppsala and Gävle. This particular stretch was planned in the early 90's but were delayed indefinitely because it cuts straight through the cultural heritage site of Gamla Uppsala, one of the most important archaeological complexes in Sweden, and the finances weren't there for a tunnel at the time. 15 years later the finances were finally worked out, and we archaeologists started working in 2012 in tandem with the construction. It's gonna be finished in 2017.
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Old June 14th, 2014, 03:14 PM   #189
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That's my feeling too, people have had more than enough of pig-headed stupidly structured for-profit deals on parts of the railway operations.
My take on it is that the parts people are tired of is:
1. not enough maintenance to keep existing rails operational. Way too many parts are breaking down and trains ARE derailing.
2. insufficient investment in new capacity.
Fix #1 and people will calm down. Fix both and people will be happy. Most people see a direct connection between the privatization of the rail sector and both issues. I'd say that is part of the reason, especially specifically how it was set up here. Another BIG reason is the merger of the roads authority and the railway authority - it has turned into basically just the roads authority with a new name and the railways are very much low down on Trafikverket's priorities.
The problem with railroad maintenance is not that of a lack of funds for maintenance. Its a lack of funds for maintenance 20 years ago. You cant blaim todays politicians for that. Today the system is so heavily loaded that there arent enough time to maintain it.

You can blaim them for not creating new capacity though. But that is also a matter that takes time.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 03:31 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adde View Post
The project is a part of Ostkustbanan, an expansion to dubble tracks between Uppsala and Gävle. This particular stretch was planned in the early 90's but were delayed indefinitely because it cuts straight through the cultural heritage site of Gamla Uppsala, one of the most important archaeological complexes in Sweden, and the finances weren't there for a tunnel at the time. 15 years later the finances were finally worked out, and we archaeologists started working in 2012 in tandem with the construction. It's gonna be finished in 2017.
That's some great news. Thank you for sharing this interesting information. This project was a surprise to me.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 03:55 AM   #191
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Train tracks takes up a lot of valuable space in urban areas. The trend is to place them in tunnels these days - Citytunneln in Malmö, Citybanan in Stockholm, the planned decking over of the train tracks north of the central station in Stockholm and so on. In Uppsala they are even putting the new dubble track in a tunnel under Gamla Uppsala because of cultural heritage issues.

On the other hand, as a passenger you lose sight of the city you're travelling to/from/through once the rails have been put down. Even if Malmo-Copenhagen was a slower journey than it is now, you traversed and saw much of Malmo when going by the train. Nowadays? Not much of sight as a passenger before the bridge (tunnel, tunnel stations, concrete walls, then outside of the tunnel and after Hylle station the tracks are in a dyke).


Thankfully Citybanan in Stockholm will be built for commuters only. The journey into Stockholm (for intercity passengers, hence long-distance travellers, tourists, first-time visitors etc) would not be as exciting if the view from Arstabron, Gamla Stan or from the north into Stockholm C were abolished from the window. I'd really miss it if it was removed from my sight.


As a side-note Gamla Uppsala is quite far from Uppsala's main train station (just so no one thinks it's about removing the above-ground tracks in downtown Uppsala). Gamla Uppsala is around 5-6 kms away from the city in the outskirts of Uppsala.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 11:24 AM   #192
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True, for a train passenger tunnels are far more boring than looking out over a city. I use the commuter train in Stockholm every day and I feel lucky to be able to look out over Stockholm everyday on my way to work. I'll miss that when Citybanan is finished. At the same time, there's no denying that for everybody else, trains are very loud and takes up a lot of space in a city center. I'd love to get rid of centralbron and the main train tracks through Stockholm. For instance, one of the most atmospheric places in the city, Riddarholmstorget, is basically dead urban space because of those two pieces of infrastructure.

Yes, Gamla Uppsala is a small village just north of Uppsala. My point was that even this "rural" village is getting a tunnel because of cultural heritage concerns.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 01:27 PM   #193
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You don't normally get to see cities from their best side from the train anyway. If tracks are not in a tunnel or in a ditch they tend to run through industrial areas and/or subprime housing areas. It's good to have a train, but not so good to live 20 m from it.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 03:22 PM   #194
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Of course you have a point there, but the journey into Stockholm (Årstaberg - Solna from north to south) is something else. This has of course also to do with topography ( in the case of Stockholm the built-up archipelago, granite rocks, the urban landscape next to the waters etc).


