daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 18th, 2015, 07:18 PM   #321
bolg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 916
Likes (Received): 761

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
SJ need to respond. Their trains are generally pretty poor and they charge the earth for their hopeless levels of service. At least MTR are forcing them to sharpen up. The thing that really needs improving, though, is the quality of the tracks across Sweden. The ride quality here is pretty abysmal at times, and that won't be fixed by nice shiny rolling stock.
I think alot of SJ's routes are being subsidised by a few profitable routes, even though they claim every routes should be profitable. Hopefully they'll cancel some of them. Of course it won't be a popular move, but it needs to be done if train travel seriously wants to compete with aviation, buses and cars.
bolg no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 18th, 2015, 07:21 PM   #322
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,074
Likes (Received): 8794

Quote:
Originally Posted by bolg View Post
I think alot of SJ's routes are being subsidised by a few profitable routes, even though they claim every routes should be profitable. Hopefully they'll cancel some of them. Of course it won't be a popular move, but it needs to be done if train travel seriously wants to compete with aviation, buses and cars.
Or they should be subsidised by local councils/the government to ensure that rail service is kept to these areas. Better that than axing services across the board. That would be a massive step backwards for Sweden.
Svartmetall no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2015, 08:56 PM   #323
Maadeuurija
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tapa
Posts: 1,920
Likes (Received): 532

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Maybe it is just to have an additional powered bogie. No Flirt has motor bogies shared between two cars, so maybe the project doesn't allow them. In this case, the only way to have a third (or also a fourth) motorized bogie in a 5-car train is to build it as two separate sets, but with a gangway on one side of each instead of a cabin.

If it is like NSB's Flirts, its wheel arrangment is B22+B22B. The two parts are likely technically independent, although not allowed to travel alone.
...
makes sense if you think about it... Probably has something to do with the max speed/acceleration of the unit.
Maadeuurija no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2015, 09:19 PM   #324
loefet
Registered User
 
loefet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Göteborg
Posts: 525
Likes (Received): 233

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
When I used SJ's HS service on Göteborg C - Stockholm C line I was stunned by absence of electric sockets on board. I don't know if this is the case for all X2 train sets or I just had bad luck.
I'm pretty sure that there are at least one socket for each seat on the train. But their location is in such a way, that you might not notice them if you don't know they are there.
They are located between the seat cushions at the knee area, you can't really see them, since from above they look like an extension of the flat area between the seats, but if you feel at the front then you will feel a pair of Schuko plugs.

Last edited by loefet; January 18th, 2015 at 09:25 PM.
loefet no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2015, 01:15 PM   #325
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,157
Likes (Received): 274

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maadeuurija View Post
makes sense if you think about it... Probably has something to do with the max speed/acceleration of the unit.
Doesn't make sense to me. All 3 middle cars of the train are different now.
And why not a Jacobs bogie? There are plenty of trains with driven Jacobs bogies around, like Alstoms Coradia and AGV, BR423/425, SLT. The only reason I can come up with is to remain within axle load limits.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2015, 02:12 PM   #326
Maadeuurija
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tapa
Posts: 1,920
Likes (Received): 532

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
Doesn't make sense to me. All 3 middle cars of the train are different now.
And why not a Jacobs bogie? There are plenty of trains with driven Jacobs bogies around, like Alstoms Coradia and AGV, BR423/425, SLT. The only reason I can come up with is to remain within axle load limits.
After some reading:
It's a Stadler thing...to get the Flirt up to 200kph within reasonable time they need a third powered bogie, the Norwegian ones also have the 3rd powered bogie and I would guess that the powered one is a bit bigger so it wouldn't fit as a Jacobs bogie...

from wikipedia about the Norwegian FLIRTs:
Quote:
However, in contrast to previous five-car FLIRTs they will have a third powered bogie giving them a maximum power output of 4,500 kW (6,000 hp) and a top speed of 200 km/h (120 mph).
Maadeuurija no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2015, 07:34 PM   #327
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 766

Stadler has built only regional and special (rack, ...) trains until now, the NSB Flirts (and Westbahn's Kiss) were their first trains faster than 160 km/h. That's maybe why they dont't have powered jackob bogies.

