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Old September 10th, 2013, 10:44 PM   #121
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It's great to see the final breakthrough on this tunnel. The idea of freezing the ground ahead to allow boring was a good one I thought.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 07:29 AM   #122
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When they started planning the project I wasn't even born. When they started construction I was in middle school. When they are now planning on being done my nephew will be close to starting high school.

Today train services Köbenhavn-Malmö-Göteborg(-Oslo) suck. When Hallandsåstunneln opens it'll be possible to run actual inter-city trains and not just regional trains that sometimes go all the way Göteborg-Köbenhavn.
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Old November 17th, 2013, 03:07 AM   #123
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Next year (most likely, at the end of summer) MTR will launch "MTR Express" between Stockholm and Gothenburg with 15 departures every day which will contribute to the existing railway traffic between the cities.
The trains operated in the line will be specially designed Stadler Flirts (already being produced):

(c) mtrexpress.se


More information: MTR Express,
http://www.stadlerrail.com/en/news/2...ns-for-sweden/.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 07:50 PM   #124
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They are using a very similar front design to that of NSB Flirt sets, aren't they?
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Old November 18th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #125
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I think it's the new standard design that respect TSI norms, unlike the previous one. Also the KISS use this design.
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Old November 19th, 2013, 12:35 AM   #126
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Is that not going to significantly increase congestion in Stockholm, at least until the city line comes into operation?
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Old November 19th, 2013, 07:28 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
They are using a very similar front design to that of NSB Flirt sets, aren't they?
I wouldn't be surprised if they were more or less identical to the NSB Flirts. It would make sense, and would explain the quick delivery.
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Old November 24th, 2013, 04:00 PM   #128
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Hi.
Tel me /if somebody know/, if Inlandsbanan /part Mora - Sveg/ is in used?
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Old November 25th, 2013, 10:45 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaciekP. View Post
Hi.
Tel me /if somebody know/, if Inlandsbanan /part Mora - Sveg/ is in used?
It is
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 03:43 AM   #130
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SJ has announced that they'll suspend the night train between Stockholm and Malmö from 1st of April 2014 (sorry that it's a Swedish link only, but the company hasn't even announced the news on their web site):
SvT


This means that the only night trains remaining in Sweden will be northern bound traffic from Stockholm (Boden/Luleå, Kiruna), seasonal traffic to ski resorts in the north (Åre, Riksgränsen) as well as summer season Malmö - Berlin.


My comment: SJ will do their part for the on-going envoirnmental disaster by shutting down the service that could get you to the capital in the morning from the south, thus flight traffic will certainly increase. No wonder they suspend a line they've never marketed or made any effort to improve on, never advertised and so on. The classical vicious cycle.
Last time I used it I went from Malmö to Stockholm and the train got packed after Lund, the first stop after Malmö so I fail to see the reasoning that there isn't a market for this relation.
There's so much they could improve with this service, such as inform people that they can remain on their train until 07.00 AM (the train arrives at 05.45, which is also what is printed on your ticket). One of many small but crucial steps and advantages with the night train SJ so far has failed to use.


However, on a funnier note Hitler has also discovered what is going to happen:

Last edited by Grotlaufen; December 22nd, 2013 at 03:52 AM.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 08:01 AM   #131
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Some traditional ways of train travel became unpopular, as it seems. Some years ago I took the night train from Malmö to Stockholm, a pleasant ride. Then it was the only way to arrive in Stockholm early enough to get on time to the harbour and continue on board of the day-time ferry to Åbo/Turku. Certainly much more complicated than a flight, but do we always need to be in a hurry?

I didn't even notice that the night trains between Stockholm and Oslo are also history now, perhaps many years already?
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 03:55 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eu01 View Post

I didn't even notice that the night trains between Stockholm and Oslo are also history now, perhaps many years already?
Exactly! They've never marketed the product, and I know some people who already thought night trains had ceased their operation in Sweden.
This story is a reminder of how railway traffic in many parts were handled between 1950-1980, with cuts in advertising (soon people won't know this service exists, no one informs there's such a service when you contact the company etc), service on board as well as on station etc. are all down-sized and soon enough a total suspension is "inevitable" due to low demand...


