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Old October 7th, 2015, 08:39 AM   #641
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But in an area devoid of people aquiring the needed land to build it at ground level is much cheaper. An elevated railway is a lot more expensive to build, a cost that can be ofset by the fact that you don't need to acquire that much land. But that only applies in densily populated areas.
It also depends on terrain and desired line geometry. An Oslo-Stockholm HSR would have to go through mountains, and that by itself will necessitate tunnels and viaducts.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 09:27 AM   #642
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It also depends on terrain and desired line geometry. An Oslo-Stockholm HSR would have to go through mountains, and that by itself will necessitate tunnels and viaducts.
The area between Oslo and Stockholm isn't that mountainous.

And I think that a Oslo - Göteborg HSR combined with a Stockholm - Göteborg HSR would be a better investment.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 10:29 AM   #643
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The area between Oslo and Stockholm isn't that mountainous.

And I think that a Oslo - Göteborg HSR combined with a Stockholm - Göteborg HSR would be a better investment.
I like the idea of a Stockholm-Oslo HSL, but I seriously doubt it'll happen any time soon. Stockholm-Göteborg will happen first and a Oslo-Göteborg(-Köbenhavn) one will, is my prediction, happen years and years ahead of a direct Oslo-Stockholm one.
As the non-HSL line from Malmö to Oslo is modernised, double tracked and straightened it'll boost traffic quite a bit. I believe as time goes traffic will be going so high that the need for a HSL to relieve congestion on the old lines will be clear.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 02:36 PM   #644
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Not mountainous at all. It got a short hilly (and largely uninhabited and very picturesque) section around the border, thereafter it is undulating, and finally flat along Mälaren.

Cities as a rule grow along the coast, this is where you find large populations, and the West Coast goes fairly straight NNW-SSE. It all makes Gothenburg placed quite hubby relative to Oslo-Stockholm, Stockholm-Malmö, and Malmö-Oslo. For trains that want to cut corners to avoid Gothenburg, Jönköping could be a Gothenburg-free alternative: Stockholm-Jönköping-Halmstad-Malmö and Oslo-Trollhättan-Jönköping-Stockholm.
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Old October 7th, 2015, 02:56 PM   #645
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Speaking of HSR, then Trafikverket just posted this:



Also available in English: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0eKtNtoIfU
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Old October 8th, 2015, 06:24 AM   #646
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The area between Oslo and Stockholm isn't that mountainous.

And I think that a Oslo - Göteborg HSR combined with a Stockholm - Göteborg HSR would be a better investment.
Neither are the Appalachians (and these mountains are part of the same orogeny, from long, long ago). But the thing is that the track and grade geometry specifications of HSR, especially modern HSR, pretty much require engineering structures even in rolling terrain.

I agree, by the way, that HSR needs to first be provided internally before it can be externally. (Though the Scandinavian language barriers are quite limited and may therefore open larger international markets.)
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Old October 8th, 2015, 11:30 AM   #647
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Neither are the Appalachians (and these mountains are part of the same orogeny, from long, long ago). But the thing is that the track and grade geometry specifications of HSR, especially modern HSR, pretty much require engineering structures even in rolling terrain.
Agreed!

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I agree, by the way, that HSR needs to first be provided internally before it can be externally. (Though the Scandinavian language barriers are quite limited and may therefore open larger international markets.)
The borders aren't important at all here, really. The deciding factor is/should be expected passenger numbers (and the language barrier is very low since we all speak English as well anyway) and those are clearly higher for Gothenburg than for Oslo from Stockholm. However, that's based on travel patterns that have been created with current and past infra - all far more focused on the Gothenburg connect. Still, build it where there's a need and where the future need is the most clear. As a Stockholmer I want the Olso connection but I also see that the Copenhagen-Gothenburg-Oslo line (aka the west coast line) has more potential that's easier to unlock.
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Old October 8th, 2015, 12:23 PM   #648
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They are low enough that there are relatively few tunnels, mostly cut wedges in the hills to make straight and level motorways, and in principle rail, but the rail connections were made over a century ago and are neither straight nor level.

Of course the operative word is relative. Most routes to Oslo from Sweden would pass a handful tunnels on the way. But it is flat compared to e.g. a HSR route westward Oslo-Bergen which would be one long tunnel from leaving the Oslo region until the Bergen terminus. It would be a lot of lovely scenery to tunnel under, unlike today's overland train ride which is very scenic, but anything but high-speed.