However, the "EC 250" trains ordered by SBB will have them. They will have 11 cars, that is 12 bogies, I suppose at least one third of them powered. More informations canc ertainly be found on Stadler's website.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2015, 07:38 PM   #328
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

The NSB FLIRT also has a 3rd powered bogie in the middle of the train:



Source: Stadler's NSB FLIRT Factsheet
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2015, 09:10 PM   #329
Maadeuurija
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tapa
Posts: 1,920
Likes (Received): 532

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
However, the "EC 250" trains ordered by SBB will have them. They will have 11 cars, that is 12 bogies, I suppose at least one third of them powered. More information can certainly be found on Stadler's website.
The EC250 will have a high floor and 4? powered bogies... But the FLIRTs are still low floor and the powered bogies are indeed a bit bigger than the regular jacobs ones (wheel diameter is 7cm larger for our EMUs) so that might be a cause also ( low-floor wouldn't fit over the powered bogies...)
__________________

loefet liked this post
Maadeuurija no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2015, 08:55 AM   #330
M-NL
Mixed-mode traveller
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,157
Likes (Received): 274

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maadeuurija View Post
I would guess that the powered one is a bit bigger so it wouldn't fit as a Jacobs bogie...
For most FLIRTs that would be the case, because usually they use 860mm wheels for driven axles and 750mm wheels for unpowered axles (which explains the higher floors at the ends). These 200 km/h versions have 920mm wheels on all axles, so height isn't an issue.

4500 kW tends to being overpowered for such a short train (an 8-car ICE2 has 4800kW). However under low adhesion conditions extra driven axles are a huge advantage. I know it's cheaper to make, but this trend towards less driven axles is bad. Under low adhesion conditions these trains can barely accelerate. The Dutch VIRM is a good example of this.

You could argue that Stadler needs to learn how to make bogies, as Alstom, Bombardier, CAF en Siemens have no problems with making them.
I suppose it's a cost thing. Using the same powered bogie as used on the end cars and an unpowered bogie is probably cheaper to make.
__________________
Public transport: Mode of transport that takes to much time to take you from the place you're not currently located, to the place you didn't want to go to, at a time that doesn't really suit you.

Coccodrillo, Maadeuurija liked this post
M-NL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 24th, 2015, 07:58 PM   #331
Qwert
Moderator
 
Qwert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,409
Likes (Received): 2534

Quote:
Originally Posted by loefet View Post
I'm pretty sure that there are at least one socket for each seat on the train. But their location is in such a way, that you might not notice them if you don't know they are there.
They are located between the seat cushions at the knee area, you can't really see them, since from above they look like an extension of the flat area between the seats, but if you feel at the front then you will feel a pair of Schuko plugs.
Thank you, I will try to find them next time.
Qwert no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2015, 11:02 PM   #332
:jax:
Registered User
 
:jax:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Södertälje
Posts: 1,302
Likes (Received): 538

Incidentally, that is one of my least favourite locations for an electrical outlet. I have broken two chargers that way as it is easy, especially for the one at the window seat, to accidentally kick and break whatever is plugged in there.
:jax: no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2015, 03:52 PM   #333
dimlys1994
Moderator
 
dimlys1994's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dniepropetrovsk
Posts: 16,337
Likes (Received): 26126

From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=524

SJ to step up Stockholm – Oslo services
Tuesday, January 27, 2015



SWEDISH national passenger operator SJ has revealed plans for major improvements on the Stockholm – Oslo route with the reintroduction of X2000 tilting trains, an increase in frequency, and dramatically improved journey times

From August 9 SJ will replace the two daily Inter-City services between the Swedish and Norwegian capitals with three X2000 services, reducing the journey time for the 572km trip from 5h 38min to around four-and-a-half hours