In my opinion night train traffic could have a bright future. You can spend a whole evening somewhere (going to a concert, having a dinner with your family, attend a meeting etc), then board the train late in the evening which takes you to your destination 600-1000 kms away in the morning, no need for hotel bookings or pesky morning flights etc. You get to your destination early in the morning to attend a meeting or for work, then board a evening train back to your city. Sadly Sweden isn't alone in dismantling its night train service, just look at the international Eurocity nighttrains below...


Eurocity network, 1987

Eurocity network, 2010


(As for your question, the night service Stockholm-Oslo was discontinued in early 00's, then there've been several attempts to revive the line but none have so-far been successful)
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 04:36 PM   #133
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I suspect many of those night trains were losing money (without subsidies) even when 80-90% full. Capacity is much reduced compared to day train, access charges to foreign networks have increased substantially, night operations interfere with track maintenance and of course we shouldn't forget competition from cheap flights.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 12:40 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotlaufen View Post

Eurocity network, 1987

Eurocity network, 2010
The image is however slightly misleading, there are night trains both in France, Italy and Spain, they're just not part of the EuroNight network. Some useful links have disappeared, much to the reasons you mention, but there's still a good service for most travellers.

But ofcourse, to change the slow decline there need to be a turnaround in how night trains are valued.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 08:58 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eu01 View Post
Some traditional ways of train travel became unpopular, as it seems. Some years ago I took the night train from Malmö to Stockholm, a pleasant ride.
I used the night train Stockholm-Malmö once in 1993. I think it's too short of a distance for a night service, the trip takes about 5-6 hours so you feel too stressed to go to bed and hardly get enough sleep, especially not if you get on the train after Stockholm. As I remember there were couchettes only on this train.

In the 1960's there was even a night train Stockholm-Göteborg.

A real night train takes at least 10 hours. I went Copenhagen-Cologne/Munich/Basel and those trains have more options of comfort and you get enough time to sleep.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 10:13 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I used the night train Stockholm-Malmö once in 1993. I think it's too short of a distance for a night service, the trip takes about 5-6 hours so you feel too stressed to go to bed and hardly get enough sleep, especially not if you get on the train after Stockholm. As I remember there were couchettes only on this train.

I might have agreed with your view, given they'd tried. But: They (SJ) haven't, ever seen an ad from SJ for the night train? It's not they lack resources for an advert campaign or resources to improve the service. This is what makes me really mad about this issue because it's so similar to the fate of many railway passenger lines between 1950-1980's.


An important point to stress out is that speed doesn't matter to that large degree when it comes to night trains, as time flies under covers. Due to freight traffic being most intense during the night at this main line (Södra stambanan), speed really isn't a problem even if limited to 100-120 kph. Plus, as pointed out, SJ doesn't even inform you that you can stay until 07.00 when the train arrives at 05.45. Wouldn't it be great to arrive early at the station (say you want to be early in Uppsala instead of Stockholm) but given the choice to stay longer in bed if possible?


From 1st of April the choice for those who'll have to attend a morning meeting in Stockholm/Öresund area will be a. Flying b. Take the last train the day before and book a hotel room for the night (expensive, and you miss something you could've done the evening the day before). With the current schedule, the first train from Malmö/Stockholm arrives at around 11.00 (10.47 according to sj.se ) which is way too late for morning meetings or most jobs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jonasry
The image is however slightly misleading, there are night trains both in France, Italy and Spain, they're just not part of the EuroNight network.
A fact pointed out in my last post, hence the label "international".
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Old December 24th, 2013, 01:56 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotlaufen View Post
A fact pointed out in my last post, hence the label "international".
But there's international lines not included in that map either. But it's just a minor issue. Point is night trans are in decline.

