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Old August 2nd, 2016, 10:21 PM   #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
I think it is even worse than that - 1435 and 1520 mm gauges are too close
to build a 3-track section for them. Each time I have seen tracks for common
1435 and 1520 use, they were in fact 4-rail, gauntlet-like tracks. So it's not
50% more material but 100%, and a lot of added complexity for the switches.
Remember that rails and sleepers is just a small part of the cost. Stabilizing the ground, fundamenting, superstructure, catenaries, tunneling, bridges, retaining walls, stations and such is a much greater cost. But a line with four rails, instead of the normal two might need some more powerfull sleepers as the power four rails perform om the sleepers will be twice that of two rails when temperature increases or decreases in the steel. I think ballastless track will be appropriate.
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Old August 3rd, 2016, 04:37 PM   #762
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I was travelling between Norrköping, Öland and Karlskrona in july and it hit me that the infrastructure is very poor in this part of Sweden.

There is almost no freeways and the only rail you have is from the inland regions towards the coast.

Considering Sweden spends alot of money to connect the northern coast which has quite few inhabitants, it's strange that Norrköping, Söderköping, Valdemarsvik, Västervik, Oskarshamn, Kalmar & Karlskrona isn't connected. Some of these are major residential areas and important harbours.
Via Karlskrona it is close to the continent and north of Norrköping is Stockholm.

Has there ever been a project to connect the coast with better infrastructure?
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Old August 5th, 2016, 10:31 AM   #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
I was travelling between Norrköping, Öland and Karlskrona in july and it hit me that the infrastructure is very poor in this part of Sweden.

There is almost no freeways and the only rail you have is from the inland regions towards the coast.

Considering Sweden spends alot of money to connect the northern coast which has quite few inhabitants, it's strange that Norrköping, Söderköping, Valdemarsvik, Västervik, Oskarshamn, Kalmar & Karlskrona isn't connected. Some of these are major residential areas and important harbours.
Via Karlskrona it is close to the continent and north of Norrköping is Stockholm.

Has there ever been a project to connect the coast with better infrastructure?
This region is sparsely populated and the geography has made it difficult to connect the cities directly via rail.

The railway from Linköping to Västervik/Kalmar has had a lot of issues the latest years. Trains are regularly cancelled and replaced with buses resulting in poor reliability.

The future of this railway is uncertain, the tracks are in poor condition and the railway itself needs an urgent renovation. There is a debate going on wether it's worth to invest money in this railway.


An Y31 railbus at Åtvidaberg station

Åtvidaberg is a small "rustbelt" city along the railway Linköping-Västervik.

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Old August 5th, 2016, 02:23 PM   #764
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Why would the cities along the coast be difficult to build a railway and a highway?
If you can do it along the bottnian coast, you can do it here.

Sparsely populated?
Karlskrona, Kalmar, Oskarshamn, Västerik/Valdemarsvik & Söderköping/Norrköping isn't that sparsely populated.
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Old August 5th, 2016, 06:50 PM   #765
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Quote:
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Why would the cities along the coast be difficult to build a railway and a highway?
If you can do it along the bottnian coast, you can do it here.

Sparsely populated?
Karlskrona, Kalmar, Oskarshamn, Västerik/Valdemarsvik & Söderköping/Norrköping isn't that sparsely populated.
There is a proposal for a coastal railway Linköping-Västervik Oskarshamn Kalmar-Karlskrona.

The Regional Council in Kalmar has initiated a study on a new rail link
from Kalmar along the coast up to Linköping, which will shorten the travel time by train to 1,5-2.5 hours, depending on performance and length.

Today the train Linköping-Kalmar via the Stångå-valley line takes just over 3 hours. The fastest connection is Linköping-Alvesta-Kalmar which is much longer but takes under 3 hours.
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Old August 9th, 2016, 10:03 PM   #766
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Överum

Överum is a locality with 1,203 inhabitants. It's situated in Västervik Municipality, Kalmar County, Sweden .








The railbus from Linköping to Västervik stops here.

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Old August 10th, 2016, 04:30 PM   #767
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Stockholm - Oslo ridership 39% in one year!

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=524
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Old August 10th, 2016, 05:49 PM   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1772 View Post
Why would the cities along the coast be difficult to build a railway and a highway?
If you can do it along the bottnian coast, you can do it here.

Sparsely populated?
Karlskrona, Kalmar, Oskarshamn, Västerik/Valdemarsvik & Söderköping/Norrköping isn't that sparsely populated.
It's not depopulated as the North of Sweden, but the South-East isn't as populated as the rest. Worse, I noticed, when making a map of towns and cities 20,000+ and 50,000+ in Scandinavia, they don't line up that well. Bad news for railroad. By contrast the towns and cities in the South-West line up really well.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 08:49 PM   #769
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Chosen design for new Jönköping Central/HSR station to be unveiled on saturday

Jönköpings nya knutpunkt











Bildkälla: Jönköpings Kommun, Svt.se

Södra Munksjön blir Jönköpings nya knutpunkt och kommer att bli en förlängning av stadskärnan[...]
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Old August 24th, 2016, 09:02 PM   #770
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Swedish high speed trains are the least punctual in Europe, and one of the least punctual in the world.

http://www.thelocal.se/20160824/swed...tual-in-europe

Only 66% of trains between Stockholm and Gothenburg arrive on time.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 09:10 PM   #771
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That's lousy in any case, but it's silly to call the current Sweden's long distance routes "high speed lines" and compare with dedicated routes elsewhere.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 09:22 PM   #772
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That's lousy in any case, but it's silly to call the current Sweden's long distance routes "high speed lines" and compare with dedicated routes elsewhere.
They call them high speed and price them accordingly. There is a premium price for taking an X2000 in Sweden, so why should they not be held to the same standards?