In my view new rail along Oslo-Gothenburg and Oslo-Karlstad would be well-suited for viaducts (in places much more than 5 meters above ground, I'd suspect), but I fear the locals might not agree. Oslo-Karlstad would be less of a worry because there would be very few locals, and I think viaducts are more nature friendly (plants and animals may migrate under the pillars), but towards more civilised areas near Gothenburg is bound to find some protester.

Borders will matter less in the future than now, and matters less now than in the past when they were iron curtains, economically speaking (and why the non-coastal border areas on both sides are economically depressed).



If we ignored borders and geography for a moment and let us be ruled by the ruler:

Gothenburg is closer to Copenhagen and Oslo (230-250 km) than to Stockholm. Gothenburg-Stockholm and Stockholm-Helsinki are equidistant and practically on a straight line (400 km in both cases). Bergen-Oslo and Oslo-Stockholm are nearly equidistant (300 km/400 km) and practically on a straight line. Malmö-Oslo is equidistant to Malmö-Stockholm (500 km), Malmö-Oslo-Trondheim is nearly on a straight line and fairly equidistant (Trondheim is closer to Oslo at 400 km).

If in the future we were travelling at supersonic speed in perfectly straight levitating pneumatic tubes, it is fairly obvious where those tubes would go: Hamburg-Copenmalmö-Stockholm, Aalborg-Gothenburg-Stockholm-Turku-Helsinki, Copenmalmö-Gothenburg-Oslo-Trondheim, Bergen-Oslo-Stockholm-Riga.

Of course we're not in such a future, and though e.g. Gothenburg is much closer to Copenhagen and Oslo than to Stockholm, the traffic between city #1 and #2 in Sweden is going to remain much larger than Gothenburg and the two foreign capitals.

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Old October 9th, 2015, 11:36 PM   #649
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Pågatåg (commuter train) at Malmö C station:

Malmö C by Håkan Dahlström, on Flickr
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Old October 10th, 2015, 12:14 AM   #650
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Malmö C Nedre (Citytunneln):

Malmö C by Håkan Dahlström, on Flickr
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Old October 10th, 2015, 12:52 AM   #651
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Triangeln station in Malmö (almost exactly 5 years after Citytunneln was innaugurated)

Triangeln station S Johan's chruch trees at rear by Malcolm Payne, on Flickr

Station Triangeln by Håkan Dahlström, on Flickr

Station Triangeln by Håkan Dahlström, on Flickr

Triangeln South Level Two by Mabry Campbell, on Flickr

Triangeln Malmö by Sanja Matonickin, on Flickr

Triangeln Station, Malmö by Kristian Ohlsson, on Flickr
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Old October 10th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #652
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One of the longest projects in Swedish history are about to finish and not much are left to fix before the open ceremony in december. There will be a tunnel with higher capacity with 24 trains passing per hour the hallandsåsen with one track in each direction, compared today with 4 trains each hour and only one track to share above the tunnel.



http://www.trafikverket.se/hallandsas
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/.../ Boka redan nu in den 8 december.

Efter att i 23 år arbetat och levt med ett av Sveriges mest utmanande infrastrukturprojekt är vi stolta över att få öppna Hallandsåstunneln.

Dubbelspåret ökar kapaciteten från fyra tåg per timme till 24, höjer den möjliga godsvikten avsevärt och reducerar störningarna på Västkustbanan. Hallandsåstunneln kommer att betyda mycket för resenärer och näringsliv, lokalt, regionalt och nationellt/.../
http://www.trafikverket.se/nara-dig/...dsas-vecka-41/
Status in tunnel works:
Checking details and installing minor system and components.



http://www.trafikverket.se/nara-dig/...drift-med-tag/

Öresundstrains have been tested in their maximum speed 180km/h with no problem.
Pågatåg have been tested in their maximum speed 160km/h with no problem.
The tunnel itself are built for a maximum speed of 250km/h but the 200km/h is the maximum speed allowed for now.


The swedish trafikverket have recorded the trip from each direction in both tunnels and the videoclip is in normal playspeed so you may want to fastforward in the middle. But you can se at minut 3:50 for example how the train stops for a red signal inside the tunnel.

From Båstad to Förslöv:


From Förslöv to Båstad:


All seem to be ready for the opening in december.
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Old October 10th, 2015, 10:25 PM   #653
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Thanks for sharing! So if I understand correctly it took 23 year? That's indeed quite some time. How long is the tunnel and how much did it cost? Must be impressive numbers if it was such a pain to build.
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Old October 10th, 2015, 10:37 PM   #654
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Thanks for sharing! So if I understand correctly it took 23 year? That's indeed quite some time. How long is the tunnel and how much did it cost? Must be impressive numbers if it was such a pain to build.
It's a complicated story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallands%C3%A5s_Tunnel

Swedish posters can probably provide additional details...