Why would there intrinsically be a problem to live within 20 meters of a track?
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Old June 15th, 2014, 03:44 PM   #195
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Why would there intrinsically be a problem to live within 20 meters of a track?
Noise of course, what else? Apartments and houses directly bordering rail lines tend to be cheaper for that reason, particularly if the station is not right next door either.

Basel is a pretty good looking city, but you don't really see that arriving by train from Zurich. What you go past is a giant marshalling yard, roads, factories, stadium, some suburbs (not the best parts) and only in the last 300 m some city apartment buildings.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 04:31 PM   #196
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Noise and lowered real estate value. Rail-road tracks are long unsightly barriers. These days usually impassable, in the old days dangerous. You get the right side and the wrong side of the tracks, or simply wrong on either side. Removing tracks is often a part of city rejuvenation. Expressways do something similar with cars, but in this case at least you can get away fast (assuming you have a car), while tracks only have disadvantages.

Those near railway stations on the other hand, especially businesses, can reap great benefits. Though notably the real estate value usually isn't all that great in the near vicinity of a station, quite possibly due to a rise in (perceived) crime in that area. Overall a good railway connection increases the value of the town or district.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 04:55 PM   #197
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I think I live in an ideal distance from the train station - about 8 min walking distance.
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Old June 15th, 2014, 10:05 PM   #198
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Of course you have a point there, but the journey into Stockholm (Årstaberg - Solna from north to south) is something else. This has of course also to do with topography ( in the case of Stockholm the built-up archipelago, granite rocks, the urban landscape next to the waters etc).
Stockholm is a bit of an anomaly in that the ride through the city is very scenic. That's usually not the case in most cities. But I do think it comes at a pretty steep price for the city, especially the stretch that severs Gamla Stan from Riddarholmen, and in the area around Tegelbacken. And I'm not so sure Centralbron would have been built as brutally straight through the heart of the city if the train tracks weren't already there to begin with.
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Old June 17th, 2014, 01:17 AM   #199
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Noise of course, what else? Apartments and houses directly bordering rail lines tend to be cheaper for that reason, particularly if the station is not right next door either.
I´d say it depends (freight traffic still sounds a lot, especially when braking) and has a historical background more than practial. Smoke (from steam engines) isn't an issue anymore as it was up to mid20th c., noisy freight more so. However, given how many people live next to a railway line, this should instead be a demand placed upon science and traffic operators ("Give us silent rail traffic!"). However there are not any problems to build well-suited houses in such an enviornment but that should be an issue for the developer and the planning institute giving permission.

If we want cities where people live close to each other, we'll have to accept that many people will have to live near a railway line. Or near a factory, or near a factory near a railway line. Regulations prohibiting this results in sprawl as distances increase.


Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax:
Noise and lowered real estate value. Rail-road tracks are long unsightly barriers. These days usually impassable, in the old days dangerous. You get the right side and the wrong side of the tracks, or simply wrong on either side. Removing tracks is often a part of city rejuvenation. Expressways do something similar with cars, but in this case at least you can get away fast (assuming you have a car), while tracks only have disadvantages.
Certainly a railway line can become a barrier, just like any river with lack of connections between both sides or a broad, congested street. Hence bridges, tunnels, overpasses, underpasses or whatever you have present to overcome this. What's your point?

If we followed your argument, the next 200 years of railway development would be spent on digging urban railways into the ground (not to mention the maintaince costs for these newly buried-down stretches since there's now four sides of the track to take care of, or whynot the lack of investment in the rural areas between the cities... )
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Old June 18th, 2014, 02:01 AM   #200
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HSR in Sweden

Green light for a corridor of Ostlänken bypassing the second largest airport of Stockholm Skavsta. The government should approve this decission by the end of this year.

Klartecken för Ostlänken via Skavsta
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