Unless they price them at the same point as the rest of the system, I believe they should be held to the same standards as elsewhere.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 09:55 PM   #773
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The primary stress point is Stockholm, which most trains must pass. I remember taking a train from Stockholm to Karlstad that left later than it should have arrived, and when Stockholm gets in trouble there isn't much "high speed". Citybanan should help a lot, at least move the stress points further out.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 10:03 PM   #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by :jax: View Post
The primary stress point is Stockholm, which most trains must pass. I remember taking a train from Stockholm to Karlstad that left later than it should have arrived, and when Stockholm gets in trouble there isn't much "high speed". Citybanan should help a lot, at least move the stress points further out.
Actually, the article highlights that poor infrastructure across the country and sharing with freight as well as knock-on delays and inability to pass slower trains ahead as being the primary reasons. Stockholm is definitely a bottleneck, but even if you clear that one, having shonky infrastructure elsewhere will still result in delays unfortunately.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 10:29 PM   #775
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They call them high speed and price them accordingly. There is a premium price for taking an X2000 in Sweden, so why should they not be held to the same standards?

Unless they price them at the same point as the rest of the system, I believe they should be held to the same standards as elsewhere.
If I now call Swedish climate tropical it doesn't make it so. I'm sure you know quite well that pricing is irrelevant to the definition of high speed rail. It's all about dedicated lines and speeds above 200 km/h.

Having said that I don't argue at all that they should be held to a higher standard than they are currently achieving.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 10:44 PM   #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
If I now call Swedish climate tropical it doesn't make it so. I'm sure you know quite well that pricing is irrelevant to the definition of high speed rail. It's all about dedicated lines and speeds above 200 km/h.

Having said that I don't argue at all that they should be held to a higher standard than they are currently achieving.
The X2000 is 200km/h and can travel up to 205km/h in regular traffic. If you require segregated lines, then the German ICE is not HSR either, then except for a few sections. The Swedish system is actually regarded as HSR according to standard definitions. It's a poor mans HSR, but HSR it is.

Quote:
The International Union of Railways (UIC) identifies three categories of high-speed rail:

Category I - New tracks specially constructed for high speeds, allowing a maximum running speed of at least 250 km/h (155 mph).
Category II - Existing tracks specially upgraded for high speeds, allowing a maximum running speed of at least 200 km/h (124 mph).
Category III - Existing tracks specially upgraded for high speeds, allowing a maximum running speed of at least 200 km/h (124 mph), but with some sections having a lower allowable speed (for example due to topographic constraints, or passage through urban areas).
The Category III is Sweden largely.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Sweden

Last edited by Svartmetall; August 24th, 2016 at 10:51 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 11:12 PM   #777
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Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
The X2000 is 200km/h and can travel up to 205km/h in regular traffic. If you require segregated lines, then the German ICE is not HSR either, then except for a few sections. The Swedish system is actually regarded as HSR according to standard definitions. It's a poor mans HSR, but HSR it is.
That is certainly so. ICE or TGV is a type of train which is capable of being high speed, but only when it's running on high speed lines. I sometimes take ICE from Basel to Zurich or Freiburg. Very good train, I like it better than the Swiss ones, but there is nothing high speed about it on those stretches.

I've seen the map you posted before of course and strictly technically you are right, but really who ever talks about Swedish or Finnish high speed trains? If you actually go on and build the long talked about Stockholm-Jonkoping-Gothenburg dedicated line then it will be another story.

By the way punctuality of long distance ICE network is nothing to write home about either. Seems to be getting worse over the years as well...
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Old August 24th, 2016, 11:30 PM   #778
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Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
They call them high speed and price them accordingly. There is a premium price for taking an X2000 in Sweden, so why should they not be held to the same standards?

Unless they price them at the same point as the rest of the system, I believe they should be held to the same standards as elsewhere.
That is not entirely correct.
In Swedish we make distinction between 'snabbtåg' (fast train/s) and 'höghastighetståg' (HSR). We call X2000 snabbtåg since its designated top speed is less than 250 km/h. We haven't got any true HSR trains. Those will come with the Ostlänken project.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 11:41 PM   #779
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That is not entirely correct.
In Swedish we make distinction between 'snabbtåg' (fast train/s) and 'höghastighetståg' (HSR). We call X2000 snabbtåg since its designated top speed is less than 250 km/h. We haven't got any true HSR trains. Those will come with the Ostlänken project.
Then that ignores the UIC definition of HSR. It's not category I, but it is category II/III HSR. Sweden has an arbitrary definition that doesn't necessarily mesh with what is "technically" regarded as HSR as Sunfuns and I were discussing, but this is a technicality. What lilla svenskarna term their railway is less important to me than a more harmonised international definition. The term snabbtåg and höghastighetståg are, let's face it, for many interchangable. I doubt you'll find people calling the X50 "höghastighetståg" simply because it's a mouthful even if it did run at 250km/h on the Botniabanan.

Additionally, this doesn't excuse the fact that SJ charges extra for its "premium" service that costs rather a lot for a rather terrible service. Only 2/3 of trains on time? How can you justify charging extra for that?

Last edited by Svartmetall; August 25th, 2016 at 11:41 AM.
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Old September 6th, 2016, 07:37 AM   #780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
Swedish high speed trains are the least punctual in Europe, and one of the least punctual in the world.

http://www.thelocal.se/20160824/swed...tual-in-europe

Only 66% of trains between Stockholm and Gothenburg arrive on time.

Deregulation of the railway maintenance
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