Talking about the tunnel what is already known about it's operational impact? 24 tph is a capacity, but how many are actually going to run there next year? Any previously non-existing services? How will it improve travel times?
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Old October 10th, 2015, 10:40 PM   #655
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Thanks for sharing! So if I understand correctly it took 23 year? That's indeed quite some time. How long is the tunnel and how much did it cost? Must be impressive numbers if it was such a pain to build.
The project have been delayed because of wrong kind of drill and because of bad used chemical that had a negative impact on the enviroment, where poison was leaked.
The cost are estimated to land on 10,5 billion swedish kronor. That would be around ~1.1 billion euros.

It started in 1992 but got stopped on 1997 because of enviroment problems after which a third of the tunnel was opened. Between 1997-2003 the main focus was on "healing" the enviroment since they had used bad chemical product to stop water from flooding the tunnels. Between 2003 and 2005 they analized the terrain again for to continue working and in 2005 they started and after som changes in the type of drill it was finished last year. And since then works have been with laying the tracks.

The budget was 900 milion kronor before project started (divide with 9 to get in euros, ~).
But was raised to 1,2 billion kronor in 1992 and between 1992 and 2002 the state spent another 2.1 billion kronor on the project.
With the new start in in 2003 the project got a new budget on 8,4 billion kronor for the period 2003-2015.
The total cost land on 10,5 billion swedish kronor but I am not sure on how the previous budgetplans should be added to this total cost.


http://www.trafikverket.se/nara-dig/...n-och-kostnad/



I also found this other link where they have posted the historical notes from the project with years from each period when something major happened:

http://www.trafikverket.se/nara-dig/...ojekthistorik/
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Old October 10th, 2015, 10:52 PM   #656
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It's a complicated story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallands%C3%A5s_Tunnel

Swedish posters can probably provide additional details...

Talking about the tunnel what is already known about it's operational impact? 24 tph is a capacity, but how many are actually going to run there next year? Any previously non-existing services? How will it improve travel times?
Its a part of the west coast track and to increase capacity from Gothenburg to Malmo:



There will also be a possibility to increase the amount of freight train and double their capacity. Today you dont have many freight train taking that route and that is what will be most noticed. Between Helsingborg and Halmstad you will have two trains in each direction per hour. Then you will also have the SJ train from Guthenburg to Malmo that doesnt make stops at every station. And the old track used to be a bottleneck where trains had to stop and wait for eachother. And if one train was delayed it meant all train on that stretch could be delayed which will now be avoided. A trip from Gothenburg to Malmo will go 13 min faster now.

More people can also start working or study in cities on the other side of the ridge without the need to move.
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Old October 11th, 2015, 01:52 PM   #657
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Linköping Railway station- Yesterday


The sign says that construction of the highspeed railway to Stockholm is in progress


Linköping has several destinations for train travel.

To the North there are straight connections to:

Sala, Gävle -X12 & X50 Regina
Stockholm -X2000 express train & X40 regional doubledecker train.
Motala, Norrköping -X14 commuter train



Bombardier Regina X50 changes direction in Linköping with a X12 behind.

X2000 heading north for Stockholm. An Y2 Kustpilen is in the background. Photo taken october 6th.

Southbound there are 4 destinations:

Malmö/Copenhagen Österport with X2000
Kalmar, Västervik- Y2 Kustpilen, Y31 Itino

X2000 bound for Malmö. Recently they have cut the hedge here, so this is a new photo angle of the trains.


X2000 with final destination Copenhagen leaving Linköping at 16:01 yesterday. This is the only international destination from Linköping.

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Trains at Norrköping Railway station 2018-01-07

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Old October 12th, 2015, 10:23 PM   #658
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The sign says that construction of the highspeed railway to Stockholm is in progress
Perhaps, just some investigations of the geophysical conditions are ongoing. The construction process of the first high-speed railway line between Järna (Stockholm county) and Linköping (Ostlänken) is scheduled to start in year 2018. While many sections of the future HSR network are in the planning stage, negotiations with possible developers continue.
Sweden plans, plans, plans.. and plans, but, for example, the construction work of some HSR lines connecting the major urban areas in neighbouring Denmark is ongoin. Ok, the speed standard is a bit lower, but still, there is visible progress.
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Old October 13th, 2015, 02:06 AM   #659
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Trainspotting at Jonsered station which is close to Gothenburg:

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Old October 13th, 2015, 02:46 AM   #660
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Triangeln station in Malmö:

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