Also, I used the Malmö-Stockholm night train last year, it's quite nice when travellering in sleeping car. And if you board around 10 PM you'll get atleast seven hours of sleep.
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Old December 24th, 2013, 02:46 PM   #138
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Night trains are usually unprofitable and are becoming more expensive to run. They also face inscreased competition from faster daytime services (why travel 12h at night if you can travel 4h at daytime on a high-speed rail).

There are also operational issues. I'm not sure whether this is the case in Sweden or not, but work-safety regulations are becoming more stringent, leading to the practice of shutting down whole railway sectors for maintenance and repairs instead of allowing them to operate under speed restrictions etc. This has just been enacted as official regulation in Netherlands, for instance: on a 2-track railway, you can't keep one open and have active work sites on the other with people moving around the tracks, the cantenary, the poles, the switches...
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Old December 24th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotlaufen View Post
Exactly! They've never marketed the product, and I know some people who already thought night trains had ceased their operation in Sweden.
This story is a reminder of how railway traffic in many parts were handled between 1950-1980, with cuts in advertising (soon people won't know this service exists, no one informs there's such a service when you contact the company etc), service on board as well as on station etc. are all down-sized and soon enough a total suspension is "inevitable" due to low demand...


In my opinion night train traffic could have a bright future. You can spend a whole evening somewhere (going to a concert, having a dinner with your family, attend a meeting etc), then board the train late in the evening which takes you to your destination 600-1000 kms away in the morning, no need for hotel bookings or pesky morning flights etc. You get to your destination early in the morning to attend a meeting or for work, then board a evening train back to your city. Sadly Sweden isn't alone in dismantling its night train service, just look at the international Eurocity nighttrains below...
Sorry, I don't get the point behind these maps. Could you explain the colours, please?

Eurocity-trains are usually daytime trains. If you want to show the decline of night trains, you should display all night trains, but just night trains.

Regarding the decline of the Eurcity-network: Mostly that was no decline, as many Eurocity-trains have been replaced by faster high-speed-trains. So these international connections still exist (often they are served more frequent nowadays).
However some long direct Eurocity-trains (like Vienna - Rome, Prague - Paris) have been replaced by other services on shorter distances, meaning that nowadays such trips require a change of trains.


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Old January 3rd, 2014, 12:05 AM   #140
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Back from the holidays!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nachalnik View Post
Sorry, I don't get the point behind these maps. Could you explain the colours, please?

Eurocity-trains are usually daytime trains. If you want to show the decline of night trains, you should display all night trains, but just night trains.
As far as the Eurocity network, I am well aware of that fact (but could have stressed that point in a clear, conciese way). The maps are from an article on lowtechmagazine.com. The article including the maps is available below ("Highspeed trains are killing the European railway network"), my piece of advice to you is to read the piece throughout. It covers the rest of your arguments as well:
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/...y-network.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
Night trains are usually unprofitable and are becoming more expensive to run. They also face inscreased competition from faster daytime services (why travel 12h at night if you can travel 4h at daytime on a high-speed rail).
Point being you can be at a dinner, concert, meeting/whatever until well late in the evening (22.00-midnight), go to the station late in the evening or well into the night, board a train with a comfy compartment with a comfy bed, show your ticket once aboard, take a sleep, wake up and go straight to a morning meeting/work/another appointment early in the morning at your destination (07.00-09.00).

Beats morning flights anyday, in my world. If interested, take a peek into the article I linked above in my answer to nachalnik and study it (incl. its commentaries) carefully.

Quote:
There are also operational issues. I'm not sure whether this is the case in Sweden or not, but work-safety regulations are becoming more stringent, leading to the practice of shutting down whole railway sectors for maintenance and repairs instead of allowing them to operate under speed restrictions etc. This has just been enacted as official regulation in Netherlands, for instance: on a 2-track railway, you can't keep one open and have active work sites on the other with people moving around the tracks, the cantenary, the poles, the switches...
Well, workhour incl. safety regulations are nothing new in history of mankind nor in the department of transport. I fail to see how this should effect night train traffic in a larger perspective given there is this institution called compromise and negotiation.
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