...
__________________

Sopomon liked this post
dimlys1994 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2015, 04:55 AM   #334
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

Oh brilliant news! If only Oslo-Bergen could be made faster (not until 2200 quite probably)
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2015, 10:38 AM   #335
Swede
forumer #29
 
Swede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: sol.III.eu.se.08
Posts: 4,213
Likes (Received): 1663

Even Oslo-Stockholm could be made far, far faster if they got the rails and route better. I took that train a few years ago and between Karlstad and Oslo it was real slow going.
__________________
Forumers met so far:
Huopa, Nightsky, Jo, wolkenkrabber, ThisSideofSteinway, jacksom, New Jack City, LeCom, Ellatur, Jan, Dennis, Ace, Bardamu, AtlanticaC5, Ringil, Dysfunctional, stacey, karakhal, ch1le, Hviid, staff, kjetilab, Þróndeimr, queetz, FREKI, sander, Blue Viking, nomels, Mantas, ristov, Rafal_T, khaan, Chilenofuturista, Jonte Myra, safta20, AW, Pas, Jarmo K, IceCheese, Sideshow_Bob, sk, Ingenioren, Ayreonaut, Silver Creations, Hasse78, Svartmetall
Swede no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2015, 11:12 AM   #336
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,747
Likes (Received): 1408

Bird's distance Stockholm-Oslo is 415km, but the connections between these cities are very poor. I did a search and found out that if I want to travel this route today I have to go to Göteborg first and then change train to Oslo from there, which means 7h 22 min of traveltime, at best. At some other times this journey can take up to 13 hours.



Copenhagen on the other hand is 520km away from Stockholm bird's distance. This train takes about 5h 3 min, so the danish capital is much more accesable , although it's located further away.
NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 28th, 2015, 01:41 PM   #337
Swede
forumer #29
 
Swede's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: sol.III.eu.se.08
Posts: 4,213
Likes (Received): 1663

There are direct trains Stockholm-Oslo today too. Like the article states though the trip is longer than the time you have for STH-CPH by 35 minutes and is 38% longer than the straight-line distance between the cities (STH-OSL). The line is old and winding. If it had the same quality as the line Sth-GBG the time might already be something like 4½ hours I guess.
__________________
Forumers met so far:
Huopa, Nightsky, Jo, wolkenkrabber, ThisSideofSteinway, jacksom, New Jack City, LeCom, Ellatur, Jan, Dennis, Ace, Bardamu, AtlanticaC5, Ringil, Dysfunctional, stacey, karakhal, ch1le, Hviid, staff, kjetilab, Þróndeimr, queetz, FREKI, sander, Blue Viking, nomels, Mantas, ristov, Rafal_T, khaan, Chilenofuturista, Jonte Myra, safta20, AW, Pas, Jarmo K, IceCheese, Sideshow_Bob, sk, Ingenioren, Ayreonaut, Silver Creations, Hasse78, Svartmetall
Swede no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 29th, 2015, 10:33 PM   #338
Slartibartfas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 11,595
Likes (Received): 5955

The service Stockholm-Oslo is quite usable. Connections under 6 h make perfectly sense. But I also had the impression that it was pretty slow going in parts. That there is huge potential for improvement shows the fact that they could reduce the travel time by 1 hour just like that. 4 1/2 h are for 572 km really ok I'd say.
__________________
"Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a Titanic success of it.”
Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary, UK
Slartibartfas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 29th, 2015, 11:37 PM   #339
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 766

Two photos of a loco and a driving trailer of an X2000 en route to SOB's Samstagern works:

https://bahnbilder.ch/picture/16531

https://bahnbilder.ch/picture/16532
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2015, 03:59 PM   #340
NordikNerd
Rail & Road traveller
 
NordikNerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Linköping
Posts: 2,747
Likes (Received): 1408

Train 527 Stockholm-Malmö delayed today. It was supposed to leave Linköping at 11 ó clock. 23 min delay is not common, but it happends at times.



NordikNerd no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium