Elected Mayor for Liverpool

[Pobbie]

Originally Posted by Evertonian

I have always believed that Liverpool should be a city on two banks of a river, with as much cross river traffic and ties as exists in other major world citites based on rivers.

It should be easy and free to move between Liverpool and the Wirral by water, rail and road.

It currently isn't.

So you actually believe that there should be a city region encompassing both sides of the river, but because of issues you have with the status quo such an idea should be flatly rejected in favour of divergence? That just sounds like throwing in the towel to me - you can still believe in something whilst regretting the fact that obstacles exist which currently stop it happening.

By the way, I get the bus to and from Wallasey every day and pretty much every kid I've heard sounds scouse.

[Tony Sebo]

Originally Posted by Metrolink VI

Tony - breaking news - they were not built by the local authorities after the DfT had deemed them not to be suitable for central funding.

Maybe all authorities should spend what they like on whatever transport schemes they like, then, when the local authorities have no paid off the debt they should demand central government should pay the money off.

As with all estuary crossing they are tolled as the DfT does not deem them value for money and they do not meet their requirements to be built from central monies.

it is the principle that is wrong, not the minutae. The point about the tolls is that they are now perpetual thanks to the decision of central government to support the local transport wallahs to bleed tunnel users as an income stream, rather than the tolls being used for paying off the debt.

It is basically the same as the government deciding that when you buy a new car you should make the payments for ever, so the community can benifit from your owning the car.


Is there another example from as late as the 70s' where a city had to pay out of its own pocket for a major rivver crossing?

[Metrolink VI]

There was me thinking the decision to build the tunnels was a local one.

You either want devolution of powers and responsibilities our you don't.

To me you appear to want to make the decisions, but not take the responsibilities.

[Tony Sebo]

so many duffers think tghey have the adverserial skills of a Philadelphia lawyer!


Think through what you have written, look into the issue, then hang your head in embarrasment.

[JohnnyLeigh]

I understand people on the Wirral want to get rid of the tolls, but EVERY thread on here comes round to that argument, its getting really old.

Also, why should people from the other merseyside councils sympathise with people from the wirral when you got your post codes changed to disassociate from the rest of the merseyside? And whenever you argue for the toll to be dumped it always seems to be in a threatening, wirral doesnt need you, wirrals too good for you, blah blah kind of way

Personally I think the tolls should be kept ONLY if the money raised from them is spent on improving the public transport between the north and south banks of the river, ie underground rail or whatever.

But please, please stop bringing it up on every thread - after all, what the heck can we do about it? All it does is spread aggro

[Cherguevara]

Look guys, it doesn't matter what you say now, the loans need to be paid off somehow. Doesn't have to be tolls, but unless you've got a better idea than the government suddenly deciding that it owes Merseyside something then it isn't going to happen.

It's sad, but the city has bigger issues than moaning about a debt it can't get out of.

[Gareth]

The postcode change had little to do with the local people, contrary to myth and was an internal reform within the Royal Mail itself. Yes, some snobs were happy, but they weren't why it happened.

[Tony Sebo]

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

Look guys, it doesn't matter what you say now, the loans need to be paid off somehow. Doesn't have to be tolls, but unless you've got a better idea than the government suddenly deciding that it owes Merseyside something then it isn't going to happen.

It's sad, but the city has bigger issues than moaning about a debt it can't get out of.

this is an utterly inaccurate reading of the issue. The whole point is that people where happy to pay the tolls, whilst they where being used to pay the debt caused by the building of the two tunnel systems. The problem is when the government supported Mersytravel's plan to turn them into an incomestream, in perpetuity.

[Tony Sebo]

Yes... the posh part of Liverpool, or the shithole, chav capital of Cheshire... that's the image choice.

SSC is fucking up again, this is supposed to be in addition to Gareth's poiont about poscodes and snobbery.

[Metrolink VI]

Originally Posted by Tony Sebo

this is an utterly inaccurate reading of the issue. The whole point is that people where happy to pay the tolls, whilst they where being used to pay the debt caused by the building of the two tunnel systems. The problem is when the government supported Mersytravel's plan to turn them into an incomestream, in perpetuity.

So you do not wish devolution of decision making away from London to local elected councillors in Liverpool?

I thought you were one of the people in favour of devolution of powers?

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by Tony Sebo

this is an utterly inaccurate reading of the issue. The whole point is that people where happy to pay the tolls, whilst they where being used to pay the debt caused by the building of the two tunnel systems. The problem is when the government supported Mersytravel's plan to turn them into an incomestream, in perpetuity.

Well lobby your MPs and councillors and campaign for them to be changed back. This (for once) isn't the government's fuck up, it's yours.

I don't for a second believe that someone like for example Evertonian is happy to pay the tolls whether they be for debt repayment, transport revenue or a giant golden statue of John Lennon diving off the pier head.

[Evertonian]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLeigh

Also, why should people from the other merseyside councils sympathise with people from the wirral when you got your post codes changed to disassociate from the rest of the merseyside?

The postcodes were changed by the Post Office for reasons I have never understood.

But please, please stop bringing it up on every thread - after all, what the heck can we do about it? All it does is spread aggro

Collectively pay off the debts?

Should we delete the trams thread as well because theres nothing we can do about that being knocked back?

[Evertonian]

Originally Posted by Gareth

The postcode change had little to do with the local people, contrary to myth and was an internal reform within the Royal Mail itself. Yes, some snobs were happy, but they weren't why it happened.

Indeed.

Why penalise and think negatively of the people of East Wirral who feel as scouse as they come and would like closer ties to the city, but are held back for reasons we've already discussed.

A few people in Caldy and West kirkby were made up because their insurance payments based on the Cheshire postcode went down.

So what!?

[Gareth]

Originally Posted by Evertonian

The postcodes were changed by the Post Office for reasons I have never understood.

The reason they were changed was because the Royal Mail transferred the Wirral's head sorting office to be Chester and not Liverpool. It was, and still is, part of a long-term strategy to close Copperas Hill head sorting office. They were disuaded at the time to carry out the second and final part of this plan, that being, closing down the Liverpool head sorting office and putting the remaining 'L' postcode under Warrington's head sorting office, by the government and protests from local politicians. Sadly, it seems to be that this will finally happen in the next couple of years, leaving Liverpool, by far, the largest place in the UK that isn't home to a head sorting office.

[Evertonian]

Well thats an absolute disgrace.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by Gareth

The reason they were changed was because the Royal Mail transferred the Wirral's head sorting office to be Chester and not Liverpool. It was, and still is, part of a long-term strategy to close Copperas Hill head sorting office. They were disuaded at the time to carry out the second and final part of this plan, that being, closing down the Liverpool head sorting office and putting the remaining 'L' postcode under Warrington's head sorting office, by the government and protests from local politicians. Sadly, it seems to be that this will finally happen in the next couple of years, leaving Liverpool, by far, the largest place in the UK that isn't home to a head sorting office.

Is the L postcode going to disappear then, or will it be retained and secretly mean WA59 (or whatever)?

[Gareth]

I think it will be the latter scenario. Seen as people on the Wirral haven't been using the 'L' or a decade or so now, they can easily keep the remainder of 'L' as a phantom postal district of Warrington, so like you say, L8 would secretely mean, say, WA56, but people wouldn't be told this and would still be allowed to write 'L8' on their addresses.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by Gareth

I think it will be the latter scenario. Seen as people on the Wirral haven't been using the 'L' or a decade or so now, they can easily keep the remainder of 'L' as a phantom postal district of Warrington, so like you say, L8 would secretely mean, say, WA56, but people wouldn't be told this and would still be allowed to write 'L8' on their addresses.

Well at least that's something. Does seem a bit absurd for Liverpool not to have its own sorting office though but presumably it's the easiest cost saving to make. Sucks quite a bit though.

[Joe the red]

Three out of four are in favour of having an elected Mayor.

From DP

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...2534-25139699/

[BeeGee]

Originally Posted by Evertonian

The postcodes were changed by the Post Office for reasons I have never understood.




Collectively pay off the debts?

Should we delete the trams thread as well because theres nothing we can do about that being knocked back?

Evertonian - the postcodes were changed because the sorting of Wirral mail moved out of Coppras Hill in Liverpool and into Cheshire, I believe Warrington and Chester sorting offices.

See also the usual suspects spamming the tunnel tolls issue here as well - and not a word from me! Merseytravel must be